Been offered a training course on one, but am wondering how “different” they are to an artic to drive. If I say yes, this should be “interesting.”
Cheers
Ian.
Liberace:
Been offered a training course on one, but am wondering how “different” they are to an artic to drive. If I say yes, this should be “interesting.”
Did my C+E in one, but not driven one since.
I guess the main difference is that instead of v.short unit and long trailer you have long unit and shorter trailer. So you’ll have to get used to the comparitively poor turning circle of a rigid wagon again (I noticed that when driving the rigid I’m currently driving for Terry’s for the first time after having mostly been driving artics since my test). Also the chances are the trailer will have a pretty substantial rear overhang so you’ll need to watch out for that. On the plus side, while going forwards, you’ll tend to find with a W+D that the trailer cuts in less than an artic (mainly due to being shorter).
Paul
a lot different,i watch coors deliver to our depot in one.they look bloody awkward to manouvre.wouldnt mind having a go though.
I have only driven straight bar wag and drag, Drove one for about 4 months with demount bodies for Argos, Good fun, but I never really mastered the reverse, Even after 9 years on Artics it would still catch me out every now and then. But worth a go if you get the chance. 
drove w+d for a while turning circle is a problem some times but if its
boxes then they can be a problem droping them that is ,a lot of them go on and off on rollers and when they jam its a forky u need to get them off ok when in a dopot but not on a change over .the worst is the argos trailor and boxes
it depends which type lib.the “straight bar” with the axles in the middle are the same as an artic and pretty straight forward as your used to artics.
the ones i drive are “A frame” drawbars with the axles at the front and the back of the trailer.even though they are sixty foot you will have no problem with the length cos of your artic experience,the only things are:-
1,you need a turning circle the size of yorkshire. 
2,to reverse the trailer you have to turn the lock the opposite way to what you would in an artic then chase the bar with the wagon or it will jack knife in a blink. 
3,if your reversing goes wrong dont keep going and try rectifying it cos things will just get worse.instead pull forward a few feet to pull the bar straight and start again 
4,if you are in a very tight spot to unload,disconnect the suzies and release the shunting break.you can then make much tighter turns and not rip the suzies off 
Artics are easier and more forgiving to reverse!
Take your time, and remember this you will not become a expert
with anything that you are new at doing overnight,and without
practise, IF you can remember JOHN POWER had a wagon and drag
and he stated also you need to think differently as you would when
you where driveing a articulated vehicle and he did practise quite a
lot as he stated in the report about him in one of the trucking papers
about 1980-1986? I would say try it out and then make your own
decision about what YOU wish to do.
I didnt think many uk companys had the a frame turntable type trailors any more you only really see farm related ones. whats the stuff you lookin to do lib
I drive wag and drawbar.
To be honest just take your time on the reverse, leaving plenty of room for the wide front end swing of the rigid. When pulling out of a tight ■■■■■■■■■■■■ leave room for the large tail swing. On roads they are quite easy. I can’t conpare them to an artic because I’ve never driven one.
If you have the A frame trailor going forward is dead easy, the trailor just abut follows the line of the wagon. In reverse though 
I give up
I love my drawbar, just go for it Lib. It’ll stop you singing in the toilets
wylie:
I didnt think many uk companys had the a frame turntable type trailors any more you only really see farm related ones. whats the stuff you lookin to do lib
Thanks for the replys folks. I reckon I’ll scare 'em under supervision rather than get given the keys and get “off you go.” Another string to my bow so to speak.
It’ll probably be industrial estates, store, that type of thing.
Cheers
Ian.
As has been said Lib, caravan stlye set-ups are very similar to artics, when reverseing. A-Frames are a different kettle of fish.
I’ve been driving A-Frames on and off for 30 years (mainly off unfortunately). They take a bit of getting used to. If these are what you will be driving, you need to learn a totally different technique.
Find the spot on the front of your trailer,where beyond the spot means you are going to jack-knife (a different spot for each direction).
When you loose it, don’t try and pull a long way forward to try again, pull forward just enough to get the draw-bar pointing the right way and then push it back some more.
After about four years on artics, I had an agency job for three months with an A-Frame drawbar rig. It took me six weeks to be able to do the awkward reverse in four shunts. The first night it seemed to take a hundred 
Getting onto a bay, first time, or with one shunt to tidy it all up, is always a challenge for me with an A-Frame .
I found them a great challenge too, Simon lol but loved them
Lib, the best advice I can giove is what a “little old boy” told me many years ago after he had watched me make a ■■■ off meself for 15 minutes!!
He said (assuming you are using a A-Frame drag) … all depending on which way you are reversing, keep the leading corner of the trailer in your mirror AT ALL TIMES!! The moment you lose the corner, just stop and pull forward a few feet. Two goes of this and I had cracked it. I could reverse them without even looking round… just used the mirrors
I love 'em. The proper A-frame drags that is, not the caravans, they’re just artics.
The big thing is if you start to lose it (reversing) just pull forward a little bit as Simon said, not right over the other side of the yard to start again. A mistake many make.
Best feeling I had was one Saturday morning in Gauthiers yard there were no drag drivers in and the office wanted one putting on the dock. We expect continental drivers all to be dab hands at this, but to back that thing 50 yards round other vehicles and blind side onto the dock with everyone watching was just the pinnacle of my week!
If you can get your head round this Lib (if its A-frames you’re doing) imagine the drag is a 4 wheel rigid and you are the driver sitting over the front wheels. To reverse a rigid to the right you turn the wheel right. So how do you turn the trailer wheels right? By pushing the A-frame to the right. So how do you do that? You push the back of the truck to the right. So how do you do that? You turn the steering wheel to the right. Got it? Simple
Much easier if you have a steering knob so you can quickly swing to and fro a little bit. If backing in a straight line it is easier to deliberately swing back and forth slightly, rather than keeping dead straight.
And NEVER, be tempted to nose it in. Can’t see down the sides see? And as The Bear said, ‘you’ll soon be using only the mirrors’ best way.
Salut, David.
Here in the US, units like this are quite rare. In the northeast, you will see an occasional fuel tanker or concrete block delivery using an a-bar hookup, but never with a box. A few companies use the straight-bar type for long-distance trucking, but the only times I’ve seen a-bar vans over here has been once when a household mover, another time with an expediting truck and trailer combo, and there is one small company in California that pulls freight this way-that’s all!
Ironically, this type of drawbar/van combo used to be quite common in the waest 40+ years ago. Today, it is hardly ever seen.
To be honest, such a-bar combos are more common in bulk/liquid/flatbed/timber hauling in the mountain west where narrow winding roads are more common, and I have actually once driven an a-bar unit, but found it difficult to back.
So, of those out there who have experience in a-bar drawbar units, does anybody actually prefer them over a regular artic? If so, why?
i always thought that artics were easier than drawbar. i drove A-frames for SPAR a couple of years ago. going forward was brilliant. it just followed you everywhere. backing them up is something that proved to be way beyond my patience. even backing up straight would have been easier with a shopping trolley. the things go where they ■■■■ well like 
doddle mate nothing to worry about , all you have to remember ( straight bar) that the trailer reacts different to an arctic . you have to put more turn on it and then chase back behind it if you know what i mean … also blind siding is easier then an arctic in my opinion , you can see a lot longer than you can an arctic . driven one for the past two years and no complaints here … forward motion is a doddle the trailer just steps in and follows its brill
go for it its easier than you think …
can seem daunting i know , i was two years ago … on the other hand put me in an arctic and i,ll guarantee i,ll oversteer it on even the slightest reversing manouvere… too used to the wagon and drag see …
AlexxInNY:
So, of those out there who have experience in a-bar drawbar units, does anybody actually prefer them over a regular artic? If so, why?
If I got it right you mean A-frame ( axles in front and rear of trailer). I prefer it over a artic. Artic is easier to reverse for an amateur but a-frame isn’t much more complicated when you get used to it. When trailer begins going to wrong direction you just pull 20cm forward and back again. Here has been great tips for reversing drag. Usually it takes none to two shunts when reversing straight to bay and little more when reversing "around the corner like in this picture.
First time I was out with artic was about year after I got my license and it wasn’t any problem to reverse. Thing I was shocked about was amount of space which front of trailer needs when it “peeks” in outer curve, almost took traffic light with me Other thing which I don’t like is short wheelbase of an artic. 5 metre to drive axle and tag axle behind it, road is so smooth… 
Only clear disadvantage is uncoupling. Almost every place as you have to jump off the cab three times when arriving and leaving yard. Open doors of trailer, back to dock, disconnect suzies, drive forward and open doors of truck and back to dock. This isn’t any problem if there is no dirt behind/under the truck, but not so nice when weather is wet.
Almost forget most obvious advatage of rigid and drag. When it’s slippery you have (almost) no worries with rigid. You just lift tag axle and can go everywhere. Think about difference between Nissan Micra and Hummer when going off-road, it’s about same kind of difference between artic and drag. I haven’t had “pleasure” of driving artic in winter, which I’m quite grateful, but I have a pal who doesn’t even touch artic at winter. He has even refused job becouse it was in artic at winter. I bet that many of you wouldn’t like to be in this kind of dock with artic in same weather and warm tyres.
AlexxInNY:
So, of those out there who have experience in a-bar drawbar units, does anybody actually prefer them over a regular artic? If so, why?
Yes I prefer them Alexx.
More comfortable ride. You don’t get the ‘nodding donkey’ effect of some artics.
Easier going forward in tight, narrow spaces. Despite longer overall length a drag follows the wagon’s line closer.
In spite of comments here to the contrary you don’t always get a poorer turning circle like a rigid. If the wagon is designed for drag operations the wheel lock is often tighter.
It is possible, with a little thought, to turn and drive out of a restricted space which in an artic would involve reversing all the way out. I can guarantee to turn in any space only slightly longer than the trailer length.
Method:
Park with trailer about 1 metre from the left (or right) wall (assuming little or no rear overhang).
Reverse carefully to immediately jack knife the A-frame. Take care to stop before fouling rear of the truck. The towing eye should be facing backwards as far as possible.
Disconnect and turn the wagon independantly, shunting back and forth as necessary.
Then reverse onto the eye and re-connect.
Drive carefully away. The trailer spin turns on its rear axle. Drive away in opposite direction.
A slightly easier variation if there is a fork truck available is to drop the trailer as above but leave the park brake off or push shunting button, block the rears and let the fork push or tow the A-frame into the required position.
I worked for a company who were sticklers for safety and had to almost do a theses to convince doubters that it was both possible and safe. I did have to write the SOP (standard operating procedure) for all to follow.
Lastly, I have always been interested in testing my skills to the limit, be it artics, road trains (the real Australian kind), heavy haulage, oversize or drags and enjoyed the kudos that went with the opportunity to demonstrate them.
Showing off, some say, but you can’t do it unless you can do it.
Salut, David.
And 1 more question:
What makes a W&G more useable? Is it the cubic capacity?
Here, a unit like that would be limited to 40’ on the lead and 28’6" on the trailer, giving at best 60’ of box total. Over here, we can pull 53’ trailers almost everywhere, and max out on weight at 40 tons.
What would be the sizes over there? Lead and trailer?