Hi All,
I’ve been having issues with my FH16 600HP with excessive fuel usage, low power and surging/rough running when cold.
Spent $16k so far on VEB Rockers(which fixed the fuel usage) the found a broken wire on #5 injector which seems to have fixed the power issue. They have done injector tests(which are only 50,000kms old) and also done a compression test which all passed perfectly.
I have a short video here which shows the noise it makes while surging, it also billows white smoke.
It stops after 2-3min and does not re-appear until the following day(12-24hours) so it is not a cold engine problem as 3min isn’t enough time to heat anything up for long enough for 12 hours.
Im thinking along the line of air in the fuel somewhere but the mechanic is now suggesting a new engine harness.
My wife’s Renault Trafic did this. First start of the day or if it had been parked up several hours you’d start the van - so whenever it was doing a cold start, it’d idle like crap like this, loads of white smoke out of the exhaust with a slight odour of diesel and after a few minutes it’d settle down but it would be lacking in power.
It was the electronics in the EGR valve that a garage fitted - turns out they billed us for a genuine one, fitted a £60 Ebay special. Unplug the valve and it’d start normally and the power would be back but obviously you’d get an EML light and fault code for the EGR valve. I could give you a technical explanation why, basically it boils down to the maker of the EGR valve wanting to save 1 pence per unit on a diode, but essentially it was a fault with an electronic component spiking the ECU resulting in the ECU not knowing what day of week it was and telling the injectors to dump diesel into the cylinders either constantly or at the wrong time which was most noticeable on cold start. If the injectors are not spraying the fuel into the cylinders at the right time it can result in surging and white smoke.
Unfortunately not many mechanics do electronics so they’d not know to put an oscilloscope on the injector to make sure it’s getting a pulse and not just a constant +12/24V signal, or put one on the ECU output to each injector and on the connector on the injector it gets sent to at the same time on a second channel on the scope, compare the timings of the two signals then in either case backtrace. They’ll use the sledgehammer to crack a walnut solution of just swapping out stuff til it works. Unfortunately as you can see from the cause with my wife’s van, it could be something that they’d never figure out in a month of sundays.
Injecting fuel into the cylinders at the ‘wrong’ time would lead to unburnt fuel and grey smoke, not white. White smoke (assuming not just condensation from the exhaust pipework) is usually a sign of water getting into the engine, failed head gasket etc. If it’s only doing this for a few minutes at cold start then it could be that the water is seeping into the engine overnight and collecting. Check your water usage and also check your oil for signs of water (looks like a brown coloured mayonnaise). I would investigate this path first and if all checks okay then look at the other suggestions.
Here is my 2 cents from someone who has never driven Volvos.
Replacing the harness for an issue like that is nuts.
Any issues with the DPF and regen?
Is the guy an actual mechanic or is he a fitter?
If he is a fitter he will just keep suggesting new parts to change until the problem is solved.
My suggestion is find another mechanic.
How bad is the extra fuel consumption? Or is the only issue you have now is the bit of surging when cold? If thats the case then I’ve had quite a few trucks that had this and it never caused any issue once it warmed up.
Bleeding your fuel line isnt an expensive job though. If you think that might help. But if you just had injectors looked at then why would there be air in the system? I mean even if the mechanic is just a fitter surely he would of ensured there was no air in the fuel lines.
adam277:
Here is my 2 cents from someone who has never driven Volvos.
Replacing the harness for an issue like that is nuts.
Any issues with the DPF and regen?
Is the guy an actual mechanic or is he a fitter?
If he is a fitter he will just keep suggesting new parts to change until the problem is solved.
My suggestion is find another mechanic.
How bad is the extra fuel consumption? Or is the only issue you have now is the bit of surging when cold? If thats the case then I’ve had quite a few trucks that had this and it never caused any issue once it warmed up.
Bleeding your fuel line isnt an expensive job though. If you think that might help. But if you just had injectors looked at then why would there be air in the system? I mean even if the mechanic is just a fitter surely he would of ensured there was no air in the fuel lines.
Thanks for the reply.
This is The Volvo dealership, one of the biggest workshops in Australia.
I had it at my normal mechanic and they couldn’t find anything wrong and suggested taking it to Volvo as they may have had it before. Apparently they have never seen this before.
The only issue I have now is the surging and white smoke while cold.
I did wonder this as there was birds living in it last year which blew out while taking off from our yard.
But why would it only do this if it was cold? also Volvo checked the back pressure which was all ok.
Conor:
My wife’s Renault Trafic did this. First start of the day or if it had been parked up several hours you’d start the van
This is what concerns me it could be something extremely random, it has only ever been worked on by Volvo Australia until I brought it (it had this problem when I brought it)
So i would assume they have only ever used genuine parts.
Mick Bracewell:
Injecting fuel into the cylinders at the ‘wrong’ time would lead to unburnt fuel and grey smoke, not white. White smoke (assuming not just condensation from the exhaust pipework) is usually a sign of water getting into the engine, failed head gasket etc. If it’s only doing this for a few minutes at cold start then it could be that the water is seeping into the engine overnight and collecting. Check your water usage and also check your oil for signs of water (looks like a brown coloured mayonnaise). I would investigate this path first and if all checks okay then look at the other suggestions.
Hi,
Just had the head reconditioned while they repaired the timing gear cover that was leaking oil. No water in oil or oil in water and not using any of either.
adam277:
Here is my 2 cents from someone who has never driven Volvos.
Replacing the harness for an issue like that is nuts.
Any issues with the DPF and regen?
Is the guy an actual mechanic or is he a fitter?
If he is a fitter he will just keep suggesting new parts to change until the problem is solved.
My suggestion is find another mechanic.
How bad is the extra fuel consumption? Or is the only issue you have now is the bit of surging when cold? If thats the case then I’ve had quite a few trucks that had this and it never caused any issue once it warmed up.
Bleeding your fuel line isnt an expensive job though. If you think that might help. But if you just had injectors looked at then why would there be air in the system? I mean even if the mechanic is just a fitter surely he would of ensured there was no air in the fuel lines.
Thanks for the reply.
This is The Volvo dealership, one of the biggest workshops in Australia.
I had it at my normal mechanic and they couldn’t find anything wrong and suggested taking it to Volvo as they may have had it before. Apparently they have never seen this before.
The only issue I have now is the surging and white smoke while cold.
His point is that knowledgeable mechanics are a rare breed these days. Main dealers employ 99% monkeys who “fix” things not by doing any mechanical investigative work, but by plugging the truck ECU into their computer and pressing “find what’s wrong” button on their keyboard. If computer tells them a part may be broken from finding a fault code logged, monkey removes said part without any deeper investigation, puts it in the nearest bin, fits a new one and gives your truck back saying it’s fixed and hands you a 4 figure bill. If computer doesn’t find any fault code, no investigative work is done by anyone as they are all clueless monkeys and truck gets handed back to you with a nasally “we couldn’t replicate the fault, sir” and you’re on your own.
In short, based on what you’ve said thus far, you are likely to end up bankrupt before you ever find out what’s wrong with it as Volvo will keep throwing new parts at it in the hope that one of them fixes it and will continue to do so ad infinitum so long as you keep paying the bills. I sympathise with your predicament but if I were in your shoes I’d be taking it to the nearest truck dealer that doesn’t know about its problems and swiftly part-ex’ing it for something that works.
His only issue is a bit of surging and white smoke when cold.
All the Mercedes actros trucks I drove did this pretty much. This was just normal At Tesco
This also happened with many dafs and Scanias that I drove.
I did wonder this as there was birds living in it last year which blew out while taking off from our yard.
But why would it only do this if it was cold? also Volvo checked the back pressure which was all ok.
The stackpipe is the pickup from the fuel tank, if it has birds living in it you have bigger issues to worry about.
White smoke and surging when cold. Are you sure someone hasn’t nicked your engine and replaced it with a Gardner?
I do agree with Mick Bracewell though about the main dealer ‘mechanics,’ not always the best and I speak from experience.
Mick Bracewell:
His linked video clearly illustrates that the truck is very poorly.
I disagree. When I worked at Tesco most of the mercedes had a little surging while cold.
Also with the Tesco lorries the smoke and the slight surging went away after 2-3 minutes.
The lists of what this could be is long.
If all your seeing is a bit of white smoke on start up and a tad of fluxation in your RPM while your lorry warms up I would not worry about it.
Mick Bracewell:
In short, based on what you’ve said thus far, you are likely to end up bankrupt before you ever find out what’s wrong with it as Volvo will keep throwing new parts at it in the hope that one of them fixes it and will continue to do so ad infinitum so long as you keep paying the bills. I sympathise with your predicament but if I were in your shoes I’d be taking it to the nearest truck dealer that doesn’t know about its problems and swiftly part-ex’ing it for something that works.
Trucks arnt cheap in Australia this is a $150-160,000 AUD truck, i dont want to sell it for a small problem.
It runs perfect after 2min and the compression test came back spot on so its not the engine itself.
It will be something trivial that might just take a while to fix.
I did have an Iveco that blew white smoke while cold from new but it ran perfect no surging.
The dealership mechanics dont seem to be too bad in Australia. Ive dealt with most of them down my way, a few will try to rob you if they can but they do know what they are doing
Mick Bracewell:
In short, based on what you’ve said thus far, you are likely to end up bankrupt before you ever find out what’s wrong with it as Volvo will keep throwing new parts at it in the hope that one of them fixes it and will continue to do so ad infinitum so long as you keep paying the bills. I sympathise with your predicament but if I were in your shoes I’d be taking it to the nearest truck dealer that doesn’t know about its problems and swiftly part-ex’ing it for something that works.
Trucks arnt cheap in Australia this is a $150-160,000 AUD truck, i dont want to sell it for a small problem.
It runs perfect after 2min and the compression test came back spot on so its not the engine itself.
It will be something trivial that might just take a while to fix.
I did have an Iveco that blew white smoke while cold from new but it ran perfect no surging.
The dealership mechanics dont seem to be too bad in Australia. Ive dealt with most of them down my way, a few will try to rob you if they can but they do know what they are doing
Honestly do not worry about it.
My dad had a issue with his van. It made a squeaky noise when cold. He must of spent £2000 replacing bits just to fix a squeaking noise that had zero impact.
Changed all the pulleys and the belts. Among many other things.
It turned out to be something completely unrelated that cause the issue. Although it was like 10 years ago now.
The moral of the story is. Sometimes it is better to wait until the problem is more readily identifable.
Another cause could be you just had work done on it so now you have new parts mixing with old parts.
Could also be just a sticky component that doesnt open up or function properly until it gets up to temp. I dunno I am just spit balling.
Is it actually surging though?
For surging issues it could be a bad fuel line that is sucking in air. (Although why would it go away after 2 minutes)
Checking fuel pipes for cracks
Change fuel filter and see if the seal is not broken.
See if there is any issues with the adblue tank (crystallizing is not uncommon on the vales)
Could be an electrical issue with the poteniometer. (doubt it)
Dodgy Fuel Solenoid Valve. Or the wires are not connecting properly.
Bad fuel pump (not likely)
Clogged air filter or DPF filter
Or one of the many sensors in the truck is faulty. (seems likely)
You’d have to get a mechanic who knows his stuff and is good at troubleshooting to figure it out if is really bugging you. Because the list of possible causes is long.
finally got to the bottom of it, we changed the engine harness and it made no change ($4k).
then changed the VEB solenoid and it is FIXED ($1100)
the cheapest option of everything I’ve done fixed the problem.
