Hi guys, first time posting, apologies if it’s a stupid question!
Recently got a 26 tonne gross 6 wheeler with a hitch. It has a train weight of 35 tonne. Does this mean it can only tow 9 tonne or could you have the wagon loaded weighing 20 tonne and the trailer loaded weighing 15 tonne for example? As long as it doesn’t exceed 35t and axle weights aren’t overloaded?
Thanks
You need to weigh the lorry and trailer separately when empty.The combined unladen weight should be deducted from the gross train weight to give your payload.The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.
Not a stupid question, but as you post, there will be stupid answers 
Gidders:
You need to weigh the lorry and trailer separately when empty.The combined unladen weight should be deducted from the gross train weight to give your payload.The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.
The lorry weighs 12t giving a payload of 14t and the trailer is 18t gross and weighs 3t giving payload of 15t. Total payload would only be 20t though considering the lorrys plated train weight is only 35t.
My question really is could I put a 6 tonne dumper on the lorry and a 13 tonne digger on the trailer and be legal? Or am I only allowed to tow a max of 9 tonne?
KennyMackinnon:
Gidders:
You need to weigh the lorry and trailer separately when empty.The combined unladen weight should be deducted from the gross train weight to give your payload.The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.The lorry weighs 12t giving a payload of 14t and the trailer is 18t gross and weighs 3t giving payload of 15t. Total payload would only be 20t though considering the lorrys plated train weight is only 35t.
My question really is could I put a 6 tonne dumper on the lorry and a 13 tonne digger on the trailer and be legal? Or am I only allowed to tow a max of 9 tonne?
Yes
I was going to mention (but was busy this morning) the trailer itself will have a gross weight of its own; and also the last consideration (although it won’t be that much for a hitch instead of a 5th wheel) is the nose weight of the trailer needs to be within the allowable hitch nose weight; and this eats into the gross weight of the truck.
You can definitely run with >9t trailer though, that’s not a limit in itself.
Gidders:
The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.
Which is why that’s the called the gross combination weight of a close coupled outfit.As opposed to the gross train weight of an A frame outfit where that calculation doesn’t apply.
26t on the prime mover will always apply in the case of the latter because the trailer weight won’t transfer.
Carryfast:
Gidders:
The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.Which is why that’s the called the gross combination weight of a close coupled outfit.As opposed to the gross train weight of an A frame outfit where that calculation doesn’t apply.
26t on the prime mover will always apply in the case of the latter because the trailer weight won’t transfer.
I’ve spotted…
Your mistake there.
yourhavingalarf:
Carryfast:
Gidders:
The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.Which is why that’s the called the gross combination weight of a close coupled outfit.As opposed to the gross train weight of an A frame outfit where that calculation doesn’t apply.
26t on the prime mover will always apply in the case of the latter because the trailer weight won’t transfer.I’ve spotted…
Your mistake there.
As I read it’s a 26t gross prime mover ?.
it should be able to run at up to 44t gross train weight ? given a three axle A frame trailer or 40t with a two axle A frame trailer ?.
Gross Train Weight can’t by definition apply to a close coupled trailer which imposes/transfers some of its load onto the prime mover moreso depending on weight distribution of the trailer load.
That’s Gross Combination Weight and generally means compromise on the Prime Mover’s gross weight to allow for trailer weight transfer.
But an A frame trailer generally means you can load the prime mover to it’s max gross.In that case the gross trailer weight is a totally separate entity added to the prime mover’s creating the GTW.Its anyone’s guess why a 26t gross prime mover would be limited to 35t gtw or even gcw.
Carryfast:
yourhavingalarf:
Carryfast:
Gidders:
The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.Which is why that’s the called the gross combination weight of a close coupled outfit.As opposed to the gross train weight of an A frame outfit where that calculation doesn’t apply.
26t on the prime mover will always apply in the case of the latter because the trailer weight won’t transfer.I’ve spotted…
Your mistake there.
As I read it’s a 26t gross prime mover ?.
it should be able to run at up to 44t gross train weight ? given a three axle A frame trailer or 40t with a two axle A frame trailer ?.
Gross Train Weight can’t by definition apply to a close coupled trailer which imposes/transfers some of its load onto the prime mover moreso depending on weight distribution of the trailer load.
That’s Gross Combination Weight and generally means compromise on the Prime Mover’s gross weight to allow for trailer weight transfer.
But an A frame trailer generally means you can load the prime mover to it’s max gross.In that case the gross trailer weight is a totally separate entity added to the prime mover’s creating the GTW.Its anyone’s guess why a 26t gross prime mover would be limited to 35t gtw or even gcw.
And so begins another A frame debacle courtesy of carryfast
Time to exit the thread
justpassing:
Carryfast:
Carryfast:
Gidders:
The gross vehicle weight of each should also be considered to calculate how the payload should be spread between the prime mover and the trailer so as not to overload either.Which is why that’s the called the gross combination weight of a close coupled outfit.As opposed to the gross train weight of an A frame outfit where that calculation doesn’t apply.
26t on the prime mover will always apply in the case of the latter because the trailer weight won’t transfer.I’ve spotted…
Your mistake there.
As I read it’s a 26t gross prime mover ?.
it should be able to run at up to 44t gross train weight ? given a three axle A frame trailer or 40t with a two axle A frame trailer ?.
Gross Train Weight can’t by definition apply to a close coupled trailer which imposes/transfers some of its load onto the prime mover moreso depending on weight distribution of the trailer load.
That’s Gross Combination Weight and generally means compromise on the Prime Mover’s gross weight to allow for trailer weight transfer.
But an A frame trailer generally means you can load the prime mover to it’s max gross.In that case the gross trailer weight is a totally separate entity added to the prime mover’s creating the GTW.Its anyone’s guess why a 26t gross prime mover would be limited to 35t gtw or even gcw.
And so begins another A frame debacle courtesy of carryfast
Time to exit the thread
[/quote]
I thought he was too busy explaining how brake discs/drums, calipers et al need to be replaced when the shoes are at 50% wear 
I’m just attempting to answer the OPs question, as to payload of a drawbar outfit, not start a row.
Understanding the difference between close coupled/gcw v A frame/ gtw is crucial in that.
The first question is why the low plated GCW/GTW figure for the prime mover ?.
The second question is close coupled or A frame.IE gcw or gtw.The former means that the trailer load and it’s weight distribution will affect the gross and axle weights applying on the prime mover.The latter won’t.
Carryfast:
The first question is why the low plated GCW/GTW figure for the prime mover ?.
^ Was wondering if the 35t is just referring to max gross trailer weight ?.IE around 60 tonnes which would be typical of a Scandinavian type application.As opposed to 40t - 44t max permissable here ?.
Either way if it’s a close coupled outfit you’ll need to get an accurate measurement of all the axle weights, on both the prime mover and trailer, in its loaded state, to reach any conclusion.
Carryfast:
I’m just attempting to answer the OPs question, as to payload of a drawbar outfit, not start a row.
Understanding the difference between close coupled/gcw v A frame/ gtw is crucial in that.
The first question is why the low plated GCW/GTW figure for the prime mover ?.
The second question is close coupled or A frame.IE gcw or gtw.The former means that the trailer load and it’s weight distribution will affect the gross and axle weights applying on the prime mover.The latter won’t.
(Spoiler alert)
GTW and GCW are the same thing, and have nothing to do with the trailer type…
(Popcorn ready)
WOOSH…
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
I’m just attempting to answer the OPs question, as to payload of a drawbar outfit, not start a row.
Understanding the difference between close coupled/gcw v A frame/ gtw is crucial in that.
The first question is why the low plated GCW/GTW figure for the prime mover ?.
The second question is close coupled or A frame.IE gcw or gtw.The former means that the trailer load and it’s weight distribution will affect the gross and axle weights applying on the prime mover.The latter won’t.(Spoiler alert)
GTW and GCW are the same thing, and have nothing to do with the trailer type…
(Popcorn ready)
So you think that a close coupled trailer transfers/imposes no weight onto the prime mover regardless of trailer weight distribution.
yourhavingalarf:
WOOSH…
As in the correct advice that the hitch weight, of a close coupled trailer, certainly does transfer to/is imposed on the prime mover’s ( generally drive/ rear axle ) weight and lifts it off the steer.Obviously moreso depending on trailer weight distribution.
UNLIKE ANY of the weight of an A frame type trailer which doesn’t transfer at all, regardless of its weight distribution.
Whoosh indeed.
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
I’m just attempting to answer the OPs question, as to payload of a drawbar outfit, not start a row.
Understanding the difference between close coupled/gcw v A frame/ gtw is crucial in that.
The first question is why the low plated GCW/GTW figure for the prime mover ?.
The second question is close coupled or A frame.IE gcw or gtw.The former means that the trailer load and it’s weight distribution will affect the gross and axle weights applying on the prime mover.The latter won’t.(Spoiler alert)
GTW and GCW are the same thing, and have nothing to do with the trailer type…
(Popcorn ready)
So you think that a close coupled trailer transfers/imposes no weight onto the prime mover regardless of trailer weight distribution.
If you load it properly the weight imposed on the prime mover with a close coupled trailer will be minimal.
Computer controlled air suspension will keep it balanced.
trucken:
Computer controlled air suspension will keep it balanced.
That’s ^^^^ witchcraft, and as CF will have zero experience of it coupled to the fact that Wikipedia makes no mention of it he’ll undoubtedly ■■■ ■■■ your assertion.
trucken:
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
I’m just attempting to answer the OPs question, as to payload of a drawbar outfit, not start a row.
Understanding the difference between close coupled/gcw v A frame/ gtw is crucial in that.
The first question is why the low plated GCW/GTW figure for the prime mover ?.
The second question is close coupled or A frame.IE gcw or gtw.The former means that the trailer load and it’s weight distribution will affect the gross and axle weights applying on the prime mover.The latter won’t.(Spoiler alert)
GTW and GCW are the same thing, and have nothing to do with the trailer type…
(Popcorn ready)
So you think that a close coupled trailer transfers/imposes no weight onto the prime mover regardless of trailer weight distribution.
If you load it properly the weight imposed on the prime mover with a close coupled trailer will be minimal.
Computer controlled air suspension will keep it balanced.
Define load it properly assuming a load that that doesn’t have perfect weight distribution across the trailer.
Yes agreed according to Dave this air suspension is obviously miraculous stuff so go ahead load the prime mover to its max gross and the trailer air suspension will ensure zero hitch weight every time, not more or less regardless of what’s loaded on it and where.
[quote
If you load it properly the weight imposed on the prime mover with a close coupled trailer will be minimal.
Computer controlled air suspension will keep it balanced.[/quote]
Define load it properly assuming a load that that doesn’t have perfect weight distribution across the trailer.
Yes agreed according to Dave this air suspension is obviously miraculous stuff so go ahead load the prime mover to its max gross and the trailer air suspension will ensure zero hitch weight every time, not more or less regardless of what’s loaded on it and where.
[/quote]
I’ve obviously been doing it wrong for the last 25 years!