Hi Carl,
Would you remember a company called I think ?..Harold Lomas I think they were from Manchester they ran the same model Marsdens as the one here of yours…they had religious slogans painted on all the lutons of there vehicles ?
Regards Mark
Over the years Bedfords & Chev before them gave us wonderful service and we only had three that were failure.
Today I’m telling the story of the first of these 6188HN a Bedford 4 Tonner (KD) TK with 4 cylinder diesel engine.
Coulson’s Engineering or perhaps better known as Coulson’s forge were based adjacent to the railway line at Merrington Lane Spennymoor next to the railway crossing. I believe one of the main things they produced were railway lines. They had a fair sized workforce but I suppose by 1964 were loosing work to much larger heavy engineering forges. As I said as they were based next to the railway line most of their production was delivered by rail as it had been over very many years they had been based in Spennymoor.
I don’t know how as I was just 16 but dad found out that they were closing down and as they had a 1962 (Then less than 2 years old) Bedford 4 ton TK reg no 6188HN with a dropside body which only had about 7,000 miles on the clock from new and also an 1961 Ford 15cwt van which is shown after being painted in our livery 4460PT which again was very low mileage. With still a few months to go before they closed down, Dad approached them and agreed to buy these two vehicles when they were available.
The Ford van I well remember as I drove this regulary as soon as I passed my driving test and spent many enjoyable days during my school holidays Christmas, Easter & Summer etc.
The TK was another story and we took off the drop sided body which was sold within days as it was alloy and as good as new, and I went with Norman Snowball who drove as I had not yet passed my driving test, to Marsden Coachbuilders Ltd Warrington to have a Luton Body fitted. Norman by then was in his 40s had joined my Grandfather directly from school aged 14 and not only was an excellent driver but also possibly the best van packer we ever had. He also had the pleasure of teaching me when I was about 14 and you could guarantee if he said a van was full, it would be difficult to fit a cigarette packet in the back.
We had a good journey over to Warrington and caught the train home after delivering the TK. As I said Norman was a good driver and never would have flogged the 4 cylinder engine, but I was witness he did not and we had no problems on our journey.
It was about a week later that my dad got a phone call from Ken Marsden that the TK had seized up as their driver was taking it near Liverpool to get a Chassis Extension, to make to long enough to accommodate a 1600 cu ft Luton Body. Their first suggestion was that perhaps it had had problems on its journey to Warrington, but Norman had confirmed verified by me that it was in perfect condition when we left it.
It was agreed that my dad would travel over to a Bedford dealership based on the East Lancs Road on the Sunday to see the chassis cab and discuss a repair plan and responsibility etc. I went with dad and it turned out that Marsden had insurance to cover eventualities like that and they would replace the engine completely with a new engine directly from the factory but wanted a contribution from us to cover betterment. The argument was it was a used engine and as the replacement was new we were benefiting. I think we agreed to pay about 25%. The Bedford had a brand new factory engine fitted, continued & got the chassis extended & went back to Warrington where it went into line as they worked there way through all the chassis waiting for bodywork and it was 1965 before it was collected ,and came back to us for painting & starting for work. It replaced a 1956 Ford 4D 1500 cu ft van we had endured from new.
That’s when the trouble started as it never returned without fracturing injector pipes. The driver who was driving it was infact issued with a full set & given a spanner & taught how to change them. After about 6 months the engine once again blew up and had to be replaced, and still every journey problems.
At the time in 1965-66 we were very busy and used most removal contractors with large vans nearby to deliver loads for us one of these was G.J Johnson & Son Durham City run by Fred Johnson and his mother (following the death of his father who started the business) Fred had 3 vans and one of these was a Ford 4D which he wanted to replace and he agreed to buy the TK off us (At a great loss to us). He was so happy with this almost new TK with a beautiful body by Marsdens, saying that although he had heard of our problems it would be a family member (His cousin) who would drive it and knew he would treat the van as though he was worshiping it
Within about a year Fred contacted us and asked did we want to buy the business. It was sad because his mother virtually ran it doing all office work including booking the removals but Fred had turned to the bottle and if not an alcoholic was heading that way.
I remember meeting Fred at ‘The ■■■■ of the North Hotel’ along with my dad were we discussed things. Fred ran a 1960 Morris 7 Ton Luton Van (Sorry I cannot remember the model) but the one that was made until late 60s. I was told it had a diesel engine by Sauber (Not sure if I got the spelling right. The TK both on ‘A Licence’ and a Morris J2 van on B Licence. plus 5 employees (Not including Fred or his mother) One of these was Eddie Ramsey who actually had built the van body on the Morris 7 tonner (Which was very large and too high to go into our Marmaduke Street Garage so well over 13 ft) Eddie stayed with us until sadly he collapsed & died in our warehouse on Green Lane Ind Est Spennymoor in about 1980 (aged 65) and Geoff Pye fro Birtley who stayed with us 19 years.
The TK came back and it was repainted from Johnson’s livery back into ours and we then heard all the problems they had with it. Life repeated itself with us as it continued to be unreliable and went through another short motor until we decided to buy a new Bedford KE with a 330 diesel engine and take the body off and put it on the new chassis. We located a new Bedford KE at Shaw & Kilburn (The only one in stock) got a chassis extension to the same as 6188HN and FPT780G went on the road & was still running when we closed in 1986.
The Morris we got with Johnsons business was replaced by the next Bedford SB that came from Marsdens EUP480G and Ford 15 cwt van 4460PT we were running was put onto the ‘B Licence’ and another large van put onto our A licence to replace it
We took over all of Johnsons work including three organ builders including Harrison & Harrison and amongst work for them transported to and from London all the organ pipes & consul of the organ originally made by them from Queen Victoria’s time in The Royal Albert Hall. We also of course got what was the cream on the cake, three extra large vans onto our ‘A licence’ and the Ford 15 cwt used on the B licence which was adequate for its use.
Carl Williams:
Over the years Bedfords & Chev before them gave us wonderful service and we only had three that were failure.Today I’m telling the story of the first of these 6188HN a Bedford 4 Tonner (KD) TK with 4 cylinder diesel engine.
Coulson’s Engineering or perhaps better known as Coulson’s forge were based adjacent to the railway line at Merrington Lane Spennymoor next to the railway crossing. I believe one of the main things they produced were railway lines. They had a fair sized workforce but I suppose by 1964 were loosing work to much larger heavy engineering forges. As I said as they were based next to the railway line most of their production was delivered by rail as it had been over very many years they had been based in Spennymoor.
I don’t know how as I was just 16 but dad found out that they were closing down and as they had a 1962 (Then less than 2 years old) Bedford 4 ton TK reg no 6188HN with a dropside body which only had about 7,000 miles on the clock from new and also an 1961 Ford 15cwt van which is shown after being painted in our livery 4460PT which again was very low mileage. With still a few months to go before they closed down, Dad approached them and agreed to buy these two vehicles when they were available.
The Ford van I well remember as I drove this regulary as soon as I passed my driving test and spent many enjoyable days during my school holidays Christmas, Easter & Summer etc.
The TK was another story and we took off the drop sided body which was sold within days as it was alloy and as good as new, and I went with Norman Snowball who drove as I had not yet passed my driving test, to Marsden Coachbuilders Ltd Warrington to have a Luton Body fitted. Norman by then was in his 40s had joined my Grandfather directly from school aged 14 and not only was an excellent driver but also possibly the best van packer we ever had. He also had the pleasure of teaching me when I was about 14 and you could guarantee if he said a van was full, it would be difficult to fit a cigarette packet in the back.
We had a good journey over to Warrington and caught the train home after delivering the TK. As I said Norman was a good driver and never would have flogged the 4 cylinder engine, but I was witness he did not and we had no problems on our journey.
It was about a week later that my dad got a phone call from Ken Marsden that the TK had seized up as their driver was taking it near Liverpool to get a Chassis Extension, to make to long enough to accommodate a 1600 cu ft Luton Body. Their first suggestion was that perhaps it had had problems on its journey to Warrington, but Norman had confirmed verified by me that it was in perfect condition when we left it.
It was agreed that my dad would travel over to a Bedford dealership based on the East Lancs Road on the Sunday to see the chassis cab and discuss a repair plan and responsibility etc. I went with dad and it turned out that Marsden had insurance to cover eventualities like that and they would replace the engine completely with a new engine directly from the factory but wanted a contribution from us to cover betterment. The argument was it was a used engine and as the replacement was new we were benefiting. I think we agreed to pay about 25%. The Bedford had a brand new factory engine fitted, continued & got the chassis extended & went back to Warrington where it went into line as they worked there way through all the chassis waiting for bodywork and it was 1965 before it was collected ,and came back to us for painting & starting for work. It replaced a 1956 Ford 4D 1500 cu ft van we had endured from new.
That’s when the trouble started as it never returned without fracturing injector pipes. The driver who was driving it was infact issued with a full set & given a spanner & taught how to change them. After about 6 months the engine once again blew up and had to be replaced, and still every journey problems.
At the time in 1965-66 we were very busy and used most removal contractors with large vans nearby to deliver loads for us one of these was G.J Johnson & Son Durham City run by Fred Johnson and his mother (following the death of his father who started the business) Fred had 3 vans and one of these was a Ford 4D which he wanted to replace and he agreed to buy the TK off us (At a great loss to us). He was so happy with this almost new TK with a beautiful body by Marsdens, saying that although he had heard of our problems it would be a family member (His cousin) who would drive it and knew he would treat the van as though he was worshiping it
Within about a year Fred contacted us and asked did we want to buy the business. It was sad because his mother virtually ran it doing all office work including booking the removals but Fred had turned to the bottle and if not an alcoholic was heading that way.
I remember meeting Fred at ‘The ■■■■ of the North Hotel’ along with my dad were we discussed things. Fred ran a 1960 Morris 7 Ton Luton Van (Sorry I cannot remember the model) but the one that was made until late 60s. I was told it had a diesel engine by Sauber (Not sure if I got the spelling right. The TK both on ‘A Licence’ and a Morris J2 van on B Licence. plus 5 employees (Not including Fred or his mother) One of these was Eddie Ramsey who actually had built the van body on the Morris 7 tonner (Which was very large and too high to go into our Marmaduke Street Garage so well over 13 ft) Eddie stayed with us until sadly he collapsed & died in our warehouse on Green Lane Ind Est Spennymoor in about 1980 (aged 65) and Geoff Pye fro Birtley who stayed with us 19 years.
The TK came back and it was repainted from Johnson’s livery back into ours and we then heard all the problems they had with it. Life repeated itself with us as it continued to be unreliable and went through another short motor until we decided to buy a new Bedford KE with a 330 diesel engine and take the body off and put it on the new chassis. We located a new Bedford KE at Shaw & Kilburn (The only one in stock) got a chassis extension to the same as 6188HN and FPT780G went on the road & was still running when we closed in 1986.
The Morris we got with Johnsons business was replaced by the next Bedford SB that came from Marsdens EUP480G and Ford 15 cwt van 4460PT we were running was put onto the ‘B Licence’ and another large van put onto our A licence to replace it
We took over all of Johnsons work including three organ builders including Harrison & Harrison and amongst work for them transported to and from London all the organ pipes & consul of the organ originally made by them from Queen Victoria’s time in The Royal Albert Hall. We also of course got what was the cream on the cake, three extra large vans onto our ‘A licence’ and the Ford 15 cwt used on the B licence which was adequate for its use.
As I was saying that when we needed a new Bedford KE chassis cab, the only one we could find for immediate delivery was as Shaw & Kilburn in London, and it was delivered to us unregistered and got the Durham Reg FPT780G
The strangest thing about FPT780G was our dealing with Shaw & Kilburn and I was just telling Paul, my son which illustrates how the world has changed. Paul has a new Renault 8 wheeler standing ready for delivery because the purchaser insisted in paying by cheque instead of doing a bank transfer. It can’t be delivered for 5 working days till the banks decide to clear the cheque, We never before had any dealings with Shaw & Kilburn and when their driver delivered the chassis cab to Marmaduke Street (Where we were in 1969) dad asked had he the invoice so we could give him the cheque. Don’t worry, he said they’ll be sending it in the post. When it came of course we paid by return but they had opened an account with us and it was net 28 days
Apart from the 220 cu in 4 cylinder,the only other Bedfords we had real problems with were these two.
Both identical separated only by about 6 months in age and on paper should have been really good vans.
Bedford KG 380 cu in engines Eaton 2 speed axle with nice largish bodies by Northern Assemblies Blackhill, Consett.
However as history will tell the 380 engine was not a success & Bedford was left lacking until they introduced the 466 cu in to be eventually be replaced by 500 cu in.
As I have explained before I am not a mechanic, & have no mechanical knowledge apart from knowing how long each job should take & the cost (1967-1986), so I cannot tell all the problems we suffered but it was all engine problems.
I think as well as virtually continual repairs they each had 2 new short motors and it was after this that Dad told me he had decided that next time either were problematic he was going to take out the 380 engine & put in 330cu. In. When I asked would they run alright with 330 engines he said he couldn’t see why not as all other Bedfords we had running at that time (Apart from a few new 466 were 330 engines & they managed OK.
So I believe it was the elder of the two had an engine transplant & went back onto the road with a 330 engine. It wouldn’t go struggling to maintain 30 mph. Obviously the gearbox diff etc had been married up to suit the 380 engine. So reluctantly off it went to auction.
Although I sold all our old vehicles & we had a ready customer base waiting to buy we would only sent genuine vehicles to our ‘customers’ but at auction?? I suppose if anyone bought it for local removals and were not in a hurry or travelling mostly in a built up area it might have served them well, but we never heard who bought it or how it went on.
The next effort was to put a 466 engine in the other one. A completely new engine would have been too expensive so we had to bide our time till we could locate a second hand one as they were new at the time & not too many running about. Again I cannot remember the problems with the 466 but an engine transplant was not just as simple as switching engines. So it went off to auction as well
I didn’t have a lot to do with the 466 engine, apart from fitting a crank in one that tipped backwards into a hopper at the quarry and was starved of oil, but the Bedford dealership I had worked for previously had one KM that had got through ten (yes,TEN!) engines in just three years but it may have had the older 380 engine of course? I take it that you didn’t have any TK’s fitted with the Leyland engine then, that seemed popular with tipper operators?
Pete.
windrush:
I didn’t have a lot to do with the 466 engine, apart from fitting a crank in one that tipped backwards into a hopper at the quarry and was starved of oil, but the Bedford dealership I had worked for previously had one KM that had got through ten (yes,TEN!) engines in just three years but it may have had the older 380 engine of course? I take it that you didn’t have any TK’s fitted with the Leyland engine then, that seemed popular with tipper operators?Pete.
Hi Pete,I allways prefered the Leyland engine as to the Bedford 300/330s,I drove a Bedford artic with the Scammell coupling in the 19 sixties it was a load of crap, The only good thing about was it had a good heater which was a bonus in those days, I used to load it with 12 ton & go to Manchester at night, Which was the norm in those days, The brakes were total rubbish, & the transmission handbrake was a joke, But having said all this the bloke I worked for paid good money so one just put up with it, 
, A pal of mine had a S Type 4 wheeler Bedford flat with the Leyland engine in & it was trouble free & as you know designed as a 7 tonner it loved having 10 on its back plus it had very good Lockheed Brakes, Regards Larry.
Carl.
Watched this video on youtube about FB Atkins and at about 7.40 minutes there is one of your vehicles parked next to the café at Findern.
youtube.com/watch?v=finUm2S08Ew
jshepguis:
Carl.
Watched this video on youtube about FB Atkins and at about 7.40 minutes there is one of your vehicles parked next to the café at Findern.
youtube.com/watch?v=finUm2S08Ew
Thanks it must have been taken about 1973-74 as the Mercedes is my father’s Mercedes 250 which was new 1973 and the van was 1372UP a Bedford Marsden SB new 1962 which at the time of the photo had been repainted in our new front and back design we intrduced in 1965.
I seem to remember dad had been travelling South and arranged to take a porter down to meet one of our vans that was in that area to help the driver load a removal destined for the North East. He must have been treating the driver & porter to dinner at Atkin’s cafe
It just goes to show you never know when you are being photographed, and if you are somewhere where you shouldn’t be, how easy you could be caught out.
Carl Williams:
[snip]It just goes to show you never know when you are being photographed, and if you are somewhere where you shouldn’t be, how easy you could be caught out.
Haha Carl, that happened to me back in the eighties when we took our lorries home! Fancied an early finish so headed for home mid afternoon instead of going back to the quarry for a local load, next day dispatcher asked why I hadn’t returned and I told him I a had been held up with my last load. “That’s strange, your truck was on BBC news, they were filming on the A6 at 2.30 and you drove past” so that kyboshed my story good and proper! 
Pete.
Hi Carl,
I have just found this photo I took of one of your vans at the Commercial Vehicle Show, NEC Birmingham, its not the best quality picture but it did look well on the stand.
Mark
LR Man:
Hi Carl,I have just found this photo I took of one of your vans at the Commercial Vehicle Show, NEC Birmingham, its not the best quality picture but it did look well on the stand.
Mark
Thank you very much for that Mark.
When I went to the show I hadn’t the brains to take a camera.
Never thought I would see that again.
Hope you’re OK Best wishes Carl
Photo of RPT601M Day one before it went on the road
& Some time after we sold it Looking near the end of its road.
Obviously don’t know how long you had this motor for Carl (RPT 601M) but i’m sure it holds some significance/memories? They say that machines have no heart/relevance, i disagree. Because they give us memories/emotions, they become lifelike to us as driver’s/owner’s? Obviously not as significant as our children but we love them all the same (well mostly)
Thanks for sharing all this history with us Carl, very interesting.
paulycats:
Obviously don’t know how long you had this motor for Carl (RPT 601M) but i’m sure it holds some significance/memories? They say that machines have no heart/relevance, i disagree. Because they give us memories/emotions, they become lifelike to us as driver’s/owner’s? Obviously not as significant as our children but we love them all the same (well mostly)
You have that exactly right there Paulycats.
Although RPT601M was a vehicle that on average represented the poor quality of Leyland Products in particular Lynx, Boxer & Laird which sadly we ran quite a few, it still represents part of my life. It was the second van where our Company Coachskill built the body and certainly at the time of building we had such high hopes of its performance. But like you said I know they certainly were not human, strangely I developed feeling about them. Like you say about children at times you might not agree or like what they do, you still love them. So although that Boxer caused grief by continually breaking down & costing time & money on repair, I was delighted when a photo when it was new turned up, & sad seeing it batted and neglected waiting to be scrapped.
I’m sure you will understand, whereas many will think I am mad.
Carl Williams:
paulycats:
Obviously don’t know how long you had this motor for Carl (RPT 601M) but i’m sure it holds some significance/memories? They say that machines have no heart/relevance, i disagree. Because they give us memories/emotions, they become lifelike to us as driver’s/owner’s? Obviously not as significant as our children but we love them all the same (well mostly)You have that exactly right there Paulycats.
Although RPT601M was a vehicle that on average represented the poor quality of Leyland Products in particular Lynx, Boxer & Laird which sadly we ran quite a few, it still represents part of my life. It was the second van where our Company Coachskill built the body and certainly at the time of building we had such high hopes of its performance. But like you said I know they certainly were not human, strangely I developed feeling about them. Like you say about children at times you might not agree or like what they do, you still love them. So although that Boxer caused grief by continually breaking down & costing time & money on repair, I was delighted when a photo when it was new turned up, & sad seeing it batted and neglected waiting to be scrapped.
I’m sure you will understand, whereas many will think I am mad.
I certainly understand, you are quite mad Carl
I know we all enjoy reading about your experiences, as we do with many other owner’s and driver’s, right across this website, on various subjects within the haulage industry. As it was then and as it is now (we enjoy more, what we can relate to) so obviously us old timer’s choose this particular forum. People, like your good self( and many, many others) have experiences from birth ( i can remember sitting in a lorry at the age of about three) through to their later years and this is invaluable, especially when all of their working lives are within transport.
Me dad’s wagon’s were my passion, my future (i thought) and nothing else mattered (apart from(for me anyway) girls of course )
Hope to hear more from you Carl 
Regards, Paulycats
Today I would like to take you back to about 1985 and take you on a tour of our depot at Green Lane Industrial Estate Spennymoor, with the aid of three photos, the first are two areal photos, which neither sadly show much of the huge parking area where most of our vans would be parked.
Looking at the first photo as you travel through the gates on the left is the Gatehouse with the warehouse behind on the right Directors and visitors carpark in front of the entrance door to our offices. Again to the right below the offices there is a white portacabin giving additional office space and the building further down below the offices is the traffic office, with windows right round like a goldfish bowl and drivers rest room. A Stairway leads down to this from a side door in our offices.
Behind the offices again to the right of the picture is our main workshops a side door from this leads under the offices into an area where the fitters toilet& washroom is located, and a workshop for our Auto-electrician together with heating and oil storage tanks. The Main workshop is 75 ft wide by 45 ft long. The fleet engineer has an office inside and a huge Wood burning stove (that provides the heating which is ducted down through the vehicle parts department and the second workshop). That workshop has four roller shutter doors leading into four service bays two with fully serviced full length pits and two solid floor area (All the buildings were built to give a height clearance of 15ft)
Keeping looking right you come to a ramp area on a concrete washing area for steam cleaning under chassis. Behind is double doors leading into our vehicle parts department which is built to join the first workshop with the second newer one. Hatch counter doors are at either side so mechanics have access from both workshops.
Next we come to our second workshop which is longer with two service bays with two full length (65ft) fully serviced pit which each could accommodate a full tractor unit coupled to 40 ft trailer with room to spare. Further down before you drive into the parking area is on the right The Wilcomatic vehicle wash which travels on a track & can wash a complete tractor unit with 40 ft trailer (including the roof)
Going back up to the Warehouse to the left in the centre of front (looking down our site) you can just make out the toilet block (Which in fact we pinched the design from one on a caravan park) Behind in front of the far end of the warehouse you can just make out a small shed like building where we stored tyres wheels etc and our Tyre fitter was based In the centre where there appears to be a mess is our fuel pump engine oil storage etc where the vehicles could refuel at either side (There was some building work going on there at the time of the photo putting new curbs in) behind near the fence far left side is one of our diesel tanks the other is at the bottom next to the vehicle wash. They were both piped to the fuel pumps.
The final square building on the left hand side as you progress down towards the parking area is our Body shop & Paint shop which could accommodate four vans. At the side of this building (Farthest on the picture is a lean-too garage for our two veteran Bedford vans)
Then its into the parking area, most of which is not shown on either photo & on the right hand side is the car parking area for employees cars.
The second picture gives a better sight of the employees car park and the Wilcomatic Vehicle wash (Which was in action at the time) This was taken before the veteran Vans garage was added to the side of the body shop & was in its original location on the far side of the warehouse. You will notice we left the original hedge which was there when it was originally farm land the maintain a natural divide between the two areas. The total site are was slightly over six acres.
The final photo was one of the warehouse when it was originally under construction and illustrates its size. Again it was built for 15 foot clearance. When we built it we containers for storage were not developed and sadly when we went containerised we found we hadn’t got the height, except in the centre for three high. When Courtaulds closed which was just yards from our building we got a part of their warehouse that easily could accommodate containers four high so we moved the household storage into that building and used our warehouse as a sorting area for our home deliveries for our mail order customers. These included British Mail Order catalogues such as Great Universal & Kays & independents such as Freemans Gratans & Empire Stores and Furniture Manufactures such as Homeworthy and Universal Bedding from Team Valley & Universal Upholstery from Chirton North Shields. Also a large area of the warehouse was converted into more office space for the Home delivery operation.
Couple of photos of our Atkinson with Gardner Engine. Bit dirty, particularly as we had an automatic vehicle wash that would wash from front to back including roof of tractor & trailer complete, but in defence that tractor unit had not been back to Spennymoor for over three weeks, changing trailers at our Sheffield depot. At the time we were taking Beds, 3 piece suites, cabinet furniture and flatpacks which had been sorted at our Spennymoor warehouse into areas to deliver to our various depots, which in turn were delivered with smaller vehicles to mail order customers at their homes. This tractor had been picking up trailers which had been shunted down to Sheffield taking onto our London depot, and returning to Sheffield loaded trailers with flatpack furniture which our tractors ferrying trailers to Sheffield would return to our Spennymoor warehouse, to store and draw orders from as the mail order customers bought.
