when i was at college, we got the equivellent of YTS money. £27.50 per week, which went up to £28.50 per week.
my middle son is at college, and he gets £20 per week EMA, whatever that means.
with the following link you can work out what you was earning years ago, and work out what it should be now.
are things as bad as people say?
Those figures don’t seem to add up.If it’s right that £1,000 in 1964 is around £14,000 today then the type of house which I’m living in now,which cost around £5,500 when it was new then,would only be worth around £ 77,000 today.Whereas it would actually cost closer to £300,000.
Carryfast:
Those figures don’t seem to add up.If it’s right that £1,000 in 1964 is around £14,000 today then the type of house which I’m living in now,which cost around £5,500 when it was new then,would only be worth around £ 77,000 today.Whereas it would actually cost closer to £300,000.
Property prices haven’t risen at the rate of inflation. 
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
Those figures don’t seem to add up.If it’s right that £1,000 in 1964 is around £14,000 today then the type of house which I’m living in now,which cost around £5,500 when it was new then,would only be worth around £ 77,000 today.Whereas it would actually cost closer to £300,000.Property prices haven’t risen at the rate of inflation.
A gallon of petrol only cost less than £1 per gallon in 1979 so if their figures were right it would only be around £3.50 now.
Inflation fugures are just a big con.They say that it’s low to suit them when it comes to calculating wage levels and then say that any prices which don’t match the fiddled figures are rising ‘above the rate of inflation’.No surprise that there’s more prices rising above the so called ‘rate of inflation’ than the ones that aren’t.While wage levels aren’t even rising at the fiddled rate of inflation let alone the true one. 
Carryfast:
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
Those figures don’t seem to add up.If it’s right that £1,000 in 1964 is around £14,000 today then the type of house which I’m living in now,which cost around £5,500 when it was new then,would only be worth around £ 77,000 today.Whereas it would actually cost closer to £300,000.Property prices haven’t risen at the rate of inflation.
A gallon of petrol only cost less than £1 per gallon in 1979 so if their figures were right it would only be around £3.50 now.
Inflation fugures are just a big con.They say that it’s low to suit them when it comes to calculating wage levels and then say that any prices which don’t match the fiddled figures are rising ‘above the rate of inflation’.No urprise that there’s more prices rising above the so called ‘rate of inflation’ than the ones that aren’t.
They are a bit, especially when the last lot fudged the definitions to look better.
That said, think what a colour TV cost back then or a dishwasher compared to now 
And that’s the whole reason we’re still in recession. An average house for an average family should be affordable on the average wage. Unfortunately, the lenders approved everyone because the more they leant, the more commission they earnt. That lead to 125% mortgages, even more bonus. Then, the low life estate agents, once governed to provide a modest valuation based on mortgages for average earners, jumped on the band waggon. Over inflating values, knowing the mortgage will be ok, for higher bunce. Fast forward ten years and here we are. Joe Bloggs can’t go on hol, buy a new tv or sofa, because he’s trying to pay his £1000 a month mortgage on his £250k house, that shoulder only been £70k. We won’t be out of recession until the house prices crash
OVLOV JAY:
And that’s the whole reason we’re still in recession. An average house for an average family should be affordable on the average wage. Unfortunately, the lenders approved everyone because the more they leant, the more commission they earnt. That lead to 125% mortgages, even more bonus. Then, the low life estate agents, once governed to provide a modest valuation based on mortgages for average earners, jumped on the band waggon. Over inflating values, knowing the mortgage will be ok, for higher bunce. Fast forward ten years and here we are. Joe Bloggs can’t go on hol, buy a new tv or sofa, because he’s trying to pay his £1000 a month mortgage on his £250k house, that shoulder only been £70k. We won’t be out of recession until the house prices crash
If house prices crash the banks will just be where they were in the US and Ireland where it’s already happened because all the debt is secured at the original valuations.It’s the wages side of the equation that needs to be sorted to get wages back in line with prices and then that’s the time to start using price controls.A house price crash to match the present lag in wage levels compared to prices would break the economy.
OVLOV JAY:
And that’s the whole reason we’re still in recession. An average house for an average family should be affordable on the average wage. Unfortunately, the lenders approved everyone because the more they leant, the more commission they earnt. That lead to 125% mortgages, even more bonus. Then, the low life estate agents, once governed to provide a modest valuation based on mortgages for average earners, jumped on the band waggon. Over inflating values, knowing the mortgage will be ok, for higher bunce. Fast forward ten years and here we are. Joe Bloggs can’t go on hol, buy a new tv or sofa, because he’s trying to pay his £1000 a month mortgage on his £250k house, that shoulder only been £70k. We won’t be out of recession until the house prices crash
Much truth here!
44 Tonne Ton:
OVLOV JAY:
And that’s the whole reason we’re still in recession. An average house for an average family should be affordable on the average wage. Unfortunately, the lenders approved everyone because the more they leant, the more commission they earnt. That lead to 125% mortgages, even more bonus. Then, the low life estate agents, once governed to provide a modest valuation based on mortgages for average earners, jumped on the band waggon. Over inflating values, knowing the mortgage will be ok, for higher bunce. Fast forward ten years and here we are. Joe Bloggs can’t go on hol, buy a new tv or sofa, because he’s trying to pay his £1000 a month mortgage on his £250k house, that shoulder only been £70k. We won’t be out of recession until the house prices crashMuch truth here!
That said, if wages shot up would the masses pay off the mortgage debt, credit cards etc ■■? Would they hell they’d go and spend it which is although good for the economy as a whole just starts the circle once more. What’s also needed is a shift in peoples thinking, perceptions and realities.
The EMA finished March last year to new students and they now have to apply for a means tested bursary so your lad is better off than the current 16-19 year-olds.
The whole education system is being driven into the ground by Gove and co. anyway, with schools being coerced into taking academy status the ‘discretionary’ part of the bursary is going to be almost non-existent as it will eat into the school’s profits. When the brown stuff hits the fan & the government find they have an even bigger number of disaffected youngsters in the community Gove & co. will have their peerages/pensions & will leave the mess for someone else to clear up.
tallyman:
The EMA finished March last year to new students and they now have to apply for a means tested bursary so your lad is better off than the current 16-19 year-olds.The whole education system is being driven into the ground by Gove and co. anyway, with schools being coerced into taking academy status the ‘discretionary’ part of the bursary is going to be almost non-existent as it will eat into the school’s profits. When the brown stuff hits the fan & the government find they have an even bigger number of disaffected youngsters in the community Gove & co. will have their peerages/pensions & will leave the mess for someone else to clear up.
if i was a betting man i’d bet the majority of EMA money went on ■■■■ and beer, it takes the pressure off to do a part time job. i never got anything when i was at collage 17 years ago, nor did i expect or think i should’ve got owt.
Carryfast:
OVLOV JAY:
And that’s the whole reason we’re still in recession. An average house for an average family should be affordable on the average wage. Unfortunately, the lenders approved everyone because the more they leant, the more commission they earnt. That lead to 125% mortgages, even more bonus. Then, the low life estate agents, once governed to provide a modest valuation based on mortgages for average earners, jumped on the band waggon. Over inflating values, knowing the mortgage will be ok, for higher bunce. Fast forward ten years and here we are. Joe Bloggs can’t go on hol, buy a new tv or sofa, because he’s trying to pay his £1000 a month mortgage on his £250k house, that shoulder only been £70k. We won’t be out of recession until the house prices crashIf house prices crash the banks will just be where they were in the US and Ireland where it’s already happened because all the debt is secured at the original valuations.It’s the wages side of the equation that needs to be sorted to get wages back in line with prices and then that’s the time to start using price controls.A house price crash to match the present lag in wage levels compared to prices would break the economy.
do you think that if wages rise house prices wouldn’t?
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
OVLOV JAY:
And that’s the whole reason we’re still in recession. An average house for an average family should be affordable on the average wage. Unfortunately, the lenders approved everyone because the more they leant, the more commission they earnt. That lead to 125% mortgages, even more bonus. Then, the low life estate agents, once governed to provide a modest valuation based on mortgages for average earners, jumped on the band waggon. Over inflating values, knowing the mortgage will be ok, for higher bunce. Fast forward ten years and here we are. Joe Bloggs can’t go on hol, buy a new tv or sofa, because he’s trying to pay his £1000 a month mortgage on his £250k house, that shoulder only been £70k. We won’t be out of recession until the house prices crashIf house prices crash the banks will just be where they were in the US and Ireland where it’s already happened because all the debt is secured at the original valuations.It’s the wages side of the equation that needs to be sorted to get wages back in line with prices and then that’s the time to start using price controls.A house price crash to match the present lag in wage levels compared to prices would break the economy.
do you think that if wages rise house prices wouldn’t?
Not if interest rates went up in line with the wage rises and banks limited mortgages to the existing values.As I said wages need to be brought into line with prices first and then that’s the time to control prices.Which would also solve the present situation of savers subsidising low wage levels by savings rates that don’t even match inflation let alone provide growth and income on those savings. 
I think that’s probably the only way that would stand a chance of working unlike the results of what would happen if there was a house price ‘correction’ to match those figures given in which a £300,000 house would only be worth £77,000 .In which case what would happen to all the debt in current mortgages secured on the previous valuations.As I said if that type of debt had to be written off it would probably break the banks.
Not everyone’s houses will be affected. The ones who have lived in their houses for 20 or more years will be ok, as a crash wouldn’t put them into negative equity. It’s only the ones who bought in recent times with massive mortgages. Mostly first time buyers. Don’t forget, people that bought for the second, third, fourth or so time, have quite small mortgages after making a killing on previous property. This would only affect the ones with massive mortgages. I reckon the banks could survive that. Although I do prefer your idea of raising wages to the prices of houses. I should be on £50k a year any day now 
Some interesting stuff being thrown about here! 
Here’s my fifty pence worth (adjusted for inflation!);
Inflation is too much credit chasing too little product. Note the use of the word “credit”.
In our day and age, wages are deflating, so cash is increasing in value. Debts also increase in value under wages deflation, so credit (or at least NEW credit!) HAS to be losing value - it is ever less affordable right?
Example: Lending £1000 ten years ago @ 26.9% barclaycard rate was considered a “cushy deal” for the issuing bank. 
Today, we have firms like zupa & co that consider lending £100 @ 2690.0% (and more!) rates “a dodgy deal” by comparison!
Can anyone tell me what on earth is worth buying tht is worth the borrowing at those kind of rates??
This is opposed to actually waiting for payday and going without in the interim? Is anyone actually going to starve in these days of benefits all around…
Personally, I think the country is as hooked on credit as it is on petroleum. 
Retail banking makes most of it’s money creating around £14 in credit for every £1 that is actually deposited by savers.
Technically speaking, ALL high street banks are therefore permenently INSOLVENT in the same fashion the “Emperor is in fact stark bollock naked” Confidence started to fall in 2008 between the banks themselves, but the public didn’t lose confidence, since those with savings are too bone idle to do anything about moving their money elsewhere, and those with borrowings suddenly became UNABLE to move their borrowings elsewhere. The credit crunch is about the available cheap credit that keeps us back from moving around the country to get that promotion, amongst other things.
Yet people still have not given up the use of ever more expensive credit. They have not given up gas-guzzling vehicles, continue paying through the nose for many things that should be free, or at least extremely cheap by this point. Eg. Why don’t footballers take a 95% pay cut (still giving them £100k+ wages!) and firms like BskyB cut their subscription charges too?
Life SHOULD be getting cheaper as wages and asset values fall. Instead, people’s cash seems to be falling in value - at least if it is in a bank account - and we’re told that asset prices (Gold, Property, Business inventories) are not going anywhere…
More prancing down the street naked I think!
If you offer 100 people fifty pence or a turd you say is worth a tenner, then when most people take the turd, the guy who took the 50p (people like me!) start looking like right prats I can tell you! Just to rub it in, a huge re-sale market in the price of turds sees a lot of people trading up, making money, building a hefty lifestyle, and muggins stands alone with his 50p left out of all the “fools boom” that is in progress. The bank even tells the hapless small saver that “putting your money in our establishment will result in us confiscating it over time using inflation” - and this is where myself and the other small savers part company.
Enough is enough I say, I declare myself as the enemy of inflation as of 2004, refuse to partake in credit, and start living within my means. Straight away, I find my cash going further! 
Then one by one, I find out that all those credit agreements are not worth the paper they are written on!
Finally, I come to realise that credit itself is the biggest conspiricy against the public that is designed to keep working class folk in their place, whilst the rich get richer effectively charging people to earn and spend and live with what was once their own cash!
Trust me my friends, until you’re looking back at this holodeck world from the outside, you’ll not realise how easy it would be for everyone to sort themselves out - both small saver and borrower - just by refusing to partake in this public swindle that is credit any longer.
Maybe some of you have already started… Walk into a shop with a wad instead of plastic, refuse to buy unless you get a hefty discount. If the guy in the tie refuses to do the deal, you walk, and tell his superiors how he turned you down on a big sale, as he was reluctant to take your cash! Make waves.
BE a pain in the arse to everyone who doesn’t realise that the gurner earner with that hod full of wad should be treated like a PRINCE at his point, not the credit refusenik that he actually is…
Savers should refuse to bank at crap rates. Hoard it instead, refuse to spend it until the price is right for YOU!
Borrowers cannot shift their borrowings around onto lower rates anymore. Ok then, refuse to line the pockets of the system further by refusing to change deals, and stand pat. What do you need a new deal for anyway? More borrowing? Deal you’ve got is a bum one?
Better still, if you find yourself out of work, default all the unsecured credit, and continue paying the mortgage on benefits, or if that mortgage is too high, get yourself into rented accommodation and have the overcharging council you didn’t elect pay for it instead. Going into a retirement home? FFS - Sell the house and make the money disappear before the state confiscates it all!
I paid into the system for 22 years, and I got no richer in that time despite working 50-60 hour weeks. The introduction of WTD cut my pay. The Recession cut my pay. Foreigners taking over competing businesses cut my pay. My only outlet - my vote - made no difference. Even the late Sir James Goldsmith spending millions on Ukip didn’t get them a single seat, let alone any changes in the government.
If the government say they are going to rip you off even more in the future, then it’s upto the public do actually do something about it beyond merely voting Ukip at the next election, which we know from 1997 experience won’t make any difference.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law. For everything else there’s ‘grab it, hoard it, and don’t let it go!’
Winseer:
Some interesting stuff being thrown about here!Here’s my fifty pence worth (adjusted for inflation!);
Inflation is too much credit chasing too little product. Note the use of the word “credit”.
In our day and age, wages are deflating, so cash is increasing in value. Debts also increase in value under wages deflation, so credit (or at least NEW credit!) HAS to be losing value - it is ever less affordable right?
Example: Lending £1000 ten years ago @ 26.9% barclaycard rate was considered a “cushy deal” for the issuing bank.
Today, we have firms like zupa & co that consider lending £100 @ 2690.0% (and more!) rates “a dodgy deal” by comparison!
Can anyone tell me what on earth is worth buying tht is worth the borrowing at those kind of rates??
This is opposed to actually waiting for payday and going without in the interim? Is anyone actually going to starve in these days of benefits all around…Personally, I think the country is as hooked on credit as it is on petroleum.
Retail banking makes most of it’s money creating around £14 in credit for every £1 that is actually deposited by savers.
Technically speaking, ALL high street banks are therefore permenently INSOLVENT in the same fashion the “Emperor is in fact stark bollock naked” Confidence started to fall in 2008 between the banks themselves, but the public didn’t lose confidence, since those with savings are too bone idle to do anything about moving their money elsewhere, and those with borrowings suddenly became UNABLE to move their borrowings elsewhere. The credit crunch is about the available cheap credit that keeps us back from moving around the country to get that promotion, amongst other things.Yet people still have not given up the use of ever more expensive credit. They have not given up gas-guzzling vehicles, continue paying through the nose for many things that should be free, or at least extremely cheap by this point. Eg. Why don’t footballers take a 95% pay cut (still giving them £100k+ wages!) and firms like BskyB cut their subscription charges too?
Life SHOULD be getting cheaper as wages and asset values fall. Instead, people’s cash seems to be falling in value - at least if it is in a bank account - and we’re told that asset prices (Gold, Property, Business inventories) are not going anywhere…
More prancing down the street naked I think!If you offer 100 people fifty pence or a turd you say is worth a tenner, then when most people take the turd, the guy who took the 50p (people like me!) start looking like right prats I can tell you!
Enough is enough I say, I declare myself as the enemy of inflation as of 2004, refuse to partake in credit, and start living within my means. Straight away, I find my cash going further!
Then one by one, I find out that all those credit agreements are not worth the paper they are written on!
Finally, I come to realise that credit itself is the biggest conspiricy against the public that is designed to keep working class folk in their place, whilst the rich get richer effectively charging people to earn and spend and live with what was once their own cash!Trust me my friends, until you’re looking back at this holodeck world from the outside, you’ll not realise how easy it would be for everyone to sort themselves out - both small saver and borrower - just by refusing to partake in this public swindle that is credit any longer.
Maybe some of you have already started… Walk into a shop with a wad instead of plastic, refuse to buy unless you get a hefty discount. If the guy in the tie refuses to do the deal, you walk, and tell his superiors how he turned you down on a big sale, as he was reluctant to take your cash! Make waves.
BE a pain in the arse to everyone who doesn’t realise that the gurner earner with that hod full of wad should be treated like a PRINCE at his point, not the credit refusenik that he actually is…
Savers should refuse to bank at crap rates. Hoard it instead, refuse to spend it until the price is right for YOU!
Borrowers cannot shift their borrowings around onto lower rates anymore. Ok then, refuse to line the pockets of the system further by refusing to change deals, and stand pat. What do you need a new deal for anyway? More borrowing? Deal you’ve got is a bum one?Better still, if you find yourself out of work, default all the unsecured credit, and continue paying the mortgage on benefits, or if that mortgage is too high, get yourself into rented accommodation and have the overcharging council you didn’t elect pay for it instead. Going into a retirement home? FFS - Sell the house and make the money disappear before the state confiscates it all!
I paid into the system for 22 years, and I got no richer in that time despite working 50-60 hour weeks. The introduction of WTD cut my pay. The Recession cut my pay. Foreigners taking over competing businesses cut my pay. My only outlet - my vote - made no difference. Even the late Sir James Goldsmith spending millions on Ukip didn’t get them a single seat, let alone any changes in the government.
If the government say they are going to rip you off even more in the future, then it’s upto the public do actually do something about it beyond merely voting Ukip at the next election, which we know from 1997 experience won’t make any difference.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law. For everything else there’s ‘grab it, hoard it, and don’t let it go!’
Excessive use of credit is just a symptom of a low wage culture.The more wages lag behind prices the more credit people need to make up the shortfall.Which is why unlike during the 1960’s and early 1970’s there’s not many people who can put down a 50% deposit on a house which just means loads more mortgage being instead.If what you’re saying about people being able to manage as things are without credit then see what would happen if they increased mortgage lending rates to around the 12% where they should be for savers to get a realistic return.The problem is just zb wages caused by the loss of union power and the rigging of the labour market by exposing the economy to cheap labour in all it’s forms like cheap imports and immigrant labour.
OVLOV JAY:
Not everyone’s houses will be affected. The ones who have lived in their houses for 20 or more years will be ok, as a crash wouldn’t put them into negative equity. It’s only the ones who bought in recent times with massive mortgages. Mostly first time buyers. Don’t forget, people that bought for the second, third, fourth or so time, have quite small mortgages after making a killing on previous property. This would only affect the ones with massive mortgages. I reckon the banks could survive that.
If you’re right then the US and Irish banks never would have got into the problems which they actually did caused by exactly such a price correction.While in the states they’ve still got loads of homeless people who’ve had their houses re po’d now living in tent cities because they can’t afford to pay for a house at any price.
My house is massively in negative equity. I don’t care, as it has been since 2004, and I used it to pay handsome dividends elsewhere.
Negative equity isn’t a problem unless you have to sell. I won’t be going anywhere, so I won’t have to sell either. My taxable income is already minimised, and made up by non-taxable elements. I anticipate staying like this until around 2016 at which point I’ll be looking for a full-time job again, having made the most out of the rather unsavoury aspects of the UK labour market as it is at present.
In the meantime, the money I’m not losing/wasting on interest/just wasting is more than what I’d get if I took a full time job.
It’s not what you earn, it’s what you don’t spend that improves your household finances!
Winseer:
My house is massively in negative equity. I don’t care, as it has been since 2004, and I used it to pay handsome dividends elsewhere.Negative equity isn’t a problem unless you have to sell. I won’t be going anywhere, so I won’t have to sell either. My taxable income is already minimised, and made up by non-taxable elements. I anticipate staying like this until around 2016 at which point I’ll be looking for a full-time job again, having made the most out of the rather unsavoury aspects of the UK labour market as it is at present.
In the meantime, the money I’m not losing/wasting on interest/just wasting is more than what I’d get if I took a full time job.
It’s not what you earn, it’s what you don’t spend that improves your household finances!
The definition of negative equity means that you owe more for the mortgage on the house,based on it’s previous value, than it’s actually worth now.So unless the value rebounds the money has already been lost by you in the sense that it’s a depreciating asset with a loan that you’re still liable for that isn’t depreciating.That liability then transfers to the bank if you eventually have to do the same thing as many others have done in the past by walking away and seeking protection from the debt.
In view of the fact that the future growth of the economy all depends on people spending again your last sentence seems to show how likely it is that your place,like thousands of others out there,will rebound in value considering that the whole economic policy of the government has been based on that idea since the late 1970’s,and if no one spends then there’ll be no growth.Which means even less employment and less wages for those who are in employment so even more repossesions and even lower house values and even more negative equity.Which is why savers are only getting less than the rate of inflation on their money.
The government knows that it’s caught in the catch 22 of many home buyers being unable to pass their real housing costs on into the economy and therefore can’t actually afford those costs at any price without the subsidy of artificially low interest rates to subsidise the present low income levels which is all the global free market economy is able to provide now and for the foreseeable future.That type of economy can only end in tears and it’s just a matter of time although road fuel at £6 per gallon will probably help to sink the place even faster.
How true Winseer, Maggie started it with { right to buy} only to keep the same people in a job at no matter what wages just to keep the mortgage alive , otherwise they lose the house , the only way to beat the banks is to spend what you can afford to spend and if you spend then pay in cash, let them stick their credit schemes