Don’t think you’d see that much on anything other than a flat either as in the era when rear windows were fitted routinely there typically was no side air deflector either.
robroy:
I didn’t think of that Juddian, we both remember when all sleeper cab motors had rear windows.
I think it was the MAN that started the trend of a complete blank at the back and sides of the cab.
It certainly made reversing a lot simpler especially if coupled to a flat trailer, it also helped to master the art if lacking experience.
I was issued a twin steer Sed Ack 401 sleeper in 84 (some might say poor old you but it proved to be about the best working lorry i’ve had and that’s including the latest electronic junk), that came without rear windows so again following the trend, but my boss who was a wise stick asked me if i wanted one or two rear fitting or leave em be, so i had both done and they supplied really good insulating pads that sealed the windows well for nights out.
Mainly bulk tippers so used to do some really pokey farms and the like, it made the job miles easier and i’d have done some damage without them without a doubt.
I asked at my place now about back windows, the damage rate is serious especially at night, ask about manual boxes to help with close work of which we do a lot on the tanks, no one’s in the least interested, oh well keep calm and carry on.
Juddian:
robroy:
I didn’t think of that Juddian, we both remember when all sleeper cab motors had rear windows.
I think it was the MAN that started the trend of a complete blank at the back and sides of the cab.
It certainly made reversing a lot simpler especially if coupled to a flat trailer, it also helped to master the art if lacking experience.I was issued a twin steer Sed Ack 401 sleeper in 84 (some might say poor old you but it proved to be about the best working lorry i’ve had and that’s including the latest electronic junk), that came without rear windows so again following the trend, but my boss who was a wise stick asked me if i wanted one or two rear fitting or leave em be, so i had both done and they supplied really good insulating pads that sealed the windows well for nights out.
Mainly bulk tippers so used to do some really pokey farms and the like, it made the job miles easier and i’d have done some damage without them without a doubt.I asked at my place now about back windows, the damage rate is serious especially at night, ask about manual boxes to help with close work of which we do a lot on the tanks, no one’s in the least interested, oh well keep calm and carry on.
I’ve driven, and owned, quite a few 401s, a bit rough and ready by today’s standards but a good hard work horse in their day.
The pads you are on about also came with the F10, cheaper I suppose than buying a non standard specced motor.
Will have to disagree with the manuals, although maybe better and more efficient to drive, I’ve just got lazy nowadays 
Own Account Driver:
I’m seriously thinking about starting another thread about veteran drivers who can’t understand forum posts.This has nothing to do with the following:
Newbies who can’t reverse or drivers not lending a hand to spot other drivers back
Eastern Europeans
Difficult reverses into very tight bays etc.
It’s about a driver, who had been driving to the same drop for five years who couldn’t reverse into the yard, off a decent width road, and instead had to wait and get the yard cleared so he could drive in.
Now all the hugz for drivers where reversing isn’t their strong point is all very sweet but, the bottom line is this, being able to reverse your vehicle safely is kind of important and the Driving Standards Agency agrees with me by including it in part of the test. So these drivers somehow manage to bag the runs where there is no reversing and find spaces they can drive into in MSAs, or avoid them altogether but, I still don’t really understand how they don’t come a cropper as most driving assessments will include reversing on to a bay and they must risk ending up on a diversion or holiday cover every now and again. It just seems mad to bluff their way through.
Well what do you want us to say, i’ve given my opinion about some of the older drivers earlier in the thread.
I’ll put a different slant on it then.
Maybe if more bosses got their act together, stopped scraping the cheapest licence holders from the bottom of the barrel, and instead paid serious money for the cream of the crop, then treated those good people with respect and made it clear that they were paying for quality work and if quality work didn’t arrive then they’d be out and back down to the barrel again…maybe we’d see a change in attitude.
In practice there are still a good number of decent drivers out there of all ages and experiences who take a pride in their work, and who if they were issued with the correctly specced vehicles and treated with some respect would do their best even the gaffer and his accolytes are ignorant fools.
If the best are assumed to be as useless as the scrapings, treated with disrespect by aloof directors and snotty twerps in admin, issued silly electronic toy lorries because they aint trusted to change gear themselves, treated like lepers and herded into sub standard filthy cramped cages and generally ignored at RDC crap holes by barely literate knuckle draggers, don’t be surprised if even the best drivers end up not giving a fig either.
contempt breeds contempt.
Own Account Driver:
I’m seriously thinking about starting another thread about veteran drivers who can’t understand forum posts.This has nothing to do with the following:
Newbies who can’t reverse or drivers not lending a hand to spot other drivers back
Eastern Europeans
Difficult reverses into very tight bays etc.
A thread is like releasing birds, once you let them out in the big wide world you really don’t any control where they go. Some will get shot down straightway, some will saor high and other will go round in circles until they run out of puff, especially if Carryfast starts posting.
Own Account Driver:
It’s about a driver, who had been driving to the same drop for five years who couldn’t reverse into the yard, off a decent width road, and instead had to wait and get the yard cleared so he could drive in.So these drivers somehow manage to bag the runs where there is no reversing and find spaces they can drive into in MSAs, or avoid them altogether but, I still don’t really understand how they don’t come a cropper as most driving assessments will include reversing on to a bay and they must risk ending up on a diversion or holiday cover every now and again. It just seems mad to bluff their way through.
I think this happens in all industries, there are people who manage to avoid things they can’t do for years, despite it being part of the job. I know some that even get promotion and are thought highly of by management because they’re so good at bluffing their way through.
Juddian:
Own Account Driver:
I’m seriously thinking about starting another thread about veteran drivers who can’t understand forum posts.This has nothing to do with the following:
Newbies who can’t reverse or drivers not lending a hand to spot other drivers back
Eastern Europeans
Difficult reverses into very tight bays etc.
It’s about a driver, who had been driving to the same drop for five years who couldn’t reverse into the yard, off a decent width road, and instead had to wait and get the yard cleared so he could drive in.
Now all the hugz for drivers where reversing isn’t their strong point is all very sweet but, the bottom line is this, being able to reverse your vehicle safely is kind of important and the Driving Standards Agency agrees with me by including it in part of the test. So these drivers somehow manage to bag the runs where there is no reversing and find spaces they can drive into in MSAs, or avoid them altogether but, I still don’t really understand how they don’t come a cropper as most driving assessments will include reversing on to a bay and they must risk ending up on a diversion or holiday cover every now and again. It just seems mad to bluff their way through.
Well what do you want us to say, i’ve given my opinion about some of the older drivers earlier in the thread.
I’ll put a different slant on it then.
Maybe if more bosses got their act together, stopped scraping the cheapest licence holders from the bottom of the barrel, and instead paid serious money for the cream of the crop, then treated those good people with respect and made it clear that they were paying for quality work and if quality work didn’t arrive then they’d be out and back down to the barrel again…maybe we’d see a change in attitude.
In practice there are still a good number of decent drivers out there of all ages and experiences who take a pride in their work, and who if they were issued with the correctly specced vehicles and treated with some respect would do their best even the gaffer and his accolytes are ignorant fools.
If the best are assumed to be as useless as the scrapings, treated with disrespect by aloof directors and snotty twerps in admin, issued silly electronic toy lorries because they aint trusted to change gear themselves, treated like lepers and herded into sub standard filthy cramped cages and generally ignored at RDC crap holes by barely literate knuckle draggers, don’t be surprised if even the best drivers end up not giving a fig either.
contempt breeds contempt.
I was more hoping someone might work with a driver like this and if everyone knows and they cover for them or no-one really covers for them and they somehow get away with some nifty BS.
Really because most places I’ve worked I can’t see how they’d get away with it and personally I’d find it pretty stressful always hoping you’re not going to come unstuck and would probably look for other work in all honesty.
What interests me really is how they get away with it and the amount of drivers like this as although the majority of drivers are clearly ok at reversing in most situations I reckon there’s a fair amount out there who’ll avoid it if at all possible.
muckles:
Own Account Driver:
I’m seriously thinking about starting another thread about veteran drivers who can’t understand forum posts.This has nothing to do with the following:
Newbies who can’t reverse or drivers not lending a hand to spot other drivers back
Eastern Europeans
Difficult reverses into very tight bays etc.
A thread is like releasing birds, once you let them out in the big wide world you really don’t any control where they go. Some will get shot down straightway, some will saor high and other will go round in circles until they run out of puff, especially if Carryfast starts posting.
Own Account Driver:
It’s about a driver, who had been driving to the same drop for five years who couldn’t reverse into the yard, off a decent width road, and instead had to wait and get the yard cleared so he could drive in.So these drivers somehow manage to bag the runs where there is no reversing and find spaces they can drive into in MSAs, or avoid them altogether but, I still don’t really understand how they don’t come a cropper as most driving assessments will include reversing on to a bay and they must risk ending up on a diversion or holiday cover every now and again. It just seems mad to bluff their way through.
I think this happens in all industries, there are people who manage to avoid things they can’t do for years, despite it being part of the job. I know some that even get promotion and are thought highly of by management because they’re so good at bluffing their way through.
See my reply to Juddian but what really interested me is I would find the stress of bluffing not worth it.
The problem is the Trucknet birds seem to have two favourite destinations Eastern Europe and Thatcher era eighties Britain.
Own Account Driver:
Muckles:
Own Account Driver:
It’s about a driver, who had been driving to the same drop for five years who couldn’t reverse into the yard, off a decent width road, and instead had to wait and get the yard cleared so he could drive in.So these drivers somehow manage to bag the runs where there is no reversing and find spaces they can drive into in MSAs, or avoid them altogether but, I still don’t really understand how they don’t come a cropper as most driving assessments will include reversing on to a bay and they must risk ending up on a diversion or holiday cover every now and again. It just seems mad to bluff their way through.
I think this happens in all industries, there are people who manage to avoid things they can’t do for years, despite it being part of the job. I know some that even get promotion and are thought highly of by management because they’re so good at bluffing their way through.
See my reply to Juddian but what really interested me is I would find the stress of bluffing not worth it.
The problem is the Trucknet birds seem to have two favourite destinations Eastern Europe and Thatcher era eighties Britain.
Not worked with a truck driver like this, well at least not one that couldn’t reverse, but have worked with others who managed to bluff their way through, not sure about their stress levels, but I didn’t cover for them in fact in some cases hoped they’d get found out, but they’ve develop coping strategies, in fact if called upon to do the job they avoided they could even turn it round and make somebody else look bad to divert attention from them. And the longer they do it the better they get at covering up.
Ah , i’m with you now OAD.
Why is it happening?
The problem is as much down to management as anything else.
Example only, you have ten drivers, 4 of which are diamonds 4 reliable and can do the job but no real interest or pride and 2 that really shouldn’t be around lorries at all, those numbers might vary considerably either way depending on the job.
In a perfect world management would realise those two numpties aint worth a light within weeks of employing them and get shut of them, and train the middling lads up and make the job rewarding enough so they want to stay put, but no in the new world of logistics we instead dumb the job down to the 2 numbskulls level, we issue lots of memos teaching grannies to ■■■■ eggs and stating the blindingly bloody obvious, cos numty can’t do the job right the middle managers all desperately justifying their jobs dumb the job down to numpty level, but the other 8 who do know their jobs have to abide by the new simple dumb thicko way of doing the job by the book.
Eventually you demoralise your good people by bringing it all down to lowest common denominator (or part of the race to the bottom ,whichever you prefer) so they start to ■■■■ off to pastures anew (which turn out to be managed by more idiots) and get replaced by more numpties.
Vehicles get damaged and those who do the damage just report it and go home, no repercussions, i’ve seen it at various places, don’t even have to sort it out or take it to the workshops to get it estimated, thats the responsibility of the regular driver who then ends up sodding about getting his gradually more wrecked lorry mended and costing him time, trying his best but fighting a losing battle to keep his issued vehicle in good nick which he hasn’t damaged at all…meanwhile old ‘couldn’t give a toss i’ll never be a lorry drive long as i’ve got a hole in me arse’ swans off home taking not one shred of responsibility, all thanks to ■■■■ poor management.
You can’t hit the numpties in the pocket for causing damage, but you can make them take responsibilty, so if doing some damage means they have an extra 6 hours on average extra work to do to sort it at least they might learn to sharpen up their skills.
However its not a perfect world and the race to the bottom continues form the top down, look at the numpties ruining the country and the rest of the continent, look at the alternative numpties who are equally useless, we have tpo elect the least worse of a rotten bunch, monkey see monkey do, it just snowballs down the line till we end up with idiots managing ever more disillusioned workers, and Britain weeps, goodnight.
You’re not wrong Juddian…
I think reducing the reliance on agencies would aid a great deal, as currently the poor quality drivers who don’t give a ■■■■ just continue to float around the pool, waiting for the next unsuspecting and unlucky employer. There are no references or checks made when an agency bod gets drafted in, normally at short notice. And who in their right mind would believe recommendation from most agencies? They mostly just want to get that bum on a seat and earning… So if we are entering a driver shortage, the options could be bleak for companies that continue to use agencies, as apparently the pond is shrinking and who are the ones likely to be left?
As for the damage the agency drivers do, the regular driver of the truck I drove today isn’t going to be happy when he sees it tomorrow! 
No it wasn’t me, it was the agency driver that had it Friday, and apparently that’s 3 accidents in a row from that agency. (again, not my agency!)
Pay peanuts - get monkies
Not needing a rear window in your cab (must be a British thing) to be able to reverse yohr wagon is not an accolade. Its part of your skills as a driver.
It never fails to amaze me when other ‘drivers’ in a car comment on my not undoing my seat belt, and twisting myself painfully around, to look backwards, when I reverse a car…
instead they panic, when I seemingly drive backwards, without looking where im going…
hahaha
Juddian:
robroy:
I didn’t think of that Juddian, we both remember when all sleeper cab motors had rear windows.
I think it was the MAN that started the trend of a complete blank at the back and sides of the cab.
It certainly made reversing a lot simpler especially if coupled to a flat trailer, it also helped to master the art if lacking experience.I was issued a twin steer Sed Ack 401 sleeper in 84 (some might say poor old you but it proved to be about the best working lorry i’ve had and that’s including the latest electronic junk), that came without rear windows so again following the trend, but my boss who was a wise stick asked me if i wanted one or two rear fitting or leave em be, so i had both done and they supplied really good insulating pads that sealed the windows well for nights out.
Mainly bulk tippers so used to do some really pokey farms and the like, it made the job miles easier and i’d have done some damage without them without a doubt.I asked at my place now about back windows, the damage rate is serious especially at night, ask about manual boxes to help with close work of which we do a lot on the tanks, no one’s in the least interested, oh well keep calm and carry on.
Well, I’m glad you prefer your SA 401 over my XF106 SuperspaceCab. We wont have to argue who drives what in the morning.
(And yes, I have had the honour of driving a 410)
there has always been drivers who cant reverse, daft little things make a difference switching from a twin steer to a 4 wheeler.
different trailers, being taught to pass a test which isn’t relevant as most of the time you wont do the type of reverse I was taught for my test.
we had a driver who is now back on class 2 who could drive forwards perfect but struggled with reversing (5+shunts as a min), we tried 3 different driver explaining how the set up for a reverse (this to me is why so many struggle), but he just couldn’t get his head round it. an experienced driver who is now back on class 2 as he hardly reversed in his old class 1 job.
Just reading about the window in the back of the cab. We have them and it was an extra 500 quid to spec it in our volvo fmx units.
Very handy as our loading bay has a tight blindside reverse and we do six loads a day on to it.
kr79:
Just reading about the window in the back of the cab. We have them and it was an extra 500 quid to spec it in our volvo fmx units.Very handy as our loading bay has a tight blindside reverse and we do six loads a day on to it.
Boss that knows his onions, one scrape saved and that £500 has paid for itself.
Especially as i’m one who will use any extra visibility advantage being a rather underperforming British driver of no accolades… 
referring to War’s post, what really flumoxed me was changing from lorry and drags to artics and vice versa, completely different animals and i’d always plump for the tight blind side with a wag/drag if i had a rear window in place.
Juddian:
kr79:
Just reading about the window in the back of the cab. We have them and it was an extra 500 quid to spec it in our volvo fmx units.Very handy as our loading bay has a tight blindside reverse and we do six loads a day on to it.
Boss that knows his onions, one scrape saved and that £500 has paid for itself.
Especially as i’m one who will use any extra visibility advantage being a rather underperforming British driver of no accolades…
referring to War’s post, what really flumoxed me was changing from lorry and drags to artics and vice versa, completely different animals and i’d always plump for the tight blind side with a wag/drag if i had a rear window in place.
I’m all for using all available visibility, but I find a rear window of limited use when reversing a wagon and drag…
the nodding donkey:
Juddian:
kr79:
Just reading about the window in the back of the cab. We have them and it was an extra 500 quid to spec it in our volvo fmx units.Very handy as our loading bay has a tight blindside reverse and we do six loads a day on to it.
Boss that knows his onions, one scrape saved and that £500 has paid for itself.
Especially as i’m one who will use any extra visibility advantage being a rather underperforming British driver of no accolades…
referring to War’s post, what really flumoxed me was changing from lorry and drags to artics and vice versa, completely different animals and i’d always plump for the tight blind side with a wag/drag if i had a rear window in place.
I’m all for using all available visibility, but I find a rear window of limited use when reversing a wagon and drag…
How come, with a wag and drag a really tight reverse you can have almost all the trailer in the space and you’re still maybe 6 ft from seeing where the trailer is due to the length and angle of the prime mover hence getting out and walking to the back of the PM to see where the trailer is, possibly two or three times, by blind siding in and looking through the window, you can see down the side of the trailer all the way till the mirrors take over.
S’ok i’m far from an expert just wondering why someone would rely on a convex mirror view in the dark and pouring rain when there is the possibility of seeing the line straight through a window.
Ah, see where you’re coming from now, all my wag and drag experience was on car transporters so able to look over and around the car immediately behind the cab, i did use an A frame box drawbar now and again in a previous life and that was a work of art to reverse, not as i was an artist at it you understand…
When you say windows at the back are you referring to windows in the back of the cab or windows behind the doors?
muckles:
When you say windows at the back are you referring to windows in the back of the cab or windows behind the doors?
In an ideal world for general fleet work (especially with vehicles that never or seldom do nights out) i think all l motors should have the opposite side to the driver’s rear side window in place and at least one centrally placed or again opposite to driver rear window in, this would cut a lot of reversing damage out IMO, assuming the driver wasn’t a trucker type and had curtains permanently pulled across every window.