Our manager is insisting that attending a staff meeting on a Saturday morning after the night drivers have finished their fri/sat shift just 6 hours before, is both legal and does not affect their daily or weekly rest.
The EU rules state that any time spent at work for any employer where there is obligation, or instruction does count under the EU tacho laws.
the meeting is held on company premises, the drivers are paid to be there, and during the meeting they are instructed by the management on new procedures etc.
our manager is saying that because its voluntary. ie you dont have to be there (but if you dont attend its put on your record), that its not covered under the guidelines.
I disagree, but does anyone know the definitive answer?
if you are being paid to come to work and, if you don’t it will go on you recored then that is not voluntary and is classed as work
Guidance on the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
What counts as working time?
2.1 Main Points
Working time is not attendance or shift time. It does not include travelling between home and
work (however, it should be noted, that in certain circumstances such periods may count as
“other work” under the separate European drivers’ hours rules), lunch breaks, other breaks,
periods of availability, evening classes or day-release courses.
Working time includes job-related training associated with normal work and training that is
part of the company’s commercial transport operation.
Work carried out for another employer (who undertakes road transport activities within scope
of the European drivers’ hours rules) counts towards the total working time performed by the
mobile worker.
Voluntary work and activities performed by mobile workers who are part-time retained fire
fighters, special constables and members of the reserve forces should not be counted towards
these limits.
and all so you would have to consider your required EU regs rest and if you have only had 6 hours off then that you have not had sufficient rest and therefore the 6 hours would not count as rest
you most have a rest of 11 hours or 9 hours if you have any left in that week within a period of 24 hours
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Dunk:
the drivers are paid to be there
Dunk:
during the meeting they are instructed by the management on new procedures etc
To me, the above 2 quotes mean there is NO exemption for RTD (WTD) or EU regs but wait for a site regs GURU to confirm this please (tachograph, coffeeholic, geebee45 - to name a few )
2. What counts as working time?
2.1 Main Points
Working time is not attendance or shift time. It does not include travelling between home and
work (however, it should be noted, that in certain circumstances such periods may count as
“other work” under the separate European drivers’ hours rules), lunch breaks, other breaks,
periods of availability, evening classes or day-release courses.
Working time includes job-related training associated with normal work and training that is
part of the company’s commercial transport operation.
LOL…these are my thoughts exactly. trouble is all the management right up to the Vice President agree with him and Im not talking about a small operator here…
I have tried to get VOSA to clarify but they arent interested
LOL…these are my thoughts exactly. trouble is all the management right up to the Vice President agree with him and Im not talking about a small operator here…
I have tried to get VOSA to clarify but they arent interested
have there put it in writing, it would be interesting if the would
Mysterious things happen in area 51, and not many people know this but, that’s where ROG single-handedly dealt with an alien invasion. He simplified the UFO flying rules for them, causing them to bugger off very quickly for fear of heavy losses thereby forcing their high-command into a strategic re-think. They haven’t been seen since, and rumour has it that they’ve re-classified the Earth as uninhabitable.
Dunk:
also tried phoning them and was told that they couldnt clarify it any further than the printed guidelines.
To be fair to them the printed guidelines couldn’t be more clear.
A rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver may freely dispose of his time. Time spent working in other employment or under obligation or instruction, regardless of the occupation type, cannot be counted as rest, including work where you are self-employed.
Simple solution. Complete a tacho record for the period you are at the meeting, either by manual entries on a chart or by the manual input facility on a digi tacho. Submit that record along with the rest of your records and you will get an infringement back from the taco analysis people your company use. You then have documented proof you are correct and your manager is indeed an idiot.
I totally agree that the guidelines are absolutely clear, however its like water off a ducks back with him.
His answer is always the same, those rules dont apply because its voluntary…You know and I know that it makes no difference, but hes the guy in charge.
one other driver actually left a tacho in his vehicle to cover the last meeting. this never seemed to show up on his analysis sheet…spooky huh?
Im really not joking when i say that if VOSA did a spot check on our office to check tachos, defects etc, they would think its their birthday.
If anyone remembers George Orwell’s Animal Farm, the rules in our handbook get changed in much the same way as the rules the pigs laid down.
Dunk:
I totally agree that the guidelines are absolutely clear, however its like water off a ducks back with him.
His answer is always the same, those rules dont apply because its voluntary…You know and I know that it makes no difference, but hes the guy in charge.
Hi Dunk, then the answer to the riddle is fairly easy now he’s said that…
Simply ask him to show you in the Regs where voluntary attendance doesn’t count, but don’t hold your breath whilst he tries, cos it ain’t there.
When I teach ADR, I’m required to point out that the course counts as duty time during the intro on day #1.
If I’m subject to an external verification visit and I forget to do this, I’m marked down to a grade 2 in the verifier’s report.
I’ve only forgotten once, but I soon found out how seriously they take it in the de-brief.
)
Mysterious things happen in area 51, and not many people know this but, that’s where ROG single-handedly dealt with an alien invasion. He simplified the UFO flying rules for them, causing them to bugger off very quickly for fear of heavy losses thereby forcing their high-command into a strategic re-think. They haven’t been seen since, and rumour has it that they’ve re-classified the Earth as uninhabitable. 
