I am confused, sorry to hijack the thread a tad 
I have a drawbar on my licence CE with restriction 102 so is that the same set up you are talking about here?
I have never towed with a drawbar but its there due to taking my test in the 80’s class 3.
What is getting me is I have the entitlement (if you could confirm) but I know I cant drive artics, yet I think I can drive W+D but I can take a test for an artic in a W+D if I so wished?
If you got your head around that is it correct?
Cheers
Drift:
I am confused, sorry to hijack the thread a tadI have a drawbar on my licence CE with restriction 102 so is that the same set up you are talking about here?
I have never towed with a drawbar but its there due to taking my test in the 80’s class 3.
What is getting me is I have the entitlement (if you could confirm) but I know I cant drive artics, yet I think I can drive W+D but I can take a test for an artic in a W+D if I so wished?If you got your head around that is it correct?
Cheers
You are quite correct - the current system would let you take a test in a W&D and this would upgrade you to a full C+E licence which would mean you could drive artics.
Not saying it isn’t a bit bonkers as you can already drive a W&D all day every dat if you wanted to 
John
As a follow on to the debate - we use W&D for training and our vehicles are 18.5m long - this is 2m longer than a training “artic” is allowed to be - and 90% at least of our drivers go on to drive artics in the real world with little or no difficulty
Cheers Chev, the boss keeps half joking about shoving a drag on my truck…hmmm this could be good 
Many thanks
As your licence stands you can drive W&D but not artics.
You can take your CE test in and W&D and have the entitlement to drive artics once you pass.
Why you wouldn’t do this I have no idea as it adds flexibility and makes you more attractive to employers if you ever need to look for work
My thoughts exactly Tom, more bows to my string and that.
With more experience I would like to learn more about moving plant as I am halfway there with what I do now
Well after the Christmas financial hit I think that’s my aim for the spring 
Tipper Tom:
I’ve said it before if I was training again now I would do wag and drag with Peter and no one else
Yes of course Pete runs a great training school, but there are also other very good training providers on this forum as well
Paul
90% at least of our drivers go on to drive artics in the real world with little or no difficulty
My experience exactly.
Pete 
Peter Smythe:
chevmac:
90% at least of our drivers go on to drive artics in the real world with little or no difficultyMy experience exactly.
How do you trainers know that 90% or more of your trainees who learn on W&D have little or no difficulty driving an artic ?
On these forums we get posts from people saying they learned in a W&D and now need advice about using an artic.
tachograph:
Peter Smythe:
chevmac:
90% at least of our drivers go on to drive artics in the real world with little or no difficultyMy experience exactly.
How do you trainers know that 90% or more of your trainees who learn on W&D have little or no difficulty driving an artic ?
On these forums we get posts from people saying they learned in a W&D and now need advice about using an artic.
Any FOOL can go in a straight line forward 
Mind I do wonder some times if for some that to is too difficult .
nick2008:
tachograph:
Peter Smythe:
chevmac:
90% at least of our drivers go on to drive artics in the real world with little or no difficultyMy experience exactly.
How do you trainers know that 90% or more of your trainees who learn on W&D have little or no difficulty driving an artic ?
On these forums we get posts from people saying they learned in a W&D and now need advice about using an artic.
Any FOOL can go in a straight line forward
Mind I do wonder some times if for some that to is too difficult
Sure but people who are not fools don’t want to use an artic only to go forward in straight lines do they.
Also people who learn on W&D rarely know how to couple/uncouple an artic, and as two trainers have said 90% of drivers end up driving artics not W&D.
Well, I learnt in an artic (loaded for good measure) and just as well, when 10 months after passing my test I went on a mission for an agency, turned up at the job thrown some keys and sent to do a delivery and collection in an artic. It was bad enough driving an auto for the first time, without having to learn the nuances of reversing and coupling as well. Fortunately I got on the bay first time (and between two other trailers for that matter!). Not even sure if you can learn in a W&D in France.
tachograph:
nick2008:
tachograph:
Peter Smythe:
chevmac:
90% at least of our drivers go on to drive artics in the real world with little or no difficultyMy experience exactly.
How do you trainers know that 90% or more of your trainees who learn on W&D have little or no difficulty driving an artic ?
On these forums we get posts from people saying they learned in a W&D and now need advice about using an artic.
Any FOOL can go in a straight line forward
Mind I do wonder some times if for some that to is too difficult
Sure but people who are not fools don’t want to use an artic only to go forward in straight lines do they.
Also people who learn on W&D rarely know how to couple/uncouple an artic, and as two trainers have said 90% of drivers end up driving artics not W&D.
At no stage did I say that 90% of drivers who pass on W+ D go on to drive artics.
What I did say that the percentage of trainees who then go onto Artic do so without any major problems - forward or back.
How do I know this- our customers don’t just pass their test and disappear never to be heard from again- a very high percentage keep in touch and funnily enough pop in for a brew in their work vehicles, quite a few of which are artics.
I’m not on here to sell courses but help people with information - why would I post something that isn’t the case?.
John
elmet training:
Tipper Tom:
I’ve said it before if I was training again now I would do wag and drag with Peter and no one elseYes of course Pete runs a great training school, but there are also other very good training providers on this forum as well
Paul
Please don’t take my post as a slight I just meant that from reading his posts and other peoples diaries on here I think I would find training with Peter’s organisation would suit me better.
It’s a moot point anyway as I already have CE and intend to keep it
I know someone who had a c-e licence with a w&d restriction, he went to take his full lessons in an artic, nearly took out the centre bollards at a right turn junction cos he didn, t realise the different way the trailor cut in
That’s a different thing altogether. The guy has a w+d restriction on CE - meaning that he passed either class 2 or 3 before 1997. He would have had NO training with a trailer and we don’t know what experience, if any.
If he nearly had bollards down, that’s as much down to poor training on the artic as his own current lack of ability.
I understand the point you’re getting at - but it’s flawed.
Pete
He had been driving w&d car transporters for a while, so had got experience with towing trailers
He didn, t realise the difference between how much a drag runs the same line as the prime mover to how much a proper artic trailer cuts in on corners
if he had been in a w&d at the time, he would have got round the corner without hitting the bollards, but, he was using the artic for his lessons, as he was going for a job driving full CE truck, it was decided by his future boss to do the test in a full artic, not a w&d
If that’s the case, the instructor needs taking into a corner and slapping! It’s total madness to put anyone in that situation if they dont understand how the vehicle will react.
Pete
scania730lover:
He had been driving w&d car transporters for a while, so had got experience with towing trailersHe didn, t realise the difference between how much a drag runs the same line as the prime mover to how much a proper artic trailer cuts in on corners
if he had been in a w&d at the time, he would have got round the corner without hitting the bollards, but, he was using the artic for his lessons, as he was going for a job driving full CE truck, it was decided by his future boss to do the test in a full artic, not a w&d
This could happen on a rigid truck after driving a short base rigid for a while then changing to a long base.
Any good experienced driver would drive with caution whilst getting the feel of a new vehicle combination.
Maybe a few more mirror checks and better positioning would have been advisable whilst cornering.
Paul
It happened in my rigid, an unnamed artic driver at our place with many years experience used my wagon for a day and admitted all the way to his first pick up he had the “drive it like a big car” mantra (steering) in his head and was pleased with his progress right up until he reversed through the gates at the pick up and automatically thought he was in his own truck, he nearly took out the gate post to a cheer of onlookers
He got back to our depot calling the wagon and the 4 over 4 gearbox quite a lot of naughty words…oh how we laughed