We need your help

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS EURO DRIVING FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

amethyst58
MEMBER

Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 2

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject: We Need Your Help.

Last night whilst watching the Prime Minister on the news, I thought why don’t we canvass the PM’s Office direct concerning the rights of our drivers being held in prisons abroad?

We have had petitions handed in to Downing Street, we’ve canvassed local MPs about named drivers (in our instance John Vasey), and we’ve organised demo days. Nevertheless, to date we have not yet contacted the PM direct concerning the plight of ALL drivers held in foreign prisons.

I took a look at the PM’s website last night and found, although they suggest that if your enquiry is personal and you want a reply you should write to the PM using snail mail, that “All e-mail messages are read and each month the Prime Minister receives a report on the issues raised, together with a representative sample of individual e-mails.”

Bearing this in mind, I thought that we should try to organise a mass e-mail appeal to the PM direct through the 10 Downing Street website. If every driver/courier takes the time to send an e-mail to the PM about the same topic and containing roughly the same comments, then it will be registered with the PM’s office that there is a lot of ill feeling concerning the way that our drivers are detained and held abroad for “Transportation and Importation”.

Therefore, I am asking now for everyone’s help, for ALL UK DRIVERS HELD IN FOREIGN PRISONS, in sending a mass e-mail containing roughly the following:

“Dear Mr Blair,

I would like to draw your attention to a problem concerning British citizens being held in prisons abroad.

There a large number of British truck drivers currently being held in foreign prisons, either having been charged and convicted with “Transportation and Importation” of illegal substances, or are currently on remand awaiting a trail and sentencing. It is a foregone conclusion in most cases that these prisoners will be found guilty and will face heavy gaol sentences and fines, even though most, if not all, strenuously deny any knowledge of the goods on their truck, or having committed any crime.

I urgently request your help to free these British citizens who are being wrongly detained in European prisons.

These people are in effect “POSTMEN”. They know that they have goods to transport but cannot check what is in the load because it is shrink wrapped and the recipient is within their rights to refuse the goods if the load has been opened. Would we prosecute a postman for delivering a letter bomb?? NO we wouldn’t, so why should these innocent men be prosecuted abroad for doing what is effectively the same job.

As far as I am aware, when these men are originally detained, there is a severe breach of their rights according to the Human Rights Act. They can be held for a number of days without any hot meals, facilities to wash, and access to a competent translator.

Please help.

Yours sincerely”

Here is a link to the 10 Downing Street website’s contact pages: number-10.gov.uk/output/Page821.asp. If you select “Transport and Railways” from the drop down menu and then type your message, we will be making a start.

Please help, every e-mail sent will help.

REMEMBER, THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU WORK ABROAD.

If we all remember that there are times when we need help, then maybe we’ll be more willing to give it to others when they need it from us.
■■■

2

keelman

Do you have any ojection to members ‘cut and pasting’ your example into their e-mails.

Jules

3

Jules,

No, not in the least. the more the better. But credit must go to
amethyst58 for the inspiration, but I know she will not object.

4

Sorry man,but would you got involved if your mate was,nt in perpignan nick,I hate to say this,but anyone of us could be in the same perdiciment as john but even after the fact the dope was found in is wagon,he was in posession,who do they charge?for sure not the big fish then again the big fish feed off the small fish,why do the french police pull anyone,and then go direct to the two pallets with the dope?sorry I do really understand whats going on with your mate,but as for trying TB, try banging your head on a wall it will be less painfull.

5

keelman:
These people are in effect “POSTMEN”

I have posted the following time and time again on here.

“Imprisoning the lorry driver for the drugs he unknowingly carries in his trailer is like imprisoning the postman for the letter-bomb he unknowingly carries in his mailbag”.

This is the point we must make again and again.

Perhaps this should be our campaign slogan?

Vince

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froggy

as i work in transport i would take notice as this could have happen to myself, i have now been stopped driving in europe due to this situation

7

e- mail sent.

every little helps.

andy

8

bigandy:
e- mail sent.

every little helps.

Me too.

Very poor arguement for doing nothing IMHO, Froggy.

9

E-mail sent. :slight_smile: Fingers crossed :wink:

10

Simon, whats a poor arguement,what did you do before this case?do,nt mean to go off on one but after reading all I can about what we are on about,the law(and now I will dip my big left toe in the water)in england and most other countries will point to the result as is,in genuine cases it,s really hard,for what bugs me is why are,nt the big fish nicked,nobody goes off on that one ,what does in this case 1800kg of dope cost and whats the profit,who,s kids are buying it,what are the french cops going to say ok on your way,do,nt think so,as for the nick in perpignan,how many brits are in there,I would think with about half a dozen in there the brit embassy would or maybe should know whats going on.

11

For Once I am in whole hearted agreement with Vince :open_mouth: something which Vince himself will admit is an extremely rare event :laughing:

but

At the present time there are a number of lorry drivers detained throughout Europe and unfortunately no one appears to have any exact figures and among these, a significant number have of these have been jailed for involvement in crimes of traffic of forbidden substances, even when in most of these occasions, the transport of these substances has obviously taken place with the total ignorance of the driver.
The driver is then accused of importing illegal substances a charge against which he has absolutely no defence as there is no provision within the charge diffentiating between knowingly and unknowingly thereby automatically presuming guilt on the part of the driver and denying him of his basic human right of presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

In many occasions the driver has only been detained and prosecuted in order to either

  1. Boost the crimes solved figures for the area concerned.

  2. To save the costs that would be involved in initiating an international investigation in order to ascertain and apprehend the real culprits.

In this context it must be remembered that in practice it is impossible and unreasonable to expect the driver to verify the contents of everything that is placed within placed in his vehicle as it is usually packaged and palletised. Any attempt to control the contents of every item that is loaded would take a vast amount of time and the economic consequences of this would make the journey an unviable proposition , this apart from the fact that if the driver were to insist on controlling the contents of the merchandise he would not be loaded as the company where he is loading is certainly not going to allow him to unpack everything that they have just finished packing. It must be stated here that at no time does the driver participate in the packaging of merchandise this is carried out by the warehousing staff of the company at which he loads and it is at this point where unscrupulous persons have the opportunity to place whatever they wish within the packaging.

Under present laws the responsibility concerning the contents of the goods carried is placed upon the driver even though in practice the driver does not have the means or possibility to control the contents surely these responsibilities should be placed upon the people who carry out the packaging operation, it must be realised that many drivers have been jailed when illegal substances have been found within previously packaged goods even though though these have shown no outward signs of tampering or of having been opened without which the driver could not have placed anything inside. It must also be remembered that the commercial operation of transport involves transporting other peoples previously packed goods from one place to another.
Another aspect which must be considered is that of the introduction of illegal merchandise and even of people on parking areas as the driver as the driver is resting there are various points here which must be considered so as to explain as to why the driver can not always realise that this has taken place.

  1. A driver becomes so used to the vehicle moving and swaying as he sleeps that he will not notice the slight movement as anyone enters or interferes with the vehicle.

  2. These people in most cases are not alone and generally have assistance from others who with due the course of time have become experts at tampering with vehicle seals to such an extent that it is extremely difficult for the driver to notice this especially in darkness or by inclement weather.

It should be made possible for drivers to voluntarily undergo inspection free of charge at border crosiings and other places where customs officials are present and thereafter be issued with a certificate stating that the inspection has taken place and that this certificate should be recognised as a valid and official document throughout the whole of the European Community.

In the case of a driver being detained in a country which is not his own certain european wide regulations or standards must be applied such as.

a) The basic human right to presumption of innocence, something which is not considered under present conditions.

b) Immediate notification of consular authorities so that either an officially recognised translator or legal assistance in his own language can be provided before any kind of interview or interrogation place some thing which seldom happens at present.

The reasons for the above proposals are due to the fact that upon detention one of the major difficulties to be encountered are of a linguistic nature which in many cases lead to a driver being kept in ignorance of his rights and of any implications that may arise from inadequately understood statements. In many cases the standard of locally provided translation leaves a lot to be desired and there have been several cases of incorrect translation both wilfully and unwilfully therefore there should be some kind of internationally accepted minimum standards/qualification and a list of lawyers who speak foreign languages should be compiled and readily made available immediately upon detention.

c) A detained driver should also have the right to immediately inform his family and employer of his detention so that mechanisms can initiated to arrange his defence and also to save families the anquish of not knowing where they are for several days at a time.

In many cases local authorities abuse the of conditional prison in the case of professional drivers for the simple reason of their being foreigners a concept that loses validity when we consider the fact that we are all supposed to be citizens of the European Union.

Another frequent problem is that in the case of professional drivers being detained abroad is that of fines imposed by the customs authorities in addition to any other charges that they may be accused of, these fines in many cases are of astronomical proportions and the lack of means of paying them usually leads to a further period of detention as well impeding the drivers possibility of gaining conditional release or applying to complete the sentence in his own country.

In many countries once you have been sentenced to penal imprisonment this also implies expulsion from the country on completion of the sentence either for life or for a considerable period of time which obviously means that the driver cannot return to his profession of international driver once he has been released due to the fact of being unable to circulate freely within the European Union something that is considered to be one of the fundamental groundstones of the European Union.

Remember this is something that could easily affect ANY ONE of us at any time during the course of a normal working day and is something that needs to be changed and to do this we need YOUR help.

12

I sent the e-mail, hope it has some effect, although I doubt whether this or any other government has any interest at all in drivers welfare.

Several points:

Is it not true that if a driver has signed his CMR ‘goods not checked’, then he is legally not liable for the load, and although he may be banged up until a lawyer has a look at his problem, basically with a signed CMR he cannot be prosecuted? I really thought that safeguard was effective.

Last year I worked for a UK firm doing mostly Italy.
Company rules are that all trailers must be sealed, whether loaded or not. Fridge trailer drivers are also issued with giant heavy-duty padlocks. If you have a signed ‘not checked by driver’ CMR and a seal and/or padlock, even a bent Italian is going to have a hard job making a claim stick.

I also have to point out that I came across a surprisingly large number of drivers (from all over Europe, not just Brits) happily puffing wacky baccy.
This is asking for trouble.

13

[
Is it not true that if a driver has signed his CMR ‘goods not checked’, then he is legally not liable for the load, and although he may be banged up until a lawyer has a look at his problem, basically with a signed CMR he cannot be prosecuted? I really thought that safeguard was effective.

Pete,

The charge in France it not all of Europe is “Importation and Transportation”.

If the driver crossed the border with it he imported it, if he was driving the vehicle when it was stopped he transported it.

And as they take very little notice of the Human Rights Act or bother to inform the Spanish or UK Customs what they have found and instigate an investigation I doubt if they would take notice of “Goods not checked” on a CMR

14

I went and read through John Vasey’s case after posting here the other day. Strewth!!! What a nightmare. Poor sod. I hope he gets out soon.
I used to live 80 kms from Perpignan, and that part of the world is a viper’s nest of corruption. The whole of the South of France is, really, by English standards. The firm I worked for used to send all of us out of town on the day that the ministry came to inspect the tachos so he could wine and dine and bung in peace and quiet. We never had a pull in all the years I worked for him, no-one ever had so much as a parking ticket, and we ran bent as a nine-bob note. Our mechanics used to do all the car servicing for both the local cops and the ministry men, who’d come and collect their cars at the end of the weekend and find them loaded with wine, cheese, smoked sausage and the rest of it.

All I know is that lawyers and courts don’t listen to verbal opinions or interpretations, they look at pieces of paper. (Well, apart from Lord Hutton, that is).
I was trained to always always make sure I had a signed correctly-filled in CMR showing the state of the load I was carrying. And to always seal a trailer. It’s then down to having a decent lawyer, if you get unjustly banged up. And never, ever sign anything, at any time, no matter what they say.

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PeteLeTroquaire:
Is it not true that if a driver has signed his CMR ‘goods not checked’, then he is legally not liable for the load, and although he may be banged up until a lawyer has a look at his problem, basically with a signed CMR he cannot be prosecuted? I really thought that safeguard was effective.

Not in France it seems. I was stopped a few weeks ago at the Abbeville Peage by customs for a ‘routine’ check. I have had a stamp made up with my name and the words “driver not present for loading, quantity and quality not confirmed” and had stamped all CMR’s.

The French Customs asked me what this meant and after I explained they seemed rather puzzled that I was not responsible for what was loaded. He told me that I was legally liable for all and any goods on the trailer, regardless of any caveats on the paperwork.

John.

16

A while ago I took the french fcos and during that course it became clear that the french expect drivers to supervise there load because the driver is responsable for load,maybe this could be why they were confused.We all know when it comes to loading sometimes your told to wait in the cab.

17

I wonder what the RHA has to say about this. It’s plainly ridiculous to expect a driver to open every carton loaded on his trailer.
There is a difference between ‘supervise the loading’ and ‘supervise the load’. “Loading” means making sure the load is safe and secure. “Load” means the contents of the trailer. I wonder what the French law actually states.
I was told, but this was ages ago, when I was learning the ins and outs of European driving, that a seal and a signed ‘not checked by driver’ CMR was a legally accepted way of absolving a driver from complicity in an offence of having prohibited substances of any sort on the trailer he was pulling.

18

the may be we as in the transport industry should go the same way as the air cargo industry after all is a 747 freighter aircraft not just a kin great wagon with wings and the skipper what is he if not the driver :question: :question:
air cargo is tracked from point a to point d via b and c. anyone who was handled a pallet or box of cargo signs a sheet that goes with the docs, so if a pallet goes from aviances warehouse at stansted airport to plane handlings at narita in japan, they know who x-rayed it, who accepted it in the warehouse, who drove the forks to build the pallet and who loaded on the aircraft and the reverse will happen at the other end in every destination.
so if there is a problem who ever has handled the problem package is made known then who ever is accountable for the problem will be found out and made to accept what punishment is due :exclamation:
track the people concerned with who packed, who loaded, name signature legally binding cert europe wide regonised including the frence :unamused:
could this be cure for the problem, lets call it accountabilty :wink:
chris

19

I wrote to the RHA last week.
“Hello
I wonder if you know where it is possible to get hold of a copy of the French law or laws concerning a driver’s responsibility for the load he is carrying.
French police insist that drivers are responsible both for the state of the load and the contents of the load, and they say it is irrelevant whether or not there is a CMR with a stamp saying ‘quantity and quality not checked by driver’.
I drive freight vehicles regularly throughout Europe and I am worried that I may be held responsible for loads that I have been unable to supervise. And in any case it is absurd to expect a driver to open every package in a load of 20 tons of groupage.
Where can I obtain further information on this subject please?”

They replied this morning, including a fax from the British Embassy in Paris. Very quick service.

The reply:
“Dear Peter
I asked our colleague in the British Embassy in Paris if she could forward information to us.
Please see that attached
Basically the driver is held responsible. This is why there are problems with smuggling issue etc on load.”

The attached document referred to mentions only the drivers’ resposibility for loss or damage, not unwitting transport of illegal substances.
So I’ve asked them if they would point me towards the relevant section of the French Law code.

My reply:
"Thank you very much for the prompt reply and the accompanying documentation.
The laws quoted state that the driver is responsible for loss or damage to goods in transit.
Which laws relate to the importation and transportation of illegal substances?

The problems we drivers face are neither loss nor damage, other than the loss of our vehicles, our freedom, and the damage to our reputations.
The principal problem is that drivers are the unwitting fall guys for smugglers.
The law in France as it stands means that the smuggler has only the value of the forbidden substances to lose, whereas the innocent driver is guaranteed to take the fall.
In many cases, when loading, drivers are forbidden to enter the loading warehouse, and drivers are certainly not permitted to open shrink-wrapped pallets of what purport to be electronics, for example.
Any attempt by a driver to do so would mean the freight agent or shipping company rapidly complaining to his boss and a probable loss of repeat work.
It is completely ridiculous to expect a driver to visually inspect a full load of groupage that could entail thousands of individual packages from multiple senders to multiple destinations.
If I understand the state of affairs correctly, should anything illegal be found on a trailer travelling through France then a driver is guilty no matter what the mitigating circumstances?
Regards
Peter

I for one, will never accept a load in Spain again without opening every package, and if the boss doesn’t like it, I’ll get another job going somewhere else.

Cui bono; follow the money. Is anyone trying to find out who is responsible for these unfair arrests?

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Just quick word ,never thought of getting in touch with the brit embass mainly because I did,nt think it would get me nowhere,but to put them on the spot and see if they come up with anything,well we wait and see,I was once hold in a goal on the tunisian/algerian border and thought that the embassy was a waste of time,its about time thet earned their money.