diesel dan:
hi carryfast.
if driving a bloody wagon and drag made you a man,i am glad i remained a cheeky boy
You would’nt have been glad on my old firm because they would’nt have let you nose them onto the bank they would have sacked you all
Carryfast my son you couln’t drive sheep with a good dog !! No Dave I said “drive” !!! Bewick.
Bewick As you can’t seem to be able tell the difference between an A frame drawbar outfit and a close coupled caravan type one lets hope it’s not you who’ll be the judge of that.
Carryfast In my opinion an A frame is from the towing pin back to the axle on the trailer !! A turntable trailer is exactly that !! a turntable over the front axle of the trailer !! I don’t have any knowledge of caravans only that they are F*****g nusiance !! Don’t tell us – you are a senior member of the Caravan Club !!! Wind your jack legs up and Foxtrot Oscar!! Cheers Bewick.
diesel dan:
hi carryfast.
if driving a bloody wagon and drag made you a man,i am glad i remained a cheeky boy
You would’nt have been glad on my old firm because they would’nt have let you nose them onto the bank they would have sacked you all
Carryfast my son you couln’t drive sheep with a good dog !! No Dave I said “drive” !!! Bewick.
Bewick As you can’t seem to be able tell the difference between an A frame drawbar outfit and a close coupled caravan type one lets hope it’s not you who’ll be the judge of that.
Carryfast In my opinion an A frame is from the towing pin back to the axle on the trailer !! A turntable trailer is exactly that !! a turntable over the front axle of the trailer !! I don’t have any knowledge of caravans only that they are F*****g nusiance !! Don’t tell us – you are a senior member of the Caravan Club !!! Wind your jack legs up and Foxtrot Oscar!! Cheers Bewick.
No Bewick if you were any good at your job you’d know that the A Frame is what forms the drawbar and is what’s connected to the turntable by the trunnions which allow for the vertical movement between the trailer and the prime mover.At the front of the A frame is the eye which the pin in the coupling goes through to hopefully keep the whole lot together.It’s all a lot better than a mickey mouse close coupled set up or a caravan. However having said all of that if I was driving a roadtrain I would be using the winding handle to wind up the landing legs on the two trailers one of which would be coupled to the unit by the fifth wheel and the other would be a composite trailer made up of a drawbar dolly and a semi trailer.It’ll probably take all night to explain that lot to you though.
diesel dan:
hi carryfast.
if driving a bloody wagon and drag made you a man,i am glad i remained a cheeky boy
You would’nt have been glad on my old firm because they would’nt have let you nose them onto the bank they would have sacked you all
Carryfast my son you couln’t drive sheep with a good dog !! No Dave I said “drive” !!! Bewick.
Bewick As you can’t seem to be able tell the difference between an A frame drawbar outfit and a close coupled caravan type one lets hope it’s not you who’ll be the judge of that.
Carryfast In my opinion an A frame is from the towing pin back to the axle on the trailer !! A turntable trailer is exactly that !! a turntable over the front axle of the trailer !! I don’t have any knowledge of caravans only that they are F*****g nusiance !! Don’t tell us – you are a senior member of the Caravan Club !!! Wind your jack legs up and Foxtrot Oscar!! Cheers Bewick.
No Bewick if you were any good at your job you’d know that the A Frame is what forms the drawbar and is what’s connected to the turntable by the trunnions which allow for the vertical movement between the trailer and the prime mover.At the front of the A frame is the eye which the pin in the coupling goes through to hopefully keep the whole lot together.It’s all a lot better than a mickey mouse close coupled set up or a caravan. However having said all of that if I was driving a roadtrain I would be using the winding handle to wind up the landing legs on the two trailers one of which would be coupled to the unit by the fifth wheel and the other would be a composite trailer made up of a drawbar dolly and a semi trailer.It’ll probably take all night to explain that lot to you though.
All I can say Carryfast is I wouldn’t fancy the Kangaroo’s chances if you were barrelling towards it in an Aussie Roadtrain !! No Sir !!! Cheers Bewick.
diesel dan:
hi carryfast.
if driving a bloody wagon and drag made you a man,i am glad i remained a cheeky boy
You would’nt have been glad on my old firm because they would’nt have let you nose them onto the bank they would have sacked you all
Carryfast my son you couln’t drive sheep with a good dog !! No Dave I said “drive” !!! Bewick.
Bewick As you can’t seem to be able tell the difference between an A frame drawbar outfit and a close coupled caravan type one lets hope it’s not you who’ll be the judge of that.
Carryfast In my opinion an A frame is from the towing pin back to the axle on the trailer !! A turntable trailer is exactly that !! a turntable over the front axle of the trailer !! I don’t have any knowledge of caravans only that they are F*****g nusiance !! Don’t tell us – you are a senior member of the Caravan Club !!! Wind your jack legs up and Foxtrot Oscar!! Cheers Bewick.
No Bewick if you were any good at your job you’d know that the A Frame is what forms the drawbar and is what’s connected to the turntable by the trunnions which allow for the vertical movement between the trailer and the prime mover.At the front of the A frame is the eye which the pin in the coupling goes through to hopefully keep the whole lot together.It’s all a lot better than a mickey mouse close coupled set up or a caravan. However having said all of that if I was driving a roadtrain I would be using the winding handle to wind up the landing legs on the two trailers one of which would be coupled to the unit by the fifth wheel and the other would be a composite trailer made up of a drawbar dolly and a semi trailer.It’ll probably take all night to explain that lot to you though.
All I can say Carryfast is I wouldn’t fancy the Kangaroo’s chances if you were barrelling towards it in an Aussie Roadtrain !! No Sir !!! Cheers Bewick.
That’s a bit unfair Bewick because they’ve fitted roo bars on the front of their units for years just for that purpose.It’s law over there that you should’nt try to do an emergency stop or try to swerve a 120 + tonner just to miss a roo which should have seen it coming a mile away.
hiya,
Anyone who has delivered the back streets of Manchester in the late 50s and early 60s with an 8 legger and drawbar trailer and says they NEVER had to do a nose job into some of those bays which were built for horse and cart transport, i would tell them they was telling porkies, most of the jobs were full trailer loads and i consider myself a capable driver doing that sort of work for three years continuous and still doing odd tug and pup loads after becomeing "articulated"in the early 60s, and being able to “nose” trailers is an art form in itself and having had to perform the manouvre is nothing to be ashamed of, oh yes i could put them in on the arse end as well as anybody but for anybody to say they they have never nosed one in has only ever delivered/loaded at loads of room premises.
thanks harry long retired.
harry_gill:
hiya,
Anyone who has delivered the back streets of Manchester in the late 50s and early 60s with an 8 legger and drawbar trailer and says they NEVER had to do a nose job into some of those bays which were built for horse and cart transport, i would tell them they was telling porkies, most of the jobs were full trailer loads and i consider myself a capable driver doing that sort of work for three years continuous and still doing odd tug and pup loads after becomeing "articulated"in the early 60s, and being able to “nose” trailers is an art form in itself and having had to perform the manouvre is nothing to be ashamed of, oh yes i could put them in on the arse end as well as anybody but for anybody to say they they have never nosed one in has only ever delivered/loaded at loads of room premises.
thanks harry long retired.
All respect to your generation Harry no power steering and the back streets of a world where I was about 3 years old.But it’s not the same context as the argument where it’s drivers needing to nose drawbar outits on to the bank in a yard where they should have been reversed in.But in general I’d have reversed a wagon and drag anywhere that I could have reversed an artic and the wagon and drags I’m referring to are the modern day 40 tonner 18 metre jobs going into spaces between trailers of sometimes just a few inches over a truck’s width and it’s even more of a different world if it’s a reversing test with that Stan Robinson roadtrain which I’d like to have a go at.
harry_gill:
hiya,
Anyone who has delivered the back streets of Manchester in the late 50s and early 60s with an 8 legger and drawbar trailer and says they NEVER had to do a nose job into some of those bays which were built for horse and cart transport, i would tell them they was telling porkies, most of the jobs were full trailer loads and i consider myself a capable driver doing that sort of work for three years continuous and still doing odd tug and pup loads after becomeing "articulated"in the early 60s, and being able to “nose” trailers is an art form in itself and having had to perform the manouvre is nothing to be ashamed of, oh yes i could put them in on the arse end as well as anybody but for anybody to say they they have never nosed one in has only ever delivered/loaded at loads of room premises.
thanks harry long retired.
All respect to your generation Harry no power steering and the back streets of a world where I was about 3 years old.But it’s not the same context as the argument where it’s drivers needing to nose drawbar outits on to the bank in a yard where they should have been reversed in.But in general I’d have reversed a wagon and drag anywhere that I could have reversed an artic and the wagon and drags I’m referring to are the modern day 40 tonner 18 metre jobs going into spaces between trailers of sometimes just a few inches over a truck’s width and it’s even more of a different world if it’s a reversing test with that Stan Robinson roadtrain which I’d like to have a go at.
It seems rather like instead of teddies been thrown, it seems like gloves are being tossed aside. There is only one way to settle it. will someone lend an independant arbitrator a drawbar outfit so Carryfast can prove he can reverse one. How about a small wager at Peterborough? I am sure they could line a couple of rows of highly polished trucks up and let him practice his black art.
Got this stuck under a fuel station canopy in Yugo and had to reverse through s bends to get out, took me forever 'cos I was rubbish, all the traffic was building up trying to get in to the fuel station and this Bulgi driver was taking the p and offering to do it for me but I just ignored them all and made them wait
My first experience with a wagon and drag was in 1975. After I sold my own truck in the middle east I was in need of a job so I sallied forth to the world famous Litwin empire of Simon International which at that time was situated in the jack the ripper area of Whitechapel. Upon arriving and talking to Mr Haley (Jeff was on an enforced holiday), Jim was OK with my experience as I had just done almost 2 years as an owner driver for Astran. So he could see that I had a vague idea of what was what. “We need a driver” he said. “Can you leave tomorrow for Tehran?” “No worries” I said. He then said “you can you drive a road train, can’t you?” "Oh sht" I thought. I said “of course, Jeff Ruggins showed me how with his road train on Astrans”.So off I went out of the yard in Hopetown Street driving an F89 road train nearly taking the gate and three or four cars with me. Go home first to load up all my gear. Driving a left ■■■■■■ was no problem as my old truck was one and as I got closer to where I lived in Clacton my confidence was building. I lived in a cul-de-sac with a turning at the end. This was OK for a morris minor but a bit more of a problem for a road train with an incompetent driver. After some time and having completely blocked the road the fire brigade came to my rescue and sorted me out (both physically and verbally!). I spent until 3 in the morning practising reversing on the football ground’s car park.
I drove down to Dover the next day and having done all the customs formalities I found out to my horror that it was a reverse on to the boat and drive off at the other end. After what seemed like ages at attempting to back onto the boat but seeming to get ever further away from it which gave the other drivers a good laugh they got a tug to put the trailer on for me. The loader said that the boat has to leave today!
When I arrived in Istanbul, I pulled into the Mocamp and unfortunately one of the first people I saw was Ruggins who upon seeing me in my “big rig” fell about with laughter saying "f***ing ell lads, stand back 'ere comes one of Simon’s professionals! As I went onto the parking area with the intention of reversing inbetween a line of parked wagons, I saw that Ruggins had got all the drivers he could find to watch me reverse…the horrible sht! Needless to say I spent what seemed like an eternity making a dogs bo**ocks of the whole thing while most of the other drivers were close to getting a communal heart attack from laughing. Eventually, Ruggins took pity on me and after the promise of a case of efes beer slotted it into the line like a hot knife into butter.
I did eventually get quite good with a wagon and drag and drove some for dutch companies over the years but you never forget the first time.
tonyhogi:
Hi all , spent 10 years driving “A” frame drawbar lorries with BRS northampton- firstly for Mothercare @ Wellingborough ;then with Travis perkins . Reversing one of these really sorted the men from the boys Unlike the close coupled drags you see now- which reverse like an artic, these were a totally different animal which some drivers never mastered Has anyone else drove them or got some tales
I was the mate to who I believe was one of ,if not , the finest waggon and trailer driver bar none !! I was with him in the later 60s at Brady’s and he was a craftsman !! Perfection was his middle name and I am priviledged to still count him as a friend to this day !! You would have to see him in action reversing the trailer 100s of yards in many cases straight as a die !! and as for sheeting & roping well he was the Guvnor !! His name ? Eric Postlethwaite( Possy to all who know him ) Happy Days Bewick.
Although not as glamorous as those middle east draw bars, here,s my contribution to this thread.
I drove this for my brother in law who owned Southern Pallets in Southampton years ago.
As others have said, it was a bloody nightmare to reverse until you got the hang of it, which took me a month or so.
It used to carry 600 standard size pallets compared to 500 on a 40 ft. trailer.
This is what i have been driving for the last few years, ( crap quality pic i,m afraid ) but it,s now got a plain white cab.
hiya,
At least the the Scania will have power steering, the knack of backing a drawbar trailer is being able to change lock quickly a bit different with an old Octopus where you would be pretty well standing up to turn the steering at the slow speed needed when reverseing, if you get chance have a go it’ll change your views, the easiest 8 legger to push a trailer back with was the AEC fitted with what we called trailer geared steering made the job a bit better.
thanks harry long retired.
Harry… I did my share of driving before the days of power steering, but was driving artics.
Certainly would,nt have fancied an A frame draw bar back then…Tony
Got this stuck under a fuel station canopy in Yugo and had to reverse through s bends to get out, took me forever 'cos I was rubbish, all the traffic was building up trying to get in to the fuel station and this Bulgi driver was taking the p and offering to do it for me but I just ignored them all and made them wait
When I first moved to Western Australia in the mid 90’s I got a job swinging spanners for this mob,Eltin’s. Among other Road Trains they were running these 143E 450 and 475’s Waggon and Drags,running at about 150-180 tonne. Although I never realy drove them I used to help hook them up after the trailers had been repaired,all the blokes driving could back one trailer no drama and some would have a fair crack at backing two trailers on to the ‘dog’ or last trailer. No mean feat as there would be four pivot points,an impresive sight to watch. The whole outfit would usually be fairly tangled up by the time it was altogether. If we could’nt get them together we’d use a front end loader with a chain around the ‘A’ frame of the dolly to line up the ring feeder.
I must say some of the best truck drivers I’ve worked with have been Road Train drivers,but there were some roughies too.
Sadly this type of Road Train combination is rarely seen these days as four trailers can now be pulled by a tractor unit. These Scania’s were great if other trucks got bogged as they could be unhooked and gave great traction being a loaded 8x4. Interestingly they were the most heavy duty spec trucks that Scania had produced at the time,big diffs,double hub reduction and 18 speed Road Rangers.
Cheers Jamie
NZ JAMIE:
When I first moved to Western Australia in the mid 90’s I got a job swinging spanners for this mob,Eltin’s. Among other Road Trains they were running these 143E 450 and 475’s Waggon and Drags,running at about 150-180 tonne. Although I never realy drove them I used to help hook them up after the trailers had been repaired,all the blokes driving could back one trailer no drama and some would have a fair crack at backing two trailers on to the ‘dog’ or last trailer. No mean feat as there would be four pivot points,an impresive sight to watch. The whole outfit would usually be fairly tangled up by the time it was altogether. If we could’nt get them together we’d use a front end loader with a chain around the ‘A’ frame of the dolly to line up the ring feeder.
I must say some of the best truck drivers I’ve worked with have been Road Train drivers,but there were some roughies too.
Sadly this type of Road Train combination is rarely seen these days as four trailers can now be pulled by a tractor unit. These Scania’s were great if other trucks got bogged as they could be unhooked and gave great traction being a loaded 8x4. Interestingly they were the most heavy duty spec trucks that Scania had produced at the time,big diffs,double hub reduction and 18 speed Road Rangers.
Cheers Jamie
That’s definitely the best spec for a roadtrain or a wagon and drag prime mover but there’s loads of people in Europe who think that 6x2,or 4x2 provides better traction than double drive axles and most think that it’s impossible to reverse a roadtrain even with a 3 pivot tractor unit and drawbar double roadtrain outfit.
Hi all, I started as a trailer mate for Hanson Haulage, Huddersfield, around 59/60. That’s 1959/60 not 1859. We had mainly AEC’s and a couple of old Albions pulling trailers. They were used mainly on night trunk to London with cloth from local textile Mills. Also used to get a lot of wool back into same mills. We also had a four wheeled AEC Mandator which I inherited as driver. I was still 3 months short of my 21st when I got it but i was always a big lad, though not quite as wide as now and when I told him the Transport Manager stopped and thought for a minute and then said “well you look 21, so if anybody asks you are” AH the good old days.
I used to do a lot of dock work, mainly Liverpool, Manchester and Hull. Of course that was before the M62 and all the other straight roads were built, not like now, get going, set cruise control and settle down for a couple of hours. Us Golden Oldies used to go round corners and had to turn the steering wheel.
Somebody asked for stories about Wagon and Drags. When I was still mating we set off from Huddersfield over A62 Standage at about 4am in an 8 legger AEC and drag. We had just gone over the top and started dropping down towards Delph when the low air warning arm shot up, see how old fashioned we were , The driver Walter started to ratchet up on the hand brake, did I mention we were old fashioned, and it wasn’t having a lot of effect. Fortunately it happened on a bit where the road levelled out but we were fast approaching the steep bit down into the village. Walter shouted to me to jump out and put the handbrake on the trailer to help. Course as a young Lad I fancied myself as Superman, NO PROBLEM. I soon changed me mind as the roadside marker posts flashed past and I decided there was a severe threat to my marriage tackle. I shouted at Walt to pull out from the road edge. Once he had done so I bailed out and grabbed the handbrake lever of the trailer as it came past. Of course truck maintenance being what it was in those days the ratchet was U/S so I had to hold on to the dammed thing and run alongside holding the brake on. We eventually managed to stop just before the steep bit. We found the air leak on the trailer,disconnected the pipes and carried on through Oldham and Manchester to Liverpool.
hiya,
The Yorkshireman you was lucky there my old son if you had gone over the next bit you would have had problems, most likely cleaned Delph off the map, but lucky in another sense having the trailer brakes working through the footbrake, the first 8 legger and trailer i drove only had a a handbrake in the passenger side for the trailer boy to operate this had a cable the full length of the motor and connected to the trailer there was nowt from my side of the cab my brakes only did the wagon so i had to make sure the little bugger stayed awake, in fact the trailer “boy” was a chap in his 60s and ordered off the road with eyesight problems and me the driver was just 21, and the “boy” was a bit prone to nodding off, the year would have been 1957 and i’m still here to tell the tale.
thanks harry long retired.
However having said all of that if I was driving a roadtrain I would be using the winding handle to wind up the landing legs on the two trailers one of which would be coupled to the unit by the fifth wheel and the other would be a composite trailer made up of a drawbar dolly and a semi trailer.It’ll probably take all night to explain that lot to you though. 
really sorted the men from the boys 
Unlike the close coupled drags you see now- which reverse like an artic, these were a totally different animal which some drivers never mastered Has anyone else drove them or got some tales 
We had mainly AEC’s and a couple of old Albions pulling trailers. They were used mainly on night trunk to London with cloth from local textile Mills. Also used to get a lot of wool back into same mills. We also had a four wheeled AEC Mandator which I inherited as driver. I was still 3 months short of my 21st when I got it but i was always a big lad, though not quite as wide as now and when I told him the Transport Manager stopped and thought for a minute and then said “well you look 21, so if anybody asks you are” AH the good old days.