trucker2015:
I will get the exact circumstances from him and re post as my understanding of this is very limited.
Not wanting to make light of this but I suspect the grilling you are about to give your other half will make the questioning he will face in court seem like a chat down the pub. 
I realise that it all seems very unfair at this point. And all this talk of traffic commissioners and licenses being lost seems like a gross over reaction.
But it seems due to the information you have provided, that the company your husband works for has been targeted by VOSA. As a result all infringements have been prosecuted, no matter how minor. This is because if you have 20 drivers regularly doing these things you have described, then it shows a âcourse of conductâ at that company. Unfortunately a great deal of responsibility falls on the individual drivers because they are supposed to know the regulations as well as the company he works for.
It basically seems like the record keeping was pretty crap at this company and your husbands wasnât any better unfortunately.
When I was in trouble as a naive license holder, for similar offences, I went on a CPC course on drivers hours, kept the receipt and certificate etc. It showed I had taken it seriously and was attempting to rectify my knowledge gap. It worked for me. It certainly canât hurt your husband in any way, although mine never went to court.
I wish you all the best luck, and keep my fingers crossed for a slapped wrist and or small fine.
PS losing his license will only be the vocational part of it, ie his HGV, not his car license if it is from the TC.
Conor, just out of interest. Isnât what the OP describes, a lack of record keeping, and not creating a false record?
He hasnât created anything, just not recorded time/lost printouts.
T2015 as previously stated legal assist is expensive but you do mentionâŚ20 othersâŚ1 legal rep.paid for by 21 drivers could work out a lot cheaper,
worth considering.
F-reds:
Conor, just out of interest. Isnât what the OP describes, a lack of record keeping, and not creating a false record?He hasnât created anything, just not recorded time/lost printouts.
I might be wrong i need to find out the exact wording of the charges.
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us â â â â â â â .
LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams âangry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.â
Nick Freeman is the guy in Manchester but heâll be like ÂŁ10k just to let you in the door.
I should have had him for my Dangerous (heâd of got me Careless instead just by being there as the CPS would have just bricked it & waved the white towel) but I was stupidly tight at the time & it ended up costing me 3 times that.
Sounds like VOSA take you to court for not much nowadays then, what a load of â â â â â â â â . Bullying common blokes & the nutters who know how to cover their tracks for the most part get away with it. Seriously thinking of emigrating unless things pick up here as at least they let you get on with driving the things in Canada, NZ & AUS without bending you over for what was it? 2 mins over a 4.5 & whipping the card out a bit early (thatâs the one theyâre doing you for) on private land. Too â â â â though anyway, by far. Must have been a slow day⌠
Thatâll get chucked out within 5 minutes, more waste of taxpayers money & honest hard working bloke stress, not to mention his Mrs. worry on here.
Trucker2015, can you ask your husband if any drivers have left the firm on their own terms or got the sack , then contacted Dvsa or the Police to report the employer or other drivers for offences ?
It is quite common for somebody with a grudge to contact the authorities to get back at the employer or fallen out with a driver or drivers at work.
Good luck with the court case, please let us know how it goes.
20 other drivers with offences sounds serious, it can go either way depending on the judge on the day.
The Cps will have enough evidence to prove to the court.
At a guess the firm he works for may be shut down.
The courts take a dim view on a public safety aspect of tired drivers.
The two minutes over is just the start of it, the Cps will pull a rabbit out of their hat and produce some more offences that your husband may not be aware of until the court date.
They call it digging up all the mud to make the driver or drivers look stupid.
On the day, the atmosphere in the court room will very intimidating and scary, the briefs will use long winded words, and speak eloquently in a manner you are not accustomed to in every day life.
They will speak in a loud and dominating way, designed to make the accused feel weak and admit their guilt.
Basically they have a hard on for your firm & everyoneâs getting a spoon of FU. Once theyâre through the door theyâre after everyone, kind of a âshock & aweâ strategy. It is basically used as a deterrent as all legal prosecutions are. Itâs not the few minutes over they are after people for, itâs pulling the card early. You say he didnât drive even for a minute after this? Or maybe the next man got in & drove for a few minutes after his shift without a card in, whoâs having that time then?
They need to see everything clearly. The fine for driving a couple of minutes over is low anyway so I wouldnât be arsed about that. I canât see partner losing his licence for whatâs been mentioned else weâd all be on the dole.
If youâre nearing retirement just do us all a favour & jump up in court when you are summoned, chuck the licence at the âjudgeâ & tell him to deliver that tat himself. 
Just to add, their is no human sentiment from VOSA & these legal people, once they sniff you. They would quite happily hang you from the gallows for whatever BS theyâre after you for, protect yourself, they will not care once you are inside & you & your family are suffering.
switchlogic:
Thereâs a lawyer in Manchester whoâs made a bloody good living out of finding mistakes in paperwork and procedures to get high profile clients off traffic offences.
Silver_Surfer:
Nick Freeman is the guy in Manchester but heâll be like ÂŁ10k just to let you in the door.I should have had him for my Dangerous (heâd of got me Careless instead just by being there as the CPS would have just bricked it & waved the white towel) but I was stupidly tight at the time & it ended up costing me 3 times that.
As SS and Luke have said, Nick Freeman but you need a lottery win for him to even entertain you.
A good solicitor will spot the errors in the prosecution and get it squared for you no problem, give it a couple of hours googling for a good traffic lawyer/solicitor, it will be worth your while.
Olog Hai:
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us â â â â â â â .LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams âangry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.â
+1
Find out if any of the other drivers are in a union like the URTU. They sort you out solicitors for stuff like this. May work out a hell of a lot cheaper.
muckles:
Olog Hai:
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us â â â â â â â .LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams âangry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.â
+1
+2 to this
Especially in regards his opinion on anyone who works as anything other than a PAYE worker.
Seek proper, professional and, most importantly, appropriate legal advice. Someone who specialises in road transport law, not some random do a bit of everything solicitor or citizens advice helper.
Unfortunately for your other half, as trivial as these offences seem, he is potentially in deep trouble. I doubt this warrants a custodial sentence but he may well be looking at temporary loss of licence and effectively a criminal record making his chances of good employment in the future difficult.
Turning up to this without good representation, is turning up to a gunfight with a pea shooter, it will not end well for you.
One invaluable tip I will give you is this. Throw his employer under the bus, do not protect them as they clearly donât give a rats about him. To them he is replacable, his licence is his livelyhood and your mortgage payments.
Not sure where you are but I can recommend a good solicitor in the northwest.
F-reds:
Conor, just out of interest. Isnât what the OP describes, a lack of record keeping, and not creating a false record?He hasnât created anything, just not recorded time/lost printouts.
The distinction between the two is the motive behind it. The printouts were discarded not out of malice because he kept them for the 28 days required but then didnât know what to do with them so thatâs a lack of record keeping - thereâs at least a hint of trying to comply with the regulations so the offence is purely administrative. The removal of the tacho card whilst still working in order to disguise what he was actually doing is a deliberate creation of a false record no different to putting the tacho on rest whilst you handball 1500 boxes out of the back of a container. You are deliberately not recording what you are doing in order to falsely represent what you are doing as being compliant when you know it isnât.
tmcassett:
muckles:
Olog Hai:
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us â â â â â â â .LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams âangry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.â
+1
+2 to this
Especially in regards his opinion on anyone who works as anything other than a PAYE worker.
I wonât be the one who ends up in court for pulling their card whilst still working. I have no problem with those who do self employment properly - my problem is those doing it for tax evasion whilst simultaneously complaining about big corporations doing exactly what they are - hypocrisy. My problem with self employment is not with the drivers per se but with the agencies abusing it. I support self employment but not at an agency for a quid an hour more than PAYE.
Conor:
tmcassett:
muckles:
Olog Hai:
Conor:
You may find it trivial but this is the reality of the risk you take when you flout the law. Its why some of us continually bang on about it despite people like Dieseldog etc calling us â â â â â â â .LOL. Almost every post of yours I read on here just screams âangry, self-opinionated little man. who walks around with a halo above his head.â
+1
+2 to this
Especially in regards his opinion on anyone who works as anything other than a PAYE worker.
I wonât be the one who ends up in court for pulling their card whilst still working. I have no problem with those who do self employment properly - my problem is those doing it for tax evasion whilst simultaneously complaining about big corporations doing exactly what they are - hypocrisy. My problem with self employment is not with the drivers per se but with the agencies abusing it. I support self employment but not at an agency for a quid an hour more than PAYE.
All this talk of keeping print outs (records) for an infinite Length of time is bollox 28 days yes acceptable but longer no, But you can always get a printout going back further from the truckâs digi tacho if needed, so whereâs to problem ?
As for pulling the card and booking off early (before you actually finish ) if the employer can account for any missing Kâs then VOSTAPO havenât got diddly squat As someone has said the card was pulled early in the yard,
Lots of drivers regularly will tip/load off card during their daily rest period, they may not like it, but they do it to keep their jobs, as some companies expect that of their drivers that is the sad reality of how things are, unless you work for the bigger companies where theres more company BS than you can shake a stick at,
F-reds:
Isnât what the OP describes, a lack of record keeping, and not creating a false record?He hasnât created anything, just not recorded time/lost printouts.
Not handing in the printout(s) will be failing to keep proper records but the pulling of the card is creating a false record.
As a driver working under the tacho regs you are required to keep a full record of your working day, thatâs why there is a manual entry option. He pulled his card early and carried on working; even if itâs just a few minutes there has to be sone other work as he pulled it at the gate and presumably didnât leave the truck there. Bit more driving, doesnât matter itâs on private land itâs still part of a journey that was under EU regs so needs recording, and other work handing in paperwork and keys etc, possibly refuelling and clocking out. None of that was recorded therefore the record he created for that day us false as it did not accurately account for his working day. It doesnât seem much on the grand scheme of things but itâs obvious that flouting of the regulations was endemic at that firm, at least 20 drivers being prosecuted, and he has been caught up in the bigger picture.
The 2 minutes over driving time would not normally in isolation be prosecuted, they tend to operate a discretionary 15 minutes over before serious action is taken. Likewise with the failing to hand in a printout, again on its own not the most serious of offences and the data could still be reprinted from the VU but in cases like this they tend to lump in as much as they can for added impact to help their case. Twenty drivers guilty of 20 offences doesnât sound as bad as when you can get several offences for each driver and the reports can be headlined, " 20 Drivers Guilty of 116 Driverâs Hoyrs Offences." Happens in other situations as well. Couple of blokes have a bit of a punch up outside a pub and as well as an assault charge theyâll throw in drunk and disorderly and a bit of criminal damage if one of them knocked over a flower pot or broke a chair during the incident.