Muckaway, just wondering what happened after you tipped the load in the gateway you must of seen red? Reason i ask just starting out on the tippers i wouldn’t have the balls to do that!
Mullens:
Muckaway, just wondering what happened after you tipped the load in the gateway you must of seen red? Reason i ask just starting out on the tippers i wouldn’t have the balls to do that!
I carried one load of muck and I was 4t overweight; We’ve got aggregate bodies so they’re deeper than normal muckaway ones, but not as deep as feed wagons. We used to get the “you’ve only got half a load on” and our then TM was spineless and just came back with the “it’s the drivers’ responsibility” and “don’t upset the customer”…
I went back, had what I deemed a load (about 11m3-we have metre sticks in the back) but foreman complained and told machine driver to put another “good bucketfull on”. Peed off I simply got into the cab drove to the gate and tipped the lot up. I got banned from that site and got summoned to the TMs office but he couldn’t do a thing…although he did tell me off for holding up traffic on the sc A420 by sticking to 40mph…
On agency I once turned up to take a night trunk for a well known pallet network, found them trying to stuff more pallets onto it, currently 3 high, two wide and about 8 deep on a 18t.
Think the allowed payload was something like 11,000kg? anyway, all these shallow but very heavy pallets stacked was worrying me and I told them so.
Was told it would be fine. When the paperwork came it said 13,500kg and I said that It was overweight and they’d have to offload some of it. They got really arsey with me and lots of shouting later they told me they’d swap some of the pallets over, I saw them offload 6 pallets and load them back on in a different order, while the TM went into the office and came out with new paperwork, with all the same load numbers and barcodes, but all the weights edited so it came out at 10,999kg
I’ll be honest and say I took it out as I’d told them I wouldn’t take it overweight, they said they reloaded it and brought me new paperwork to prove it.
I got to the hub and they brought out their copy of the manifest to sign, sure enough it said 13,500kg on it. When I got back to the depot in the morning I gave them a right rollocking, walked out and haven’t been back since. Fair play to the agency, when I told them they said they’d give the customer the heave ho and sure enough they did. Not something I expected from an agency.
Muckaway:
A lot of the quarries wont give you a ticket for any overload even 100kgs which is nothing when you look at it on the floor, tipped off. Although some weighbridges tell you to move right to the front of the bridge, so the front wheel is starting to come off, thus knocking off 100-200 kgs. I did it last week when shovel driver didn’t react quick enough to my weighloader siren.
I can’t think of a weighridge operator in any of the places I go who would tell a driver to move to the front of the bridge to get his/her weight right?
BB
Winseer:
Drivers have enough on their plates without all the “its your fault if you get caught with our bent setup” [zb].
As well as all the money spent on “health and safety”, VOSA should be fining firms a lot more than the driver gets fined. There are a lot of depots who’ll load the truck without allowing the driver to inspect during loading (sealed, no admission to building, etc.) I’ll look in the back as much as possible after pulling off the bay, and have occasionally caught umpteen pallets of bricks, hazchem loads, and other easy to spot “attempted palm-offs”, but overall it is the driver’s responsibility to keep the firms themselves on their toes.
For your first sentence, I’d have written… Drivers have enough on their plates without worrying about stuff that’s not legally their responsibility. 
A load consisiting of dangerous goods is a shared responsibility between the consignor and the carrier, NOT the driver.
If you’re suspicious that a load counts as dangerous, I’d suggest that you ask the consignor, or if he’s not available, then ask the vehicle owner. If your boss says it’s OK, then you’re covered. If he or the consignor lie to you, you’re still covered. 
If the paperwork doesn’t mention dangerous goods, then you’re good to go because the responsibilities of consignor and carrier are clearly defined in ADR. The only time it’s the driver’s responsibility is when the driver is also the owner of the vehicle, because he is then also the carrier.
There’s a very good reason for the law on dangerous goods being written in the way that is is, and that’s because it recognises the obvious difficulty that a driver would have in knowing exactly what is or isn’t legally counted as “dangerous goods” or the way in which the various exemptions work. None of that is taught or forms exam questions on an ADR course, because it isn’t within a driver’s responsibilities.
I do agree with the rest of your post though, and my dearest wish is that the UK would grow a set and tackle the other issues you’ve raised with a proper consignor liability law as there is in some other countries.
Basilbrush:
Muckaway:
A lot of the quarries wont give you a ticket for any overload even 100kgs which is nothing when you look at it on the floor, tipped off. Although some weighbridges tell you to move right to the front of the bridge, so the front wheel is starting to come off, thus knocking off 100-200 kgs. I did it last week when shovel driver didn’t react quick enough to my weighloader siren.I can’t think of a weighridge operator in any of the places I go who would tell a driver to move to the front of the bridge to get his/her weight right?
BB
There is usually just enough room to get a standard artic on a weighbridge. You just ‘miss judge’ where to stop. Obviously not with your front wheels well off the bridge, just part of your front tyre contact patch over the seam 
.
waynedl:
So, would that be the driver that’d have to pay the fiver?Only go to work to earn money, and you’ve got paperwork that says you’re underweight, and truck looks ok and drives ok, but you should spend a fiver of your own money just in case??
As I understand it, you only pay if you want a ticket. If you just pull onto the weighbridge and ask for your weight, it’s free.
Whilst I’m interested in obtaining a ADR qualification, I have yet to do so. I have a background from once working in a chemical analysis lab before I got my C+E years ago. My objecting to dodgy hazchem loads is more about the WAY they are loaded, rather than the content.
Eg. 4x42gallon drums of Diesel on one pallet, next door to a pallet of Ammonium Nitrate bags. Technically speaking, I can understand why they’d argue that either in isolation doesn’t even warrent an ADR driver - but that of course assumes that everyone involved is ignorant to the dangers of parking combustibles alongside oxidizing agents!
Like defensive driving, I always assume everyone else is an idiot, and avoid accordingly. The knowledge required for ADR from what I’ve seen of it seems more about paperwork rather than the dangers of how different types of chemicals react.
I would imagine that many pallet drivers find pallets of fuel or fertilizer as a normal part of a typical consignment - just not next to each other on an already overweight load!
If VOSA pulled me up, they might even be scared to throw the book at me, in case it all blows up on impact!
Basilbrush:
Muckaway:
A lot of the quarries wont give you a ticket for any overload even 100kgs which is nothing when you look at it on the floor, tipped off. Although some weighbridges tell you to move right to the front of the bridge, so the front wheel is starting to come off, thus knocking off 100-200 kgs. I did it last week when shovel driver didn’t react quick enough to my weighloader siren.I can’t think of a weighridge operator in any of the places I go who would tell a driver to move to the front of the bridge to get his/her weight right?
BB
Cemex Wickwar…
Harry Monk:
waynedl:
So, would that be the driver that’d have to pay the fiver?Only go to work to earn money, and you’ve got paperwork that says you’re underweight, and truck looks ok and drives ok, but you should spend a fiver of your own money just in case??
As I understand it, you only pay if you want a ticket. If you just pull onto the weighbridge and ask for your weight, it’s free.
At our place, yes. Not much else given away free though.
Scarab:
On agency I once turned up to take a night trunk for a well known pallet network, found them trying to stuff more pallets onto it, currently 3 high, two wide and about 8 deep on a 18t.
Think the allowed payload was something like 11,000kg? anyway, all these shallow but very heavy pallets stacked was worrying me and I told them so.Was told it would be fine. When the paperwork came it said 13,500kg and I said that It was overweight and they’d have to offload some of it. They got really arsey with me and lots of shouting later they told me they’d swap some of the pallets over, I saw them offload 6 pallets and load them back on in a different order, while the TM went into the office and came out with new paperwork, with all the same load numbers and barcodes, but all the weights edited so it came out at 10,999kg
I’ll be honest and say I took it out as I’d told them I wouldn’t take it overweight, they said they reloaded it and brought me new paperwork to prove it.
I got to the hub and they brought out their copy of the manifest to sign, sure enough it said 13,500kg on it. When I got back to the depot in the morning I gave them a right rollocking, walked out and haven’t been back since. Fair play to the agency, when I told them they said they’d give the customer the heave ho and sure enough they did. Not something I expected from an agency.
The agency wouldn’t have an option but to remove the firm from the books in my case - I’d have already reported the firm for such blatent “palming off”!
Editing the paperwork doesn’t stop the driver from being busted if VOSA establish that the firm is running with bent loads supported by paperwork. They’ve done that as soon as you ring the bell on the weighplate! You are NOT covered, and I’ve got this from the horses mouth. The VOSA driver explaining an example to me of a guy weighing in by a vosa pull at just over 46 tonnes (38 tonne C+E) who’s springs were bending backwards to the point of breaking, hence why he was pulled. The driver produced paperwork saying he was 37,900kg gross. He got 9 points.The firm was fined £5000 plus costs (nothing to them, but 9 points is a disaster for a driver right?)
Always be suspicious of people who start sentences with “I can assure you…”
Always be suspicious of people in clean high-viz giving you your paperwork.
Always ask someone identifying themselves as “transport manager” to produce their C+E 
I got stopped by VOSA for being over weight in a 7.5t a while ago, think I was about 1tonne over.
Got a £200 fine, but the company agreed to pay because I was acting under their instructions and there was no indication of weight on the paperwork.
I think the big danger isn’t about any fine which may or may not be paid by the firm, but if the offence warrents an endorsement - which a firm can’t really mitigate as how do you put a value on 9 points? This is especially if you already had say, 3 from running a speeding camera? I’ve never heard of a firm paying someone a full drivers wage for the period for which they were disqualified acting on firms orders, unless one counts “cleaning the toilets” or whatever else might be classed as “light duties” at the place one works. I can’t say I’d consider myself very well treated if that happened to me, so I reckon nipping it in the bud has to be the better option.
waynedl:
Does a public weigh bridge cost to weigh on ■■ How much?? How often do people use them because they ‘think’ they may be over-weight?
Yes. The one I use regularly near Swindon is about £5. I stopped at one once in Birmingham (Viridor Perry Barr), and they charged £20 per weigh 
.
The trouble is that the law is that if you’re overweight, the only defence is that you’re en-route to the closest weighbridge to your loading point - even if it’s in completely the opposite direction to your actual destination, and even if it’s run by rip-off merchants charging £20.
Some weighbridges will let you glance at the readout for free, but I don’t believe that they’re required to allow this.
Muckaway:
I think a public weighbridge has to have a digital scale that can be read from the cab aswell.
I don’t think that any of the public weighbridges I’ve used have scales that can be read from the cab - I’ve always had to go to the office.
Driving a 7.5 tonner we often leave a space at the front of the fridge placing load bars and a couple of pallets stood up to make a false headboard , this keeps the weight back off the front axle. Before christmas the cold store loaders I was collecting turkeys from removed my blocker and loaded up to the headboard making my front axle overweight. After complaining to the cold store manager he agreed for them to reload correctly and he agreed it was my resposibility to have my vehicle correctly loaded, at least he was wise enough to agree with the driver so credit due to him.
Meathauler:
Driving a 7.5 tonner we often leave a space at the front of the fridge placing load bars and a couple of pallets stood up to make a false headboard , this keeps the weight back off the front axle. Before christmas the cold store loaders I was collecting turkeys from removed my blocker and loaded up to the headboard making my front axle overweight. After complaining to the cold store manager he agreed for them to reload correctly and he agreed it was my resposibility to have my vehicle correctly loaded, at least he was wise enough to agree with the driver so credit due to him.
you did the right thing, and most importantly, your manner must have been right.
so many drivers rant and rave, when a subtle explanation, in a civil manner is what’s needed. otherwise they just get on the defensive.