tommy t:
All this talk of keeping print outs (records) for an infinite Length of time is bollox 28 days yes acceptable but longer no
He’s not been charged with not keeping it long enough. It’s for failing to hand it in within the time limit it seems, although that would be 42 days and not 28 as stated
The driver is responsible for having 29 days records available for inspection and has to return them to the operator by the 42nd day after the record was created. The operator has to keep those records for a year or two years if he uses the tacho to monitor the WTD.
tommy t:
All this talk of keeping print outs (records) for an infinite Length of time is bollox 28 days yes acceptable but longer no, But you can always get a printout going back further from the truck’s digi tacho if needed, so where’s to problem ?
I imagine the print out was done to write an explanation as to why the driver went over his time, in which case he was required to hand it into the office so they have a record should the DVSA come a knocking and want explanations to infringements.
tommy t:
As for pulling the card and booking off early (before you actually finish ) if the employer can account for any missing K’s then VOSTAPO haven’t got diddly squat As someone has said the card was pulled early in the yard,
Lots of drivers regularly will tip/load off card during their daily rest period, they may not like it, but they do it to keep their jobs, as some companies expect that of their drivers that is the sad reality of how things are, unless you work for the bigger companies where theres more company BS than you can shake a stick at,
The fact that drivers pull their card and continue to work in the yard and companies allow it doesn’t mean it’s legal, it means you’re not recording your hours correctly for both EU drivers hours reg and WTD.
But I think in the OP’s case we either haven’t heard the whole story, I can only assume that they’ve been under observation for sometime and they know have the evidence for a big trial of company and drivers to get max publicity.
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us ■■■■■■■.
LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams ‘angry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.’
+1
+2 to this
Especially in regards his opinion on anyone who works as anything other than a PAYE worker.
I won’t be the one who ends up in court for pulling their card whilst still working. I have no problem with those who do self employment properly - my problem is those doing it for tax evasion whilst simultaneously complaining about big corporations doing exactly what they are - hypocrisy. My problem with self employment is not with the drivers per se but with the agencies abusing it. I support self employment but not at an agency for a quid an hour more than PAYE.
Must be depressing when you look at your life and see you’ve under achieved so much you’re doing a job that can be done by somebody with a 3rd of the IQ as a cabbage.
all this talk of printouts and time limits has set me thinking…
I do not do printouts, i just put my card in when i start and remove it as a LAST job when i exit the vehicle with everything done, the ONLY time i do a printout is if i’ve dropped a 8ollock (like the other week for example when i forgot to remove my card when i went home and it clocked other work all night when i was at home, resting)
now obviously these printouts need to be handed in with my tacho disks (we still have trucks on paper tacho’s) but do i have to hand one in for every day?? even though our cards get downloaded every fortnight or so??
No, you don’t have to do a printout all the time, usually only when something odd has happened that contravenes the rules like you stated. Back on topic, may I suggest looking at pepipoo.com/ ? A lot of things can be found out on the internet these days, though I’m not saying you will get all you want there. Not gonna be cheap, but sounds like a solicitor might be the best option (mitigating circumstances?), looking at that aforementioned ■■■■■■■■ link, but hope your situation is not that bad.
Bungle666:
all this talk of printouts and time limits has set me thinking…
I do not do printouts, i just put my card in when i start and remove it as a LAST job when i exit the vehicle with everything done, the ONLY time i do a printout is if i’ve dropped a 8ollock (like the other week for example when i forgot to remove my card when i went home and it clocked other work all night when i was at home, resting)
now obviously these printouts need to be handed in with my tacho disks (we still have trucks on paper tacho’s) but do i have to hand one in for every day?? even though our cards get downloaded every fortnight or so??
Actually, I was wrong about you. I should had added: ‘who is 14 years old and has discovered he can hurl abuse from behind his computer without fear of any comeback.’
Bungle666:
all this talk of printouts and time limits has set me thinking…
I do not do printouts, i just put my card in when i start and remove it as a LAST job when i exit the vehicle with everything done, the ONLY time i do a printout is if i’ve dropped a 8ollock (like the other week for example when i forgot to remove my card when i went home and it clocked other work all night when i was at home, resting)
now obviously these printouts need to be handed in with my tacho disks (we still have trucks on paper tacho’s) but do i have to hand one in for every day?? even though our cards get downloaded every fortnight or so??
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us ■■■■■■■.
LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams ‘angry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.’
As has been suggested by Silver Surfer the situation is VOSA have investigated and found that running bent is endemic within the firm. The standard procedure is just to prosecute on whatever can be found, regardless of how trivial, on the assumption all drivers are at it.
If a firm has a culture of running bent then you just want out. That’s not to endorse the finger waggers, at the other end of the scale, whose face never fits anywhere, occasional bending of the rules to help out in exceptional circumstances is fine and needed to get on with employers it’s knowing when to draw the line.
Conor:
Must be depressing when you look at your life and see you’ve under achieved so much you’re doing a job that can be done by somebody with a 3rd of the IQ as a cabbage.
Ok, you win the inaugural Bertie Comedy Comeback award. Very chucklesome indeed
I think I am right in my procedure, using disc tacho, take tacho out say 17.30 but have to put other units away if I am the last back so I mark the time on the disc at say 18.00 and the same on my time sheet and have always done this.
When I start work I often have move all the other units out then mine and ■■■■ about a bit and walk around checks then remember my disc is not in, so I just mark the disc with STD Start of Duty time.
All tallies with the start and finish times on my time sheet that I am paid from.
That said an ex driver who left always had an extra 30 mins on the end of his time sheet when I know he was on his way home and could not possibly tally with his digi card extraction so this would affect his WTD and daily rests.
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us ■■■■■■■.
LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams ‘angry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.’
+1
+2 to this
Especially in regards his opinion on anyone who works as anything other than a PAYE worker.
I won’t be the one who ends up in court for pulling their card whilst still working. I have no problem with those who do self employment properly - my problem is those doing it for tax evasion whilst simultaneously complaining about big corporations doing exactly what they are - hypocrisy. My problem with self employment is not with the drivers per se but with the agencies abusing it. I support self employment but not at an agency for a quid an hour more than PAYE.
But given the combined IQ of all three of you is no higher than that of a cabbage it comes as no surprise that you’re too stupid to work this out and need it pointing out to you.
Oh dear, have we struck a nerve somewhere Conor??
I would say the way you have responded above would suggest the only person with the IQ of a cabbage may be a little closer to home than you think, reacting in a way that can only be described as like a petulant child just because some people question or disagree with your opinion. P.s I had the IQ to come to that realisation myself.
On the other hand cabbages may be more intelligent than we think and it could have been a back handed compliment - who knows■■?
muckles:
Must be depressing when you look at your life and see you’ve under achieved so much you’re doing a job that can be done by somebody with a 3rd of the IQ as a cabbage.
Guess I was spot on. “A third of the IQ as a cabbage” is nonsense. Do you actually talk like that in real life? Is this an attempt to come across as intelligent because if it is you’ve failed.
I drive trucks because I choose to, not because I have to. I drive for who I want and when I want because I don’t need to earn the money. What I earn from it pays for my toys. That’s the difference between us.
Drift:
I think I am right in my procedure, using disc tacho, take tacho out say 17.30 but have to put other units away if I am the last back so I mark the time on the disc at say 18.00 and the same on my time sheet and have always done this.
When I start work I often have move all the other units out then mine and ■■■■ about a bit and walk around checks then remember my disc is not in, so I just mark the disc with STD Start of Duty time.
All tallies with the start and finish times on my time sheet that I am paid from.
That said an ex driver who left always had an extra 30 mins on the end of his time sheet when I know he was on his way home and could not possibly tally with his digi card extraction so this would affect his WTD and daily rests.
I hate cabbage …and veg
Time sheet doesn’t necessarily have to match the tacho. In my last night trunking job I was guaranteed a minimum number of hours but was often finished and well on my way home or even back indoors before those guaranteed hours were done. I still had to fill in a time sheet and it would be rare for the tacho and it to actually match. Was never an issue and didn’t affect rest periods or WTD as although I was being paid I wasn’t actually working so it was rest.
Wouldn’t you be better marking it SDT than implying a ■■■■■■■■ Transmitted Disease?
Silver_Surfer:
Seriously thinking of emigrating unless things pick up here as at least they let you get on with driving the things in Canada, NZ & AUS without bending you over for what was it? 2 mins over a 4.5 & whipping the card out a bit early (that’s the one they’re doing you for) on private land. Too ■■■■ though anyway, by far. Must have been a slow day…
Canada has many faults like anywhere else but the absence of the tacho makes a hell of a difference to your stress levels and over all enjoyment of the job. In Canada you can drive for 13 hours a day and if you wished you could do it in one non stop stint, now obviously you’d be mad to do so but it gives you the freedom to do things to your own rhythm and times and there’s a lot to be said for that. Even in the US with the lower daily drive time of 11 hours you don’t have to stop for a break until 8 hours of driving and on duty time are reached so in both countries I always do 5-7 hours driving, have an hour off, more if I feel like it and then complete the remainder of my 11 or 13 hour drive. Myself and tens of thousands of other North American drivers are performing out duties every day perfectly safely, but in a manner that would see us all in court and probably imprisoned in the UK. Now I know I’m not in the UK and if I were I’d have to follow the rules the same as everybody else, but to me personally, its a travesty that an advanced western nation is prosecuting ordinary working men for something so trivial, and something that would be well within the law in other comparable countries such as Canada and anybody who really does think that a driver who exceeds a lowly 4.5hr drive by 2 minutes is a danger is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Drift:
I think I am right in my procedure, using disc tacho, take tacho out say 17.30 but have to put other units away if I am the last back so I mark the time on the disc at say 18.00 and the same on my time sheet and have always done this.
When I start work I often have move all the other units out then mine and ■■■■ about a bit and walk around checks then remember my disc is not in, so I just mark the disc with STD Start of Duty time.
All tallies with the start and finish times on my time sheet that I am paid from.
That said an ex driver who left always had an extra 30 mins on the end of his time sheet when I know he was on his way home and could not possibly tally with his digi card extraction so this would affect his WTD and daily rests.
I hate cabbage …and veg
Time sheet doesn’t necessarily have to match the tacho. In my last night trunking job I was guaranteed a minimum number of hours but was often finished and well on my way home or even back indoors before those guaranteed hours were done. I still had to fill in a time sheet and it would be rare for the tacho and it to actually match. Was never an issue and didn’t affect rest periods or WTD as although I was being paid I wasn’t actually working so it was rest.
Wouldn’t you be better marking it SDT than implying a ■■■■■■■■ Transmitted Disease?
■■■■■■■■ Transmitted Disease? git
I have always been under the impression that working time directive was for hours paid not just hours worked, as per the holiday ruling which I think has just changed or is being changed?
I figure them tallying is bib and braces.
That said its easier to mark a disc with start/finishing times than manual entries all the time, long live my wagon
IÂ drive trucks because I choose to, not because I have to. I drive for who I want and when I want because I don’t need to earn the money. What I earn from it pays for my toys. That’s the difference between us.
If I had a pound for every time I heard that old chestnut
IÂ drive trucks because I choose to, not because I have to. I drive for who I want and when I want because I don’t need to earn the money. What I earn from it pays for my toys. That’s the difference between us.
If I had a pound for every time I heard that old chestnut
To be fair F-reds, I am in the same boat sadly, my wife is my expensive toy and the offspring she supplied me with take up the slack in my driving money…I could live in the wagon rent free debt free otherwise
