Excellent recall there Tom ! Fortunately 4 in lines had died a death before I entered the industry although there were still many in service in the late 60’s and my former employer Brady’s ran a good few behind the LAD Leylands which as you alluded to were as a result of the C & U rules at the time. The Four in line combination were, I believe, the most cost effective and lightest means of operating at the then 24ton GVW with the only means of a higher GVW being an 8 wheeler and trailer at 32 tons GVW. I note that all the main trailer manufactures of the era produced the ubiquitous 4 in line such as Cranes, Boden, York, Scammell and, of course not forgetting BTC who purported to be the “market leaders” in the 4 in line market ( might have been a bit of BS from Jim Walmsley who, correct me if I am wrong, was Sales Director at BTC) So Tom was the Crane 4 in line considered by W & J R to have been the best available of a bad lot ? Regards Dennis.
gazsa401:
May I ask Mr Riding a question
I’m a big Gardner fan I served my time as a apprentice on them also when I started working the fleet was still approximately 80% Gardner powered
All gave sterling service except the odd bad egg
We ran a a mixture of 6LXB/C 6 and 8LXCTs 6LXDTs and a handful of 6LYTs
Does Mr Riding have any recollections of any major failings with the above engines
We had 2 6 LYTs which were terrible but the other 3 were very reliable
Thanks Gary
Butting in here Gary, with apologies. At Tilcon we had a fleet of 6LXB and 6LXC powered Fodens and Sed Ak 400’s. The LXB’s were not too bad, they did seize pistons and drop valves though and I think I rebuilt all of them. The LXC’s suffered with overheating from new, Gardner supplied modified water pump impellers, a larger water rail for the cylinder heads which helped but we still had piston seizures with them. They also drank oil from new, Gardner supplied us with new LXB cylinder heads complete with valves, rockers etc to fit in their place and that cured the problem. Very little actually existed of the original LXC unit! 
We never had any LYT’s though, we changed to a virtually fully Rolls engined fleet and they gave very few problems.
Pete.
Bewick:
So Tom was the Crane 4 in line considered by W & J R to have been the best available of a bad lot ? Regards Dennis.
Hi Dennis
Short answer is yes Dennis.
For a start the Crane used standard wheel rims and we had them fitted with Michelin D20 metallic tyres because we hoped the stiff sidewalls would help to reduce rock and roll.
The foundation brakes were quite wide and the air chambers were attached directly to the brake operating arms, no linkage to wear!
The wheel bearings were a good size and gave no trouble.
The road spring was short and firm and was slipper ended and this also again helped to reduce roll.
Apart from adjusting the brakes maintenance was almost nil.
You may also notice from the two accident photos one trailer has a Rubery Owen pressed steel frame but by the time the other one had entered service Crane had sold out to Freuhauf and they subsequently introduced the welded I beam frame which was soon to become the industry standard.
All said and done they performed admirably for many years and our drivers on this side of the Irish sea always managed to keep them the right way up.
Regards,
Tom.
Hi Tom and MML,
Many thanks for the answer to my question on 4 in lines. Your comment about the ability to use a standard wheel was interesting as in 1969 when I acquired my second “A” licenced motor, a 26ton Mastiff and tandem 4 32 ft Primrose trailer, I didn’t want those centre knave wheels in use on the likes of the Pitt T/Four so I got Primrose to build the trailer using wide track axles so I was able to utilise the normal 1100 x 22:5 wheels shod with Mich X tyres. Incidentally the hub assemblies used were the same as those on the front axle of the Mastiff ! Regards to you both Dennis.
gazsa401:
May I ask Mr Riding a question
I’m a big Gardner fan I served my time as a apprentice on them also when I started working the fleet was still approximately 80% Gardner powered
All gave sterling service except the odd bad egg
We ran a a mixture of 6LXB/C 6 and 8LXCTs 6LXDTs and a handful of 6LYTs
Does Mr Riding have any recollections of any major failings with the above engines
We had 2 6 LYTs which were terrible but the other 3 were very reliable
Thanks Gary
Hi Gary,
What a box you have opened nevertheless I will try to give you an indication of our experiences with them.
Our third Atkinson tractor unit Reg No ETC 920B pictured above had ‘Engine No 142760’ which ran faultlessly for 394,000 miles on one of the hardest jobs we had.
It burnt a tip off an injector one night and was smoking like a train.
We took the engine out and rebuilt as a 180 and put it back to work and don’t recall any problems at all with the other 6LXs. 6LXB i loved these engines economical, durable and did exactly what it said on the tin.
We had trouble with two of them and in both cases it was our own fault.
Reg No BTE 180E ‘Engine No 155507’, pictured above, was the first 180 out of the Atkinson factory.
After 12 months or so we were advised by Patricroft to bring it in for suspect exhaust valves.
We ignored them thinking a Gardner couldn’t fail but it did and dropped a piece of a valve when on nights in Ilkley it was of course the fault of the screw driver slot on the face of the valve which had been removed from later engines.
A lesson was learnt and all the faulty heads were removed from our suspect engines and sent to Patricroft for new valves. The only other failure I remember was with Reg No MTC 690G ‘Engine No 162901’, picture here, which jumped the timing chain at Carlisle simply because we had not paid enough attention to the chain tension which is essential on these engines.
All our maintenance people were more switched on to Leyland engines which of course didn’t have a timing chain at all.
A salutary lesson was learned and it never happened again. The only 6LXCT was in this Seddon Atkinson 400 Series tractor unit Reg No WFR 370V.
This engine was one of a batch of five pre production ones which we were asked to trial in a Seddon Atkinson tractor unit.
We ran it 24 hours a day at 32 GVW and reported tonnage carried and fuel used to Gardner’s on a weekly basis.
For some reason it picked up on a piston at Carlisle on its way home one night.
Gardner’s were on strike at the time so our men repaired it in our workshops surrounded by Gardner people.
It had done around 250,000 miles at the time.
The engine was removed at 500,000 miles at Gardner’s request so that they could measure everything for wear and tear
and gave us a new one in its place.
This particular tractor unit eventually became a yard shunter and spent 17 years in use.
Gardner 240 and 300 LXCT.
We operated quite a lot of these engines and from memory they were no problems at all, in fact to me, they were a joy to see and hear.
I’m getting in front of myself because I do recollect the bagpipes on the 240 exhaust could be pain.
However the fact that after 8 or more years work you could still sell the engines for £2500 plus says it all.
6LYT 320HP 1030lb/ft torque and 15.4 liters capacity.
Early engines with the flat drive belts were a pain until the brackets were made at the angles.
From memory the big problem was the tappet blocks and followers on some engines that tended to have high rates of wear.
Replacement parts at this time were hard to get and the job of replacement was quite a big job needing the block separating from the crankcase.
We did have one bad scare on a 6LYT when it was very new but I can’t remember which one it was other than it was a Teesside motor.
It failed on the Dumfries run making big noises from the engine.
It was brought home to Longridge and I took into Patricroft the next day on the low-loader.
Mr Paul Gardner no less was awaiting my arrival to establish the problem.
Luckily for all concerned it was just a broken rocker lever and we all breathed a sigh of relief.
Both these two units used gallons of oil from day one but very soon they went back to Patricroft and were rebuilt and sorted. they went on to give 9 years trouble free service on general haulage.
6LXDT. 12,4 litre 290 bhp and 915 lb/ft torque.
We operated quite a lot of these engines and some were no trouble at all throughout their lives and in fact were very good.
However, some were an absolute problem.
Water pumps wore out in weeks and the pump drive shaft square end used to just quickly wear away resulting in over heating.
On some early engines the timing chain tensioner used to fail causing huge problems.
Spares were also difficult to obtain at this time and i think the standard of engine build quality had by this time gone to the dogs.
We had the last two Gardner engine vehicles to be produced at the Oldham factory in 1988 both were 6LXDT engine units.
I kid you not, but Reg F340 SHG which was one of these two failed with engine piston pick up 4 times before it got into service.
On one of these occasions a Gardner works fitter was with it at the time.
Eventually it was sorted and it ran successfully on the Shap -Ravenscraig lime movement 24/7 for many years.
Alas the Gardner engine story came to a sad and in glorious end along with a great deal of other great British industries.
These are a few of my experiences with the famous make and I hope you enjoy the story.
Regards
Tom Riding.
Couple of points I would like to raise Mr. Tom ----- BTE 180E !!! You must have “pulled some weight” with the then LCC Local Licencing Dept. in Preston ! “180E” 
and also on a more operational question, I know you Lancs Operators were probably tighter than Yorkshiremen with your Brass ( and thats saying summat !) but the fly sheet on the trailer coupled to BTE 180E is, to say the least, a bit on the “lean side” it must be barley 8ft 6" wide so that tells me you only ordered it 3 panels wide giving an 8ft 6" finish width. Who did you purchase your sheets from Tom if I can ask ? We used Leeches of Liverpool for many years but we also used Mitco Peck in later years then, of course, Boalloys became dominant and we built up a good stock of first class Mains and Flys which kept our Flats fully supplied so our Sheet purchases dropped off dramatically !I Not a serious technical questions I know but never the less all part of the Job and not an inexpensive one either ! Regards Dennis.
Thank you Mr Riding for your in-depth reply to my question
It was such a shame in my own opinion that the Gardner name and reputation was tarnished in their latter years of production like yourself the company I worked for ran many Gardner powered lorries well into double figures of service without any failures or reliability problems
Once again thank you very much for your reply
Kind regards Gary
Regarding the Gardner 6LXCT which Tom Riding had on trial in a Seddon Atkinson tractor unit running 24 hours a day i was fortunate enough to drive one from new back in 1981 when Lowfield Distribution purchased 33 ERF ‘C’ Series tractor units for their Sainsbury contract.
All had consecutive number plates from CNV 99X to CNV 132X
I drove CNV 129X for nine years and in all that time it never missed a beat clocking up over 600,000 miles in fact we never had any problems with any of the 6LXCT engines in all that time although i must say the were well looked after and serviced on a regular basis.
For the first six months some of us were asked to call into Gardners at Particroft from time to time so they could do some checks on the turbo’s but everything was always fine.
Paul, i must say its unbelievable the information that Tom kept for each truck. I particularly like that he can quote the price
paid for a vehicle and also the selling price.
DEANB:
Paul, i must say its unbelievable the information that Tom kept for each truck. I particularly like that he can quote the price
paid for a vehicle and also the selling price.
It goes without saying Dean Tom is a mine of information and his knowledge of Gardner engines is astounding. 
The Gardner 6LW engine knocked out No 5 big end on the way down to a rally near Shrewsbury in Shropshire.
The cab was taken off and the engine removed and sent to Paul Gardner Engineering for a complete rebuild to as new standard.
The picture above shows the engine in the process of rebuilding with Tom Riding operating the block and tackle while Mr Paul Gardner (right) is locating the front cylinder block. Tom Riding pictured with the newly rebuilt Gardner 6LW engine back at Longridge
shortly before installation into his restored Scammell Rigid 8 Reg No FJH 102.
The engine at this point still needed dressing ie the air compressor needed fitting as did the flywheel and clutch housing.
The complete history of Tom Ridings Scammell Scammell Rigid 8 - Reg No FJH 102 which was was brand new to Albright & Wilson of Widnes in October 1939 can be found HERE
Day cabbed Seddon Atkinson 4-11 Series 4x2 tractor unit Reg No F340 SHG Fleet No 14 ‘Firth of Clyde’ was registered new on the 1st of September 1988 at a cost of £27,781 plus vat.gazsa401:
Where they the last 2 Gardner powered 4-11s at Ridings Moomooland ?
Thanks Gary
Powered by a Gardner 6LXDT engine this particular tractor unit along with Reg No F110 SRN, which was registered on the same day, were the very last Gardner engined vehicles to leave the Seddon Atkinson factory.
They were bought specifically to haul lime from Shap quarry in ■■■■■■■ to the British Steel Corporation plant at Ravenscriag in Scotland running 24 hours a day 7 days a week. When Ravenscraig closed F340 SHG was transferred to Riding’s Thornaby depot and it was here that it met its end after coming to grief on the A59 just east of West Marten when it hit a tree and was written off.
Question for Tom ! How did the Shap to the 'Craig job operate, did you base the tanks at Shap and use local Drivers or was it operated by Scotsmen from the top end ? Regards Dennis.
moomooland:
Pictured below are two occasions on which our Crane Fruehauf four in line trailers came to grief in Northern Ireland
while being pulled by Northern Ireland Road Transport Board Leyland Beaver tractor units which were on contract to ICI Ltd.
Spot the pre-ISO Northern Ireland Trailers box in the background - that rather dates it!
moomooland:
gazsa401:
Where they the last 2 Gardner powered 4-11s at Ridings Moomooland ?
Thanks Gary1Day cabbed Seddon Atkinson 4-11 Series 4x2 tractor unit Reg No F340 SHG Fleet No 14 ‘Firth of Clyde’ was registered new on the 1st of September 1988 at a cost of £27,781 plus vat.
Powered by a Gardner 6LXDT engine this particular tractor unit along with Reg No F110 SRN, which was registered on the same day, were the very last Gardner engined vehicles to leave the Seddon Atkinson factory.
They were bought specifically to haul lime from Shap quarry in ■■■■■■■ to the British Steel Corporation plant at Ravenscriag in Scotland running 24 hours a day 7 days a week.0When Ravenscraig closed F340 SHG was transferred to Riding’s Thornaby depot and it was here that it met its end after coming to grief on the A59 just east of West Marten when it hit a tree and was written off.
Thanks again for your in-depth reply again it’s such a shame neither of them were saved for preservation
Thanks Gary
Just found this on social media nmp
Taken in the 80s on the Trans Pennine run
Bewick:
Question for Tom ! How did the Shap to the 'Craig job operate, did you base the tanks at Shap and use local Drivers or was it operated by Scotsmen from the top end ? Regards Dennis.
Hi Dennis,
The outfits were based at our Motherwell depot and crewed by local drivers.
Three outfits each did two loads every 24 hours carrying 25 tons.
It was quite an easy shift for the drivers either on nights or days.
On a previous question all our new sheets were supplied by either Mayor of Preston or M&S tarps of Rossendale.
Leach of Liverpool had a good system of collecting and delivering sheets for repair so they got all that business.
As you can imagine with the amount of steel plates we carried there was quite a lot of repairs.
Regards,
Tom.
pete smith:
Hi Paul, Would this have been one of Ridings on contract? Cheer’s Pete
No Pete after Riding’s finished they had a number of owner drivers hauling for them and later took their transport in house.