Hi guys, just wondering ways of checking if im overloaded on a morning, without obviously going on a weighbridge as we dont have one.
Ive heard the method of the smily face on the back axle, if its sad ya in trouble sort of thing?
So just wondering really, its an 18tonner any advice would be much appriciated, even a video of someone walking around a lorry showing? ive tryed searching but to no avail. 
Thanks in advance
Trucker beads:
Hi guys, just wondering ways of checking if im overloaded on a morning, without obviously going on a weighbridge as we dont have one.Ive heard the method of the smily face on the back axle, if its sad ya in trouble sort of thing?
So just wondering really, its an 18tonner any advice would be much appriciated, even a video of someone walking around a lorry showing? ive tryed searching but to no avail.Thanks in advance
Hi Trucker beads, Iâm sorry to be the bearer of bad news mate, but IIRC the offence of overloading is an âabsoluteâ one, so there are no excuses accepted.
Whether, or not, you have a weighbridge at your depot wonât affect things Iâm afraid, but there is a defence if youâre driving to the nearest weighbridge for the purpose of check-weighing your vehicle. If you do that, and youâre pulled on the way there, then you have a defence⌠PROVIDED that you return to the original loading point (not driving to the first drop 
) to have the excess weight removed. The defence is also valid if you get pulled when driving back to the original loading point in an overloaded state, after check-weighing, for the purpose of having the excess load removed.
If youâre found overweight in any other circumstances after leaving the depot as you described, then Iâm afraid that you and your boss will be very likely to get busted for the overload.
Thanks for the reply dave, i understand any weighbridges open at 3am ? 
im just trying to get some sort of idea how much the stuff i carry weighs then i can make the call as of when needed.
to add - the weighbridge fee is not the responsibility of the driver
Trucker beads:
Thanks for the reply dave, i understand any weighbridges open at 3am ?
Aha, thatâs a very good point indeed!!
You might have to travel some distance to find the nearest weighbridge thatâs open at that time of the morning.
It might be helpful if your boss were to ask the sender(s) of the goods to tell him the weight(s.)
I had an afterthought about your question⌠there are load sensing devices, which are fairly accurate, that your boss might buy and get fitted to your trucks. If youâre regularly carrying very close to your max allowed weight, then these might be far better than running the risk of fines and PG9s.
It should help to focus your bossâ mind if you remind him/her that he/she is also as responsible and answerable for overloading offences as you are.
Youâre both on the same team after all.
The best bet is to try and get an idea of how much each item/pallet/whatever weighs and add it all up. Getting your gaffer to cough up for a weigher for your wagon in most real world situations is going to be a complete non starter, especially if your firm hasnât been done for overloading in the past as the gaffer will just see it as a non issue until that happens. As long as youâre not grossly overweight you will get away with your first overloading offence anyway, itâs only when you start going massively over that they come down on you hard. Iâm sure I read somewhere that up to 5% over youâll normally (assuming nothing else is amiss) get little more than a slap on the wrist, could be wrong there though.
Paul
repton:
The best bet is to try and get an idea of how much each item/pallet/whatever weighs and add it all up. Getting your gaffer to cough up for a weigher for your wagon in most real world situations is going to be a complete non starter, especially if your firm hasnât been done for overloading in the past as the gaffer will just see it as a non issue until that happens.
Hi Paul, whilst thatâs maybe true for a lot of situations, there are whole fleets that are specced with on-board weighers from new.
Iâll repeat⌠IF a firm runs at or close to the truckâs max allowed weight, then IMHO on-board weighers are certainly worthy of consideration. All any gaffer has to do is to remember the undertakings given to the TC at the grant of the âOâ licence. As you know, a promise not to run overweight is absolutely central to the continuance of any âOâ licence. Getting the correct weights from the consignor would be of great help IMHO, but theyâve been known to short-declare weights. 
I do wish the UK would adopt the notion of consignor liability for weight.
repton:
As long as youâre not grossly overweight you will get away with your first overloading offence anyway, itâs only when you start going massively over that they come down on you hard. Iâm sure I read somewhere that up to 5% over youâll normally (assuming nothing else is amiss) get little more than a slap on the wrist, could be wrong there though.
Iâm not sure that receiving a PG9 and a possible court summons for a first overloading offence would count as âyou will get away with⌠etc,â because IIRC, itâs an âabsoluteâ offence. Therefore thereâs very little (if any) room for argument. As I remember it, if an overloading offence goes to court, a conviction is pretty much guaranteed. 
Then the TC might want a word with the boss.
IIRC, the 5% that you mentioned is in connection with a diminishing load, provided that the vehicle was legally loaded in the first place and any resultant axle overload is caused by the see-saw effect after having removed part of the load.
Geebee45 might give us VOSAâs views and policy on weights and clarify any tolerancesâŚ
Thanks for all the replys very helpful indeed.
To give a rough idea on weight i carry, looking at around 33 or so cages of linen, which im told when full can way a quater of a ton, and not forgetting all the bags u shove on top when comming back dirtyâŚ
Its been worring me for sometime now, i dont care about my licence its the poor sod i go in to
Thanks again for all the replys.
p.s⌠will deffo mention about the weight sensor.
Trucker beads:
i dont care about my licence
You should do that is your livelihood and youâve most probably spent good money to get it
Well, i was one of the lucky ones to get it free in the army, or out of a pack of corn flakes either one 
ya right about it being my lively hood, but also killing someone would put me in prison, and with a family to feed that aint a good option so licence going byebye would be better
Its not just overall weight but the per axle weight. I know people who have been done for being under total weight but too much per axle, they had to handball stuff about on the wagon until it was balanced. This is a lot harder to work out and something i donât really understand - but i refuse to go on a course until the CPC starts.
For example my trailer says 39 tonne gross, 8 tonne per axle and 15 tonne on the 5th wheel. The wagon says something like 11 tonne rear axle, 6 tonne front.
Variables;
Not too much of a problem for me as i only pull the compaines own goods and i have weighed one of each crate on a gantry crane and iâm well under weight for the vehicle, its more bulky than heavy.
dieseldave:
repton:
As long as youâre not grossly overweight you will get away with your first overloading offence anyway, itâs only when you start going massively over that they come down on you hard. Iâm sure I read somewhere that up to 5% over youâll normally (assuming nothing else is amiss) get little more than a slap on the wrist, could be wrong there though.Iâm not sure that receiving a PG9 and a possible court summons for a first overloading offence would count as âyou will get away with⌠etc,â because IIRC, itâs an âabsoluteâ offence. Therefore thereâs very little (if any) room for argument. As I remember it, if an overloading offence goes to court, a conviction is pretty much guaranteed.
Yes, IF it goes to court, but in the real world they will use some discretion, theyâre not going to do you for being 50kg over. I know of people driving 44ton bulk tippers who have been stopped and weighed at more than 200kg over and theyâve just turned a blind eye to it as everything else has been in order.
This link, although not an official document, suggests you arenât normally going to get prosecuted unless the overload is greater than 5% or 1000kg, whichever is smaller. So with an 18ton rigid youâre probably alright up to 18900kg. With anything bigger as long as youâre no more than 1000kg over your weight youâll probably just get a warning.
Iâm not trying to condone running overweight, I just think that scaring people by saying that theyâre going to be instantly in very big trouble if they inadvertently go 100kg over their weight is a bit OTT.
Paul
repton:
dieseldave:
repton:
As long as youâre not grossly overweight you will get away with your first overloading offence anyway, itâs only when you start going massively over that they come down on you hard. Iâm sure I read somewhere that up to 5% over youâll normally (assuming nothing else is amiss) get little more than a slap on the wrist, could be wrong there though.Iâm not sure that receiving a PG9 and a possible court summons for a first overloading offence would count as âyou will get away with⌠etc,â because IIRC, itâs an âabsoluteâ offence. Therefore thereâs very little (if any) room for argument. As I remember it, if an overloading offence goes to court, a conviction is pretty much guaranteed.
Yes, IF it goes to court, but in the real world they will use some discretion, theyâre not going to do you for being 50kg over. I know of people driving 44ton bulk tippers who have been stopped and weighed at more than 200kg over and theyâve just turned a blind eye to it as everything else has been in order.
This link, although not an official document, suggests you arenât normally going to get prosecuted unless the overload is greater than 5% or 1000kg, whichever is smaller. So with an 18ton rigid youâre probably alright up to 18900kg. With anything bigger as long as youâre no more than 1000kg over your weight youâll probably just get a warning.
Iâm not trying to condone running overweight, I just think that scaring people by saying that theyâre going to be instantly in very big trouble if they inadvertently go 100kg over their weight is a bit OTT.
Paul
Hi Paul, Iâm not quite sure where I said the part that I made red in your quote, or even anything like it.
Maybe itâs my cautious nature, but it just seems to me that itâs maybe a tad risky for you to suggest that: âSo with an 18ton rigid youâre probably alright up to 18900kg.â Or to put it another way, if you were my boss and you told me that the 18t GVW vehicle you asked me to drive actually weighed 18,900kgs, Iâd very politely ask you to remove the excess weight or Iâd equally politely be giving you the keys back and going back home.
If you were an employed driver, would you honestly drive that 18,900kg vehicle in those circumstances?
Take your wagon over a weigh bridge, any weigh bridge, to get an accurate weight.
With a full load or empty would be best. Part loaded puts a too complicated variable in. But I would expect you to be heavier with clean linen on the outbound part of your journey. Itâll be folded and pressed, with little air in the linen. Dirty linen will be just stuffed in a bag and take up a lot more room but will have a lot of air within the bulk. If itâs a 1 for 1 exchange system then youâll weigh the same out bound or inbound.
An empty 18t day cabbed curtainsider weighs roughly 7.5t usually. A tail lift will make it heavier, a box van is probably slightly heavier too. Obviously a box van with tail lift will be even heavier.
A load of 33 x 250 kg cages weighs roughly 8,250 kg.
Thats a very rough estimated gross weight of 15,750 kg, which leaves a fair bit of lee-way in your favour.
The only way to be sure youâre ok is to take it over a weigh bridge.
Some of the ministry weigh bridges are left permanently open and working.
These are usually axle weighers. Drive over it very slowly (5 mph) and make a note of the weights on the display. It might add them together for you, it might not.
dieseldave:
Hi Paul, Iâm not quite sure where I said the part that I made red in your quote, or even anything like it.
I was referring to you suggesting that someone would without question get a PG9 and a court summons for their first overloading offence, however small. In practice this is almost certainly not the case unless you are significantly overloaded.
dieseldave:
If you were an employed driver, would you honestly drive that 18,900kg vehicle in those circumstances?
Iâm not suggesting that we should all from now on assume the MGW of an 18t rigid is 900kg more than before, and if it was known for certain that it was that much overweight then I wouldnât drive it. However, if there was a chance it was one or two hundred kg over but nobody was quite sure as the load hadnât been weighed I would drive it, after all if you set off at bang on 18000kg and then a few miles down the road put a tank full of fuel in you would be 200+kg over.
Paul
Simon:
The only way to be sure youâre ok is to take it over a weigh bridge.
Some of the ministry weigh bridges are left permanently open and working.
These are usually axle weighers. Drive over it very slowly (5 mph) and make a note of the weights on the display. It might add them together for you, it might not.
Where are they open Simon â â ?
M4 jn 18 locked up, bottom of M50 locked up. maybe the whole ideal is to catch us out 
Were down rated very rairly run over weight but on the Very very odd ocasion might be tight when we have wrap or some of the other stuff on
repton:
dieseldave:
Hi Paul, Iâm not quite sure where I said the part that I made red in your quote, or even anything like it.I was referring to you suggesting that someone would without question get a PG9 and a court summons for their first overloading offence, however small. In practice this is almost certainly not the case unless you are significantly overloaded.
Hi Paul, Just for a moment, letâs consider whatâs taught on the operatorsâ Nat CPC course:
Overloading is an âabsoluteâ offence.
The permitted GVW is shown on a legally required plate in the cab.
GVW is the sum of; the kerb weight, the load, the fuel and any loose tools/equipment plus the weight of the driver.
If a vehicle is stop checked and the (actual) GVW exceeds the permitted GVW, a C&U offence has been commited.
What we seem to be discussing is some form of âtolerance,â which is generally thought to be 5%.
IMHO, and for my own part, I really wouldnât like to second-guess a police/vosa officerâs decision to report a matter for consideration of prosecution, because Iâm not usually very lucky.
It might be that a particular officer in a particular set of circumstances decides to report the matter, but who knows what the prosecutor will do? Maybe theyâll decide to prosecute, but then maybe not.
Iâll repeat that IF an overloading offence goes to court, a conviction is pretty much guaranteed. Every driver is in charge of their own licence, so itâs up to the individual to decide whatâs acceptable to them, but Iâd just remind them of the possibility of a reality check, thatâs all. For anybody to come to an informed decision, Iâd say they need a clear knowledge of where the goalposts are, only then can they decide for themselves.
repton:
Iâm not suggesting that we should all from now on assume the MGW of an 18t rigid is 900kg more than before, and if it was known for certain that it was that much overweight then I wouldnât drive it. However, if there was a chance it was one or two hundred kg over but nobody was quite sure as the load hadnât been weighed I would drive it, after all if you set off at bang on 18000kg and then a few miles down the road put a tank full of fuel in you would be 200+kg over.
I didnât think you were actually suggesting that, but from your post above, you seemed to me to be maybe thinking itâs ok.
IMHO the original question related to an 18t vehicle, but you mentioned a 44t bulker in a post above. I gave the answer I did in relation to the question asked, but I do agree that an extra couple of hundred kgs on a 44t bulker is very small beer indeed and might possibly be âtolerated.â