W.H.WILLIAMS (spennymoor)

Carl Williams:

v7victor:

Carl Williams:
Hope this photo turns out right and it is large enough to see, but it was me driving the old 2 tonner in spennymoor gala around about 1978.I wonder if you can spot the error in the photo?

Carl,your going the wrong way round the roundabout!!!Vic.

You know Vic we have had that photograph hanging on the wall in the enterance of our home for about 25 years, Many people have gone over and had a look at it and not one of them have realised that until they were told.

George Teasdale had and still has his photographers shop at the top of Spennymoor High Street, and I think he must have arranged with the police that the procession went that way round the roundabout so that he could take shots from the upstairs window of his shop,

Carl this is very good thread going back over all the years to before my years driving, to Spenny Rink the Pit Laddie and the North Eastern,these were the places to be on fridays and saturday nights good times ,Vic.

Exchanging views with Victor, who used to deliver diesel to us, while he worked for Phillips Petroleum in the early seventies reminded me of the events that stopped us using Phillips diesel.

Around this time of year about 1972 or 3 we must have enjoyed a spell of hot weather. On the A! Scotch Corner roundabout had been bypassed and over about a three week period we had about 10 or 12 Bedford TKs with both the 330 cu in engine and the 466 engine suffer the same fate of dropping a valve and which in some cases simply bent, but in other cases damaged the top of the piston and as Bedford weren’t at that time using sleaves, just bored blocks, damaging the bore.

It caused us serious problems on all fronts that we had serious work flow problems, workshop problems which also added up to possible cash flow problems.

As I have said in a few cases we were lucky in just fitting a new valve and in others valve and piston, but sometimes the bore was damaged causing us to have to ‘clean out the bore’ or in quite a few other cases fit a new short motor.

We wondered what had caused it and one trail of thought was now as they were no longer having to change down to go round Scotch Corner roundabout they were keeping the vehicles going in 5th gear and the Bedfords weren’t getting that extra cooling the fan would give them when they changed down. We told all drivers to make sure they changed down into 4th as they went up the gradual gradient of the new carriageway. The old SBs with the 330 engine weren’t affected but the airflow into them with the radiator on the front was more direct.

We were using Phillips Diesel and Castrol Oil. Castrol was the most expensive oil and to me it always seemed stupid spending extra on their products. However years before my grandfather had had good results from Castrol and we had traditionally used it, and it always prompted arguments when I said we should use cheaper engine oil.

We approached Phillips and Castrol to see if either could test their products to see if they could assist us with answers. Phillips took away for testing a bent valve and a new valve and a damaged piston. Castrol’s reply was simply ‘There is nothing wrong with our oil. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time and in our view Castrol was no exception so with their direct approach gave me and my father reason to discontinue using their oil, overruling any arguments from my grandfather.

Phillips on the other hand never came back with the results from their tests, never bringing back the piston and valves. We saw silence as a sign of guilt and changed the diesel suppliers as well, as an explanation had been given to us by Bedford that if the diesel we used had excess sulphur it could cause a build up of carbon at the top of the valve and that could be causing our problems.

It also changed our confidence in Bedfords, with us having vans built on the more expensive Seddon Pennine coach chassis, using AEC and Leyland on tractor units.

We never had a recurrence of the problems and eventually found out that Bedfords weren’t that bad for our usage after all. With the exception that we always got poor results from TK and TM tractor units. Our problem was that we never carried heavy loads and it seemed such a waste buying 32 ton tractor units, but had we bought ERF or Atkinson with Gardner engines we would have been a lot more profitable with our artics enjoying much more reliability and better fuel consumption, which we discovered when we started running ERFs with Gardner engines.

During the sixties and seventies we had a safari 18ft caravan , which was eventually replaced with another 18ft Safari which at the beginning of March every year we took to Blackpool and brought back at the end of November. My dad refused to buy a static because he felt it should be brought home and stored inside our warehouse over the winter. My grandfather had wanted to buy a bungalow at Poulton Le Fylde, near to the caravan park we used, but quite honestly it was a relief to get away from the phone. Most weekends on a Saturday afternoon or night whenever we got finished we migrated to Blackpool, We even had some friends and other haulers come to visit. I remember one occasion when Tom Liddle called in his chauffer driven car, saying he thought we were nuts.

One Sunday I cannot remember which year my dad and I had taken the caravan to Blackpool with the Landrover and were on our way back. We had just joined the M6 when we noticed one of our vans going the opposite way.
It was being driven by one of our drivers called Charlie Brown.

Charley Brown was due to leave Spennymoor on Sunday afternoon and travel to Glasgow. He had a multidrop load which would enable him to do his deliveries on the Monday and give him sufficient hours to return to Spennymoor Monday night. We both knew that he had a fourteen year old daughter who was a good ice skater entering competitions. Dad said we’ll pull in and wait for him to come back.

I don’t know the name of the service station on the M1 but it is the one between Lancaster and about half way to Tebay. The one on the other carriageway has a small lake. We waited and waited. After telling the manager what we were up to we parked at the exit road so we could see if he was coming and make a quick getaway. ‘How are you going to stop him?’ I asked dad, knowing the Landrover hadn’t a hope in hell of keeping up with a Bedford and worse still passing him and pulling him in. ‘I will ram him if necessary came the reply’.

After a few hours wait luck was on our side as we saw the Bedford pulling into the service area where we were parked. Charlie had decided to take a break. Dad, telling me to park the Landrover in the parking area, ran over to where Charlie was getting out of the cab. By the time I got there I was told to drive follow dad in the Bedford back to Spennymoor. Charlie was sacked and left on the M6. I never found out how he got home.

About a month later Charlie came and apologised and dad gave re employed him. Charlie was a really good worker who did a lot of removals which were really hard work

A few years later we had the need to take a loaded trailer on the night down to Doncaster and change with a driver who was out of time and bring his empty trailer back. We had no class one drivers available and only tractor available was an old D series Ford which was not taxed. Charlie Brown was there and we knew he had a class one licence. We asked him. ‘I know I have a licence but I have never driven one and wouldn’t dare try’ came his reply.

I had a class three licence which also served as provisional for class one. So off we went on trade plates and HGV L badge, with Charlie as my instructor.

I don’t know whether or not charlie is still with us. if you are charlie and read or hear about this please get in touch, but if you are no longer in this world please don’t bother.

Keep the stories coming Carl, they are just what this thread is supposed to be about namely old memories that would otherwise be lost. It is very brave of you to mention your illness to all on this thread and its great that your memories can be recorded for new generations who enter our industry. Your family must be very proud of you . regards kevmac47

kevmac47:
Keep the stories coming Carl, they are just what this thread is supposed to be about namely old memories that would otherwise be lost. It is very brave of you to mention your illness to all on this thread and its great that your memories can be recorded for new generations who enter our industry. Your family must be very proud of you . regards kevmac47

Yes I agree with you kevmac47, this thread is supberb.

kevmac47:
Keep the stories coming Carl, they are just what this thread is supposed to be about namely old memories that would otherwise be lost. It is very brave of you to mention your illness to all on this thread and its great that your memories can be recorded for new generations who enter our industry. Your family must be very proud of you . regards kevmac47

Thank you very much for your comments. One thing seems to lead me on and remind me of another, and the strange thing is how I can remember the past better than I can remember the present. I suppose grew up at a time when people could remember the pironeering days of road haulage, and in my time we were fortunate in seeing some good old British made commercial vehicles. They have gone for good and from our experiences its easier to understand what went wrong with some British manufacturers. But in those days things tended to be hand made. Thank you very much for your comment Carl

EDDIE STOBART FAN:

kevmac47:
Keep the stories coming Carl, they are just what this thread is supposed to be about namely old memories that would otherwise be lost. It is very brave of you to mention your illness to all on this thread and its great that your memories can be recorded for new generations who enter our industry. Your family must be very proud of you . regards kevmac47

Yes I agree with you kevmac47, this thread is supberb.

Thank you for your encouragement. I would like to apologise that I might have been a little harsh with my comments on Eddie Stobart. My son who was two when we finnished has never had any connection with Road Haulage, but I think it runs in the blood, has shown me a photo pf a Srobart vehicle and pointed out to me how beautifully it is painted. My trouble is I’m stuck in a time wharp rom transportin the twentieth century when Stobart and the likes are for the twenty first. However it is so reassuring that someone like you can be a fan of Eddie Stobart and enjoy looking at commercial vehicles Carl

Ray Hornby joined us in the early sixties and was one of the many who stayed with us for the full course till we finished in 1986.

Like many before him Ray had been a bus driver, with a PSV licence, but had had over 10 years experience of driving buses and HGVs but when the HGV licence he didn’t qualify without a test because during the qualifying period he had been driving buses. He was a very good and experienced driver so we simply sent him along with the van he was driving for his HGV test and he failed. That sent shock waves through to several more who needed to take their tests, so we sent Ray on a weeks driving course with Dennis Gooder from Darlington Driver training and he passed.

I wonder if many who read this can remember the accidents in fog on the motorways (Multiple pileups) that used to occur. Ray was driving along the M1 when he stopped before he collided into a row of about 60 vehicles. No one behind him stopped and about 140 vehicles were involved, with many casualties. No damage was done to the front of our vehicle, but the back was obviously badly damaged.

The BBC took an interest and several times Ray was collected from his home in Oakenshaw near Brancepeth and driven to the television studio to take place in discussion programs and also be questioned by doctors as to why he was different from other drivers.

The secret was Ray was a good driver.

Ray’s son Keith also worked for us for a while as a porter and small van driver.

After we closed I was informed that Ray had died through illness at a relatively young age

During my life I have come across two men who I would describe as excellent salesmen. The first was Tony Walker from Thornaby on Tees. I think he had inherited Walker Trailer, and also dabbled in Commercial Vehicle Sales. Not in a small way, but Tony would buy fleets of vehicles and then sell them on.

Tony’s philosophy was everything he had was for sale as if he received the price he was looking for he could always replace and pocket the profit. He had his own helicopter (for sale) a new Rolls Royce (For sale) and a Mercedes Benz SEL with a 6.4 litre engine (For sale). Delivery delays in those days for both these cars were long and both were selling at a premium. Tony always had new replacements on order.

I remember we bought three or four vans from him which had been operated by G D Craig the Darlington Removal Contractors originally from Harris Street and then the new depot next to Darlington Test Station and Pickfords. Tony had purchased all of Craig’s fleet when they stopped trading. My dad had asked him whether he preferred the Rolls Royce or the Mercedes. His choice had been the Mercedes Benz and went on to say that it took less than two hours to get to London as he never dropped below 130 MPH and even if the police spotted him from a motorway bridge by the time they radioed ahead to the next patrol on the next bridge, he was gone.

One day he rang me and said if I put a chalk marked cross on the ground where he needed to land he would fly over to Spennymoor and take me to see some vehicles he wanted to show me. I declined his offer and remembering how he described his driving readily agreed to drive myself over to see him.

The next was ■■■■ Barrett-Atkin. ■■■■’s father had been sales manager with Turveys Sunderland who had sold cars and commercials from the early nineteen hundreds. ■■■■ served his time as a mechanic and went on to be Commercial Sales Manager when they were Morris Main Dealers. He stayed with the new group that was formed Byers, Dunn, Turveys and after their demise went to Hargreaves Stockton who took over the franchise. I remember long before mobile phones way back in the early sixties ■■■■ had a radio system that kept him in touch and virtually ran an office within his car.

He was a hands on salesman who was responsible for selling us all Morris BMC and finally BMC derived Leylands that we had run after the war. In so much I should have disliked him, but he was the most conscientious of people sticking up for Leyland and its predecessor with total loyalty.

I remember my dad telling me of being told by a friend that after picking up a new vehicle from Bathgate which encounter problems, ■■■■ who had accompanied him got out took off his jacket and immediately repaired the fault, saying he could easily get a new suit but he did not want a dissatisfied customer. We bought a Mastiff tractor unit and it was held up from production because Bathgate were waiting delivery of fuel tanks, ■■■■ rang them up and said he could get a tank that day and come up and fit it if that was the case. Somehow that did the trick and the tractor unit was ready for collection the next morning.

Whilst at Turveys Barrett-Atkin had established a ready trade throughout the uk for milk floats on the J2 chassis. He carried a stock of these and insisted that he delivered each himself to make sure no matter where in the country they were based the customer got personal service.

We always said such a pity he hadn’t gone for a Bedford franchise, where he really could have made a bettrr mark with better products.

I don’t know who recommended him to call us, but in the early seventies my dad received a call from the Managing Director, I forget his name, of Mann Egerton from Norwich. Amongst their agencies they had Leyland and they had been asked by Judge (The pan making firm from the Midlands) to supply them with a new fleet of Leylands, however they had about 16 vans they wanted to part exchange. Mann Egerton did not particularly want to get involved with them so he asked my dad if we would be interested in buying them, directly from Judge, as we should be able to negotiate a reasonable price. We got a list and most were fairly newish BMC Lairds, two Bedford with Boalloy pantechnicon bodies (A cheap and nasty copy of Marsden which I will tell about at a later date) and one or two others.

Arrangements were made for dad to go to see vehicles at Judge’s factory and we worked out a price we were prepared to offer, The Lairds were ideally suitable for Courtaulds work as the factory was at this time rapidly expanding and the two Bedfords were relatively new. Our price was accepted and we soon had to arrange to collect them. At that time as we hadn’t experienced ‘THE WONDERFUL SERVICE THE LAIRDS COULD OFFER’ mostly with practice at how to tow a vehicle, and a lot of work for our maintenance department, the deal seemed very good, with us getting two Bedfords for less than the price we could have bought them new and all the others for nothing. We sold off about half of them and the remainder joined our fleet.

Mann Egerton then went on to supply us with two Ford Cars at a very good discount. Then one day we received a call that they would like to bring us a new Pantechnicon they had built on A Ford Passenger chassis. The van came and it wasn’t bad with a glass fibre front and cab and ridged alloy body (Something we would never have specified). The Ford was also turbocharged, and when it arrived on the Friday afternoon the sales rep asked if he could leave it with us so he could catch the train back home for the weekend.

The following week we received a phone call asking .us how much we would be prepared to pay for the van, as it would save them coming to collect it The van was unregistered with basically delivery mileage and full manufacturers warranty, but it was not quite large enough for our general use but would be very handy for long distance removals. We made a daft offer which was accepted. I suspect they had built it for someone to order who probably couldn’t raise the finance to pay for it, and it was an embarrassment to Mann Edgerton, who didn’t want it in their stock.

I can never recall driving that Ford but with being turbocharged it was very fast and I did hear a rumour that one of our drivers was pulled up doing 90 MPH.

The next dealings were when we required three tractor units which by choice we would have chosen AEC Mercury, but were persuaded to buy Leyland Lynx.

I went down to Norwich on three occasions to collect them. First by train, which took about 6 hours with no refreshments or restaurant car. I arrived about 4-30 in the evening and had to stay overnight to collect the tractor unit. Next I chose flying on what was basically a bus stop flight which again by the time I got into Norwich was too late. The final time was the best I got a lift with one of our vans, collected the tractor and was back that night.

I don’t know what the road to Norwich is like today is like, but in those days it was pitiful going through country roads after we left the A1. We used to take many loads to Eastern Electricity Board at Norwich and many of our drivers could just manage the return trip within their hours, in fact in one week one driver did 5 loads in the week. How? I can never imagine. It certainly wasn’t with a BMC derived Leyland vehicle or a Lynx as they would not have lasted that mileage without breaking down.

When I got in my car this morning, as usual on Radio 2 is Sounds of the Sixties, and it took my mind back to a day in Late 68 or early 69 when we received a phone call that Henry Barras one of our drivers who lived in Spennymoor had fallen in Birmingham and broke his leg. He was driving one of the diesel Bedford SB’s and it was parked in Aston Road Car Park in Birmingham.

As there was noone else available and as I was just over 21 I wasThe obvious choice to get it, and bring Henry back at the same time, especially as I remembered Anne Aston of the golden Shot had been named after Aston Road and the Television Studios couldn;t be far from the car park and I might meet her (I Thought)

So off i went by train to New Street station, and asked a taxi to take me to Aston Road Car Park, when he refused and said it was too near and it was easy to walk to. Eventually I arrived at the ar park which was full of cars etc as it was only used for HGVs on a night. Henry was there and off we set to return to Spennymoor. Sadly no Anne Aston sighted but it gave me my first experience of driving a HGV on a longish trip.

Here’s a reminder of what you missed Carl, Anne with Charlie Williams
anne aston.jpg

night shift bri:
Here’s a reminder of what you missed Carl, Anne with Charlie Williams0

Thanks nightshift, Its surprising that brings back memories.

The bad additions she did was all an act, but had she met me and we had got married she would have been an invaluable help in adding uo our VAT for the VAT returns

This is an interesting thread, keep it up.

Someone mentioned Jones Soft Drinks on here, weren’t they also associated with another soft drinks company called Grays? H & ME Fearon’s depot at Mealsgate was their ■■■■■■■■ depot. about 3-4 lorries were based there in the 70’s.

Hi
As I have been in removals for over 40 years i have found this thread very interesting,
I seem to remember picking up a porter to help unload a couple of times in the early eighties
I hope you find the photos interesting, the colour one i think was when the fleet was sold off
It would be interesting to know why/how this came about

georgeking:
This is an interesting thread, keep it up.

Someone mentioned Jones Soft Drinks on here, weren’t they also associated with another soft drinks company called Grays? H & ME Fearon’s depot at Mealsgate was their ■■■■■■■■ depot. about 3-4 lorries were based there in the 70’s.

Yes it was Grays who did direct deliveries round the homes. I think as more women went out to work this wasn’t as successful and they bought out Jones who had been at Bishop Auckland. Jones did wholesale sales through shops. I believe Grays had the biggest bottle washing machine in Europe. They used us to dodeliveries on 40ft flat trailers to Amos Hintons (a largish supermarket chain), and it is quite possible we also did loads over to ■■■■■■■■ To our misfortune we used to rope and sheet the trailers until we lost a load over in teeside, after that time we had to use nets.

Grays were negotiating with a soft drinks somewhere near Huddesfield, who worked from very old premises. They would have require a 40ft load a day but were ancious that we would no be able to get foft trailer into their premises. I suspect it was William Hagues family (The Foreign Secretary). I went down to meet them and look at the premises. I order to assre them I sent one of our artics round to reverse in.However it never came off as they musn’t have been able to agree terms.
Thank you for replying Carl

billybob:
Hi
As I have been in removals for over 40 years i have found this thread very interesting,
I seem to remember picking up a porter to help unload a couple of times in the early eighties
I hope you find the photos interesting, the colour one i think was when the fleet was sold off
It would be interesting to know why/how this came about

I cannot thank you enough for sending me those photographs.I will look at them closely tomorrow and tell you more about the vehicles Meanwhile who did you work for and have you any photos of their vehicles? As I have said before there were many factors that led to our demise and when I get my thoughts together I will write on this matter.
Best wishes Carl

Love the old stories Carl. I worked with Kenny Dagga at John Dee’s when I first started driving on a 7.5t. The black fella you mentioned, would that be Tony from Bishop? He worked with my Dad at Terry Griegs, Tony did nightshift on the coke from Hartlepool to Redcar. Once He got stopped as the police couldnt see Him driving, thought it was a runaway wagon :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: . Then I worked with Tony at Abrahams when I worked in the garage on my YTS. All you could see was His teeth when He was driving his Cargo :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: . Sound bloke…

andrewv8:
Love the old stories Carl. I worked with Kenny Dagga at John Dee’s when I first started driving on a 7.5t. The black fella you mentioned, would that be Tony from Bishop? He worked with my Dad at Terry Griegs, Tony did nightshift on the coke from Hartlepool to Redcar. Once He got stopped as the police couldnt see Him driving, thought it was a runaway wagon :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: . Then I worked with Tony at Abrahams when I worked in the garage on my YTS. All you could see was His teeth when He was driving his Cargo :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: . Sound bloke…

Ken Dagga worked for us a lot of years. Plese correct me of I’m wrong, but I thik he went on to sell cash registers to shops and subsequently passed away.

I cannot remember the black guys name, but its soinds like i would be him. One thing I would say is all the drivers took to him without any prejudice but in this sick world today I suspect we would have been prosecuted for allowing racial prejudice.

Thanks for your reply and please tell me if you know what happened to Ken Dagga, Carl

Billybob vey kindly sent me photos of three vans and a group line up of a few of the rigid vans, I said I would go through these photos 1 by 1 The first top one left GWU552N was a Bedford KF 11.15ton GVW Bedford Marsden with 466 cu in engine and fibreglass body which I went down to Birmingham, bought and drove back. It is being driven in the photograph by Geoff Pye who lived in Birtley.In 1967 we bought out Fred Johnson and Son Removal contractors from Durham. We got three vans with 2 A Licences and 1 B Licence, but with the deal we took on their staff. Amongst these was Geoff Pye and as he lived in Birtley and travelled each day by bus we hought he would not stay. He remained with us 19 years.

Geoff did almost 100 per cent long distance removals, which he prefered and was excellent at doing. Most drivers did not like removals as it was very hard work.(People did not have Ikea furniture in those days and in most houses ere at least four wardrobes). Also they complained that our pay structure made it less lucrative in the pay packet. However if, like Geoff you were good at your job you could find you were given hugh tips. In the photo he is accompanied by a porter, who I cannot rcognise.I personally think photos like this that are taken when the vehicle is in use and on the move are much more interesting than photos that are staged by the photographer for publicity shots etc. Once again Thank you so much Billybob for sending these photos