hello everyone, i apologise if this is in the wrong section but i wasnt sure where this belongs.
I currenty work full time for a company doing multi drop work, (only 12-20ish drops) and previously i didnt have to worry that i was going near my driving / working hours as my routes were quite small and managed to finish within 7-8 hours of actual work each day.
Well now my routes have changed and i alternate between 2. One is meant to be shorter to compensate for my longer one. Im yet to find out if we have an agreement to work over 10 hours, as this is an early morning start job but i am not 100% clear on how many hours i should be doing per week and per fortnight.
my working week is meant to be 48 hours, but i seem to occasionally run over this. for instance i did 53 hours last week on my longer route, and i think that this week ill be doing high 40’s on my shorter route!! what i need to know is, what is the maximum i am allowed to work per week and per rolling fortnight, and by which regulations do these originate.
I have started documenting and keeping everything i do and printing my digi tachos so i know exactly what is what. This i keep in a diary.
the most i drive a day is on my longest route which is sub 6hours! the hours i quote above are obviously inclusive of my 30minute wtd break or 45minute break if i know ill be doing over 4.5 hours driving each day!
the company dont really seem to bothered about making sure we stay totally legal, i.e. driving speeds, breaks etc… as long as the product gets delivered so i think its necessary i cover my back for obvious reasons! dont get me wrong, they dont encourage it, nor turn a blind eye to it, i guess they let the driver do his job as he sees fit, his licence at his risk.
any advice on what hours i should be adhering to per week and rolling fortnight would be greatly appreciated, i hope i have covered everything but not bored the socks off you guys! =)
If you are concerned about your hours then the tacho GURUs on this site can help you better if you can list them like this next example -
Sat off
Sun off
Mon 0600 - 1600 (6 Hours 15 Mins Driving + 3 hours Other Work + 45 Mins Break)
Tue 0600 - 1600 (4H 30M D + 4H 30M OW + 1H B)
Wed 0600 - 1600 (5H 45M D + 3H 30M OW + 45M B)
Thu 0600 - 1600 (5H 15M D + 4H OW + 45M B)
Fri 0600 - 1600 (4H 30M D + 4H 30M OW + 1H B)
Sat off
Sun off
toowise:
makes a change for someone to beat him to be first welcome message.
I cannot find the emoticon showing someone blowing a raspberry
spool:
my working week is meant to be 48 hours, but i seem to occasionally run over this. for instance i did 53 hours last week on my longer route
The 48 hours is an average over a fixed amoount of weeks - usually 17 but can be 26 with agreements.
The 48 hours does not include breaks and POA - it is only for driving & other work.
spool:
the most i drive a day is on my longest route which is sub 6hours! the hours i quote above are obviously inclusive of my 30minute wtd break
If your shift hours total over 9 hours of combined driving & other work then you need a total of 45 mins break for the RTD (WTD) - each break being a minimum of 15 mins and no period over 6 hours of combined driving & other work without taking a minimum 15 min break.
i think if i exclude my 45minutes break from my worked hours, my week would probably mean that the hours worked are less or equal (ish) to 48! our reference period is indeed 26 weeks - which in my opion is totally rediculous! i cant keep track of what day it is most of the time, let alone what hours i have worked over the previous 182 days and nights!!!
the route is identical everyday, and doesnt really change a great deal.
i start at 3am for both routes and its job and finish. i always have a minimum 30minutes if not 45.
route 1 would be something like 3am - 1230pm, 5.5 driving, between 3-4hours other work and 45 mins break.
route 2 would be something like 3am - 1030am, 3.5 driving, between 3-4hours other work and 30 mins break.
i cant really put the working times into a standard week sun - sat as i work a rolling week of 6days on and 2days off!
i need to keep an eye on things and review it when i got records for a longer period i think but lastly, does the 48hour weekly average base itself on a fixed week of sun-sat and if so how would it work with regard to my non fixed week!?
The RTD (WTD) week is the same as the tacho regs week - Mon 0000 to Sun 2400 BUT don’t worry about it - no-one seemes to check on it as it is too long winded to do so and IF they did then it wil be the EMPLOYERS who get it in the neck according to the site regs GURUs on here
ADD - see the post below
Just make sure you keep to the tacho regs and try not to go over 6 hours (driving & other work combined) with out a 15 min break - that is the easy one for anyone to spot - the breaks count for both tacho and RTD.
You seem to know the required tacho breaks etc so I will not attempt to go there
spool:
i cant keep track of what day it is most of the time, let alone what hours i have worked over the previous 182 days and nights!!!
That’s OK you don’t need to as you are an employed driver you don’t have to keep records, your company are responsible for keeping track.
spool:
does the 48hour weekly average base itself on a fixed week of sun-sat and if so how would it work with regard to my non fixed week!?
It is the fixed week and you will count the hours you work in each fixed week. so you may do a shift for instance Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, have your two days off and work Saturday and Sunday and your hours for that week will be those 5 shifts.
spool:
does the 48hour weekly average base itself on a fixed week of sun-sat and if so how would it work with regard to my non fixed week!?
It is the fixed week and you will count the hours you work in each fixed week. so you may do a shift for instance Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, have your two days off and work Saturday and Sunday and your hours for that week will be those 5 shifts.
Just to clarify:
You will notice that in Coffeeholic’s example the days worked in the week are Monday Tuesday Wednesday Saturday and Sunday, that’s because the fixed week in both the drivers hours regulations and the WTD is 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday and not Sunday to Saturday.
Coffeeholic:
That’s OK you don’t need to as you are an employed driver you don’t have to keep records, your company are responsible for keeping track.
Hi Neil can i ask you this then
in the RTD there is this bit
Employers must ask the mobile worker concerned in writing for an account of time worked
for another employer. The mobile worker must declare this information in writing and the
employer should keep this information.
if as a driver works say an agency and as we no some drivers have more than one there work for would it not be advisable to keep your own records for that quote above
if you old employer say as gone down the pan, how would you know, unless you keep a record just for that reason
when i started work there give me a letter to ask me how many hours i worked and what day did my reference date start but i had not worked so none for them
two days later there give me there date and said that there was only 5 week left on there’s and i would then start a new reference period and every week we were give a print out for are records with the hours we had work and the week it was how many weeks left and how many hours were left
Coffeeholic:
That’s OK you don’t need to as you are an employed driver you don’t have to keep records, your company are responsible for keeping track.
Hi Neil can i ask you this then
in the RTD there is this bit
Employers must ask the mobile worker concerned in writing for an account of time worked
for another employer. The mobile worker must declare this information in writing and the
employer should keep this information.
if as a driver works say an agency and as we no some drivers have more than one…
I knew when I was typing my reply you would be posting something because you hadn’t read my reply properly and sure enough I was right. Have another read and see if you can spot the bit where I wrote
…as you are an employed driver you don’t have to keep records…
So my reply was nothing to do with agency drivers eh? He also said he does 6 on and 2 off with no mention of a second driving job so I assumed he doesn’t work for anyone else and therefore my reply was also not aimed at people with more than one employer.
I answered his question as it applied to him and didn’t see the point in including stuff that wasn’t relevant to his situation, based on the information he supplied.
delboytwo:
…and every week we were give a print out for are records with the hours we had work and the week it was how many weeks left and how many hours were left
Well there you are then, you just backed up my answer. The company you worked for were keeping track and simply giving you the information, in much the same way they give you a payslip after working out your tax and NI deductions.
why do you have to be so nasty can’t i ask a question with out an sarcasm
Although most of the requirements for monitoring and keeping records lie with the employer,
both the mobile worker and employer share the responsibility for complying with the
Regulations. Both employer and mobile worker are potentially liable for prosecution if the
rules are systematically broken.
if your company does not follow the RTD or keep records how would you know how many you have done
Although most of the requirements for monitoring and keeping records lie with the employer,
both the mobile worker and employer share the responsibility for complying with the
Regulations. Both employer and mobile worker are potentially liable for prosecution if the
rules are systematically broken.
if your company does not follow the RTD or keep records how would you know how many you have done
Personally I think it’s a good idea for drivers to keep a record of their own working time but realise that not everyone would want to.
If you leave a company to go elsewhere you’re going to have a hard time keeping track of your working time without some form of record from your previous employer unless you have your own record.
Having said that no-one apart from the Eurocrats who dreamt up the idea really seems to give a ■■■■ about the 48 hour average week anyway unless the authorities have some reason to carry out extensive checks
Coffeeholic:
That’s OK you don’t need to as you are an employed driver you don’t have to keep records, your company are responsible for keeping track.
Hi Neil can i ask you this then
in the RTD there is this bit
Employers must ask the mobile worker concerned in writing for an account of time worked
for another employer. The mobile worker must declare this information in writing and the
employer should keep this information.
if as a driver works say an agency and as we no some drivers have more than one…
I knew when I was typing my reply you would be posting something because you hadn’t read my reply properly and sure enough I was right. Have another read and see if you can spot the bit where I wrote
…as you are an employed driver you don’t have to keep records…
So my reply was nothing to do with agency drivers eh? He also said he does 6 on and 2 off with no mention of a second driving job so I assumed he doesn’t work for anyone else and therefore my reply was also not aimed at people with more than one employer.
I answered his question as it applied to him and didn’t see the point in including stuff that wasn’t relevant to his situation, based on the information he supplied.
delboytwo:
…and every week we were give a print out for are records with the hours we had work and the week it was how many weeks left and how many hours were left
Well there you are then, you just backed up my answer. The company you worked for were keeping track and simply giving you the information, in much the same way they give you a payslip after working out your tax and NI deductions.
please note it was not directed at the posters question, i was asking you a question about keeping records
and if i am not mistaken agency drivers are employed by the agency or if there with two or more the would be employed with them as well so going on what i ask to you would it not be safe to keep records for just that purpose
working for more than one employer, so you can inform the relevant company of your hours at each agency so as a driver you do not work more than the required hours
looks like i have kicked off a little flurry of activity here!!!
thanks again - your help is appreciated!
i will though, for my own protection / interest / etc, keep my own records of the times i start and finish. the company do not provide us with a print out of the work we do. all that is done, is a download of our tachos at least once a month and then every, say, 6 months we will recieve data from the fta informing us if we have broken any tacho regs - most of these are drivers not taking 6 hourly breaks - which i take 30mins for, btw!!
I dont like the idea of relying on the company to ensure i am legal, after all, if i am stopped by vosa, id like to be able to clarify and know myself, exactly what position i am in!!
I got annoyed when i returned back to the yard today because just after i arrived back, quite a few others did too, but i know pretty much for certain that 95% of them will not have stopped all work and had the break they needed to within that shift. they will finish up, sign out and go home and my employer wont pull them up on it. this happens everyday i swear. it bugs me, but why should i care, as long as i am i guess!!!
