Coming home from work tonight and it looks like VOSA are now allowed into the docks. It seemed to be a large operation they had going on, customs and excise checks on fuel, x rays scanners or whatever they are too. I feel a traffic change coming on in the UK /Eire route !!! Not sure if its my imagination but in the last few months there seems to be more tractors from companies i’ve never seen in the dock before waiting for unacompanied trailers coming over and tonight the boat going out seemed to have so many unacompanied P&O trailers on it i don’t think there was room for anyone else! I did notice that non of the P&O tugs that pull trailers off the ferry and along the road with no electric lines and no trailer lenses or bulbs where pulled in for a check. I’m not sure how this squares with the notices that the Port Police put up to say all traffic in the dock must be road legal and their mission statement that they are committed to treating everybody fairly and equally but if you’re sat there getting a fine watching ‘dangerous’ trailers with no lights on going by you might want to ask !! 
I’ve often wondered at the legality or illegality(?) with regards to vehicles on dock areas. It is private land after all, but I realise that the public have access to it too. On many British Steel sites you see obviously unroadworthy shunt motors flying around the place, and it could be argued that the public too have access there.
the maoster:
I’ve often wondered at the legality or illegality(?) with regards to vehicles on dock areas. It is private land after all, but I realise that the public have access to it too. On many British Steel sites you see obviously unroadworthy shunt motors flying around the place, and it could be argued that the public too have access there.
I wondered too.So I asked !!!..
Dear Mr Campbell,
With regard to your FOI request to the Port of Liverpool Police.
I wish to make you aware that the FOI Act 2000 gives a general right
of access to recorded information held by Public Authorities.
Peel Ports (MDHC) are not public authorities and are therefore not
fully bound by the legislation.
However and in order that you understand the current position a port does
not have to erect signs within its boundaries to advise that the Road Traffic Act applies.
The Road Traffic Act 1988 as amended applies to England, Scotland and Wales.
In simple terms the Act applies to vehicles on the road where the public have access,
however, in practice this can be a complex matter to resolve. It is necessary to
understand clearly what is meant in law by the terms ‘road’, ‘to which the public
has access’ and ‘a public place’. These are well documented.
Roads on the Mersey Dock Estate fall into two categories:
Those to which the definition of ‘Road’ in the Road Traffic Act 1988 section 192(1)
will apply i.e. the three Birkenhead — Wallasey routes across the Mersey Dock Estateand any landing stage to which it is considered that the public have access.
All other dock roads.
Section 11 of the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board Act 1971 provides:
‘(1) in this section…‘dock road’ as any road, pier, wharf, quay, jetty, bridge or other
work or land which is situate within the ring ownership boundary…Ring ownership
boundary means the boundary within which is included all lands belonging to, or for
the time being held by, the Board and not separated from a dock by land in other
ownership or by a road maintainable at the public expense.
(2)(a) The [Road Traffic] Act of 1960, the [Road Traffic Regulation] Act of 1967 and
the Road Safety Act 1967 shall have effect as if, in the provisions thereof hereinafter
referred to, the expressions ‘road’ and ‘highway’ included a dock road and any
person who commits an offence under any of those provisions as extended by this
section shall be liable to be dealt with in all respects as if the offence had been
committed under those provisions on a road as defined by section 257 of the Act of
1960 or section 104 of the Act of 1967…’
(2)(b) In the Act of 1960 as extended by this section the expression ‘highway authority’
shall mean the Board and the phrase ‘dangerous to the public’ shall mean dangerous to
other persons using the dock road.
The case of R v Murray (Gerrard) [1984] RTR 203 clarifies the issue. This case considered
the status of a private car park in the docks at Liverpool where the defendant had
driven whilst disqualified. The judge followed Botwood v Phillips in considering the definition
of ‘dock road’ in the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board Act 1971. He held that a private car park
in the dock area was situated on land within the limits of the Board and was therefore within the
definition. The relevant section of the Road Traffic Act therefore applied.
I hope that the above is of assistance to you.
Regards
Arwel Williams
Deputy Chief Officer
Port of Liverpool Police
0151 949 1212
Oh I do enjoy a bit of legalese!
Why couldn’t they just have said “it’s a private road so do what you want”, or alternatively “it’s public your hairy bottomed Herbert, so if you screw around we’ll knick you”.
I attended the last Port of Liverpool Hauliers meeting a few weeks back and Taffy Williams said VOSA will have a presence at the dock for around 3 months and he was also clamping down on all dock shunters regarding driving licenses and checking that all suzzies are connected, also there will be an ongoing purge on using a mobile while driving, he said a fixed penalty with points will be issued and it’s a misconception that you can’t receive points for offenses on the dock.
I saw the mob just before Strand Rd exit last night, it was a big operation, when I passed they had Irish trucks with the trailer curtains pulled back checking the loads.
are they manning both entrances?
They were yesterday and I expect it will always be the case as it will only take 2 units to cover the whole port if you setup at the bottleneck.
I expect the focus is to get their fines up before year end so they get their bonus!
They’ve been lurking around Soton docks aswell this week… bar stewards
At the gates again first thing this morning, directing them all up to switch. I’ll reckon there was more trucks in switch island this morning than at Lymm truckstop . Kerching !!
i wonder how offten one of the vosa team get a good hiding from someone because the way there behaving at the minute i am sure it will be the next thing in the paper’s well unless your smart enough and give them the respect they deserve out of work hrs they sure aint to keen then .
there just beyond a joke now and drivers may aswell remove company graphics and just get new ones with vosa cashpoint .
everytime they have pulled me not actualy found anything wrong as strictly by the book but they just remind me of a doggy garage trying to find a problem if not create one .
psv8:
everytime they have pulled me not actualy found anything wrong as strictly by the book but they just remind me of a doggy garage trying to find a problem if not create one .
Isn’t that the point though? To get rid of the cowboys, let everyone be strictly to the book and improve the standards.
Many will remember the days when the sealed ferry trailers coming off the docks were death traps with a couple of frayed straps holding 22tonne of steel, or tyres down to the wire, air leaks and a home made light board.
Or the bosses who expect drivers to work dangerously long hours, it wont hurt to clip their wings. I have done the silly hours driving with 4 or 5 hours sleep to make a deadline, only to find when you are tipped you have an even sillier deadline to meet.
i am all for safer stuff on the road’s but the point is they give out fines willy nilly for stuff that can not be spotted by the driver on there daily check’s .
instead of giving them say a letter with 24hrs / 48hrs/ 7days depending on the problem and then have to return to a vosa centre on route to get it signed off rather than just give out a fine and 9 times out of 10 your back on the road again just with a lighter wallet and the problem still exists and still need’s to be paid for .
fair enough if a driver is caught bending the hrs thats another matter completly as it’s done delibretly .
it serves one purpose and that is reliving motorist’s of there hard earned cash , suppose they will always say its to make it safer place and to make driver’s aware etc .
as you have said at one point drivers would use a tacho then reuse it as a frisby start a fresh , i genrealy see it more accident prone now than it ever has been , there aint a day that goes by you dont hear about a truck crashing or multi pileup and someone’s died due to it ,
making it a safer place bit like the new plan to put pepole at the age of 18 through there hgv licnce makes it safer does that , in my opinion it should still be 25 like it used to be
OK PSV, which willy nilly fines? As Rog said before on the other VOSA thread, how many people have actually been fined, and how many have told the full story as to why they were fined? The fines are for things the driver should know about, have a look at the list on the net and see for yourself. Yeah everyone gets checked from time to time, but being checked is not always a fine is it, like I said on the other thread, get rid of VOSA then the problems will start.
what they are doing in liverpool docks is crap.
i drove for a local company in the dock a long time age,loading containers.
no lights on trailers.
then we got lights on the trailers when vosa started haunting the place.
p and o shunters still dont put lights on.
i am in the dock al the time although i am not driving a lorry now.
i see vosa at the dock gate in the morning waiting for all my countrymen[and poles] to come out,they are telling them how to get to switch island.
vosa are nothing but a bank now.
and not very nice people either.[scum]
get the money in and pay no interest.
the modern day trucks that we see on the roads are goood quality engineering.
still vosa are hounding the drivers about them.
as for tachos.#we cant go a minute over our time.
as an old time driver and one who is agreement with drivers not having to drive all night and keep to general driving laws.
i despise the way all these enforcment agencies are operating and making criminals out of drivers who are genuinely doing their job.
there are more drivers in europe than police.i am not suggesting anarchy,but the french way is good.
strike to get rid of the hassle.
remember the elesmere port fuel blockage.
we have power.
who has the guts.?
greg50:
what they are doing in liverpool docks is crap.
i drove for a local company in the dock a long time age,loading containers.
no lights on trailers.
then we got lights on the trailers when vosa started haunting the place.
p and o shunters still dont put lights on.
i am in the dock al the time although i am not driving a lorry now.
i see vosa at the dock gate in the morning waiting for all my countrymen[and poles] to come out,they are telling them how to get to switch island.
vosa are nothing but a bank now.
and not very nice people either.[scum]
get the money in and pay no interest.
the modern day trucks that we see on the roads are goood quality engineering.
still vosa are hounding the drivers about them.
as for tachos.#we cant go a minute over our time.
as an old time driver and one who is agreement with drivers not having to drive all night and keep to general driving laws.
i despise the way all these enforcment agencies are operating and making criminals out of drivers who are genuinely doing their job.
there are more drivers in europe than police.i am not suggesting anarchy,but the french way is good.
strike to get rid of the hassle.
remember the elesmere port fuel blockage.
we have power.
who has the guts.?
well said that man.
greg50:
what they are doing in liverpool docks is crap.
i drove for a local company in the dock a long time age,loading containers.
no lights on trailers.
then we got lights on the trailers when vosa started haunting the place.
p and o shunters still dont put lights on.
i am in the dock al the time although i am not driving a lorry now.
i see vosa at the dock gate in the morning waiting for all my countrymen[and poles] to come out,they are telling them how to get to switch island.
vosa are nothing but a bank now.
and not very nice people either.[scum]
get the money in and pay no interest.
the modern day trucks that we see on the roads are goood quality engineering.
still vosa are hounding the drivers about them.
as for tachos.#we cant go a minute over our time.
as an old time driver and one who is agreement with drivers not having to drive all night and keep to general driving laws.
i despise the way all these enforcment agencies are operating and making criminals out of drivers who are genuinely doing their job.
there are more drivers in europe than police.i am not suggesting anarchy,but the french way is good.
strike to get rid of the hassle.
remember the elesmere port fuel blockage.
we have power.
who has the guts.?
well said end of day if pepole stuck together they could fetch this country to it’s knees soon enough that they would get the message
VOSTAPO"S most are a set of “” sounds like" merchant bankers 
