Very worried, any advice please? (Tacho question)

I am really hoping that someone here can advise me on something that I am really, really worrying about. It’s a question about tachograph records.

I’ve only been driving a year. Fresh off my test, no experience, get a job in a small yard which repairs trailers. On a typical day I will shunt several trailers in the yard, deliver one or two back to customers, shunt a bit more in our yard again and then go home.

We have two trucks. One is a digi, the other analogue, We use the analogue one predominantly for shunting, although it does occasionally go out for a run when the digi is out. Sound okay so far?

For the past YEAR I have been shunting in our yard with no tacho in the analogue truck - and I have only been using my digi card when I’m on the road. I have recently found out that if you use the public highway at all during a working day, you must continue to use a tacho for the rest of the day…well I haven’t. I’ve been pulling the card when the digi truck is parked, jumping into the analogue one and shunting with no disc.

I have been making Other Work manual entries on my digi when I do get around to driving in that truck, and have been making manual entry working time breaks as well as driving breaks when necessary. If I do go out on the road in the analogue truck, I use paper discs and keep them safe.

I am worrying now because I am realising I could have a case on my hands…on my timesheet from which I am paid it clearly shows which trailers I have shunted with no discs for the analogue truck which moved them. And this has been going on for a year.

Why have I been doing this? Because I didn’t know any better. I thought, why would I need a disc on private land and waste driving time…sometimes I need every minute I can get my hands on!

The more unpleasant members of the forum will no doubt rip me to pieces for this but I honestly didn’t know I was doing anything wrong. I realise ignorance is no excuse and ‘well the boss said it was ok’ is also no excuse but that’s my story. The boss DID say shunting on private land is ok without a tacho and I believed him because I am an idiot. The management here is not interested in my questions, it is a small firm and they know nothing about the rules and regulations. It is up to me to keep everything legal and seek my own advice which it looks like I’ve cocked up.

Is there anyone here who really, truly knows what they are talking about in relation to my post? How much trouble am I in if VOSA stop me?

I have heard stories of court summons and prison sentences for fraud and false recordkeeping and I am genuinely worried.

You boss is right. You don’t need a to insert a tacho chart if you are only using the vehicle to shunt in the yard. You do need to make a manual entry on your digicard to record this activity, but if I’ve read it correctly you have been doing this.

So where’s the problem?

bloody hell mate calm down, the chances of anything coming of this are very very,no extrememly slim,
If its worrying you that much then from now on just put a card in when you drive the truck, take it out at the end of the day,

Allocate one truck to yourself.
Put card in when you start work, take out at the end of the day.
Job done!!!
:sunglasses: :sunglasses: :sunglasses:

I’d say your boss has more of a problem with the missing Milage

Have you deliberately tried to cover anything, ie pulled the card close to your max driving / spreadover time in an effort to hide anything? Probably not, so there goes the fraudulent side.

I wouldn’t panic too much, yes you should be recording the off road driving time as driving time in any day you are out on the road, but if anyone can clearly see that its down to lack of education, then that would have a good bearing on the outcome.

Don’t read other threads which don’t give full details of full situations and then automatically apply those to yourself, its a bit like doing internet self diagnosis, every symptom leads to death!

I spent 2yrs at a previous job shunting 30-50 lorries a night without even the licence for them on private land let alone worry about tacho’s :smiley:

zippy!:
Don’t read other threads which don’t give full details of full situations and then automatically apply those to yourself, its a bit like doing internet self diagnosis, every symptom leads to death!

+1

The job I do involves spending time working in a workshop and then some driving.
This is the advice VOSA gave me when I asked.

If you drive a vehicle under the scope of EU drivers hours regulations, everything to you do on that day needs to be recorded on a tachograph. Either by having the card in the tacho head during the day or by manual entry on a digi card or a written entry on a tacho card.

You already do this,

Also you need to record your start and finish times for the days between your last weekly rest period to the day you drove a truck on the road.

The Regulations say this should be by manual entry or on a on a tacho chart, but VOSA say they’ll accept a diary entry, or time sheet, or other form of record keeping.

You say you have a time sheet, just make sure you have it with you when on the road and it shows your start and finish times.

So I’d say you’d be ok, and I’m sure as you are trying to keep records the worst you’d get if it wasn’t acceptable would be advice.

muckles:
So I’d say you’d be ok, and I’m sure as you are trying to keep records the worst you’d get if it wasn’t acceptable would be advice.

+1, the OP is hardly likely to be bending over for Big Bubba on B Wing if VOSA pull him up for a tacho check because he’s shunted a couple of trailers 20 yards without a card in.

Stop worrying, you’re fine.

Sounds to me like you’ve been doing pretty much what you’re supposed to do, the time shunting needs to be recorded as other work either by writing the times on a chart/printout or manually entering them into a digital tachograph.
The only time you need to record the driving in the yard as driving is when you go out onto public roads in the same trip, say you pick up a trailer in the yard then take it onto the roads the time between picking it up and going onto the road is driving time, but it sounds like you’re recording that anyway.

Quite honestly, in your case I’d say the best way to record the shunting work is by doing manual entries either on charts or by manually putting the times into a digital tachograph as you have been.

Relax and enjoy what’s left of the weekend :wink:

From what you have said I believe you would be ok, if you were to get stopped. What you are doing is fine.

However, if your particularly worried about anything, on top of the manual entries in the digi tacho you can keep a diary. Detailing start times, breaks, other work and any driving time you do. This doesnt have to be a minute by minute account, though.

Something like:

Monday
Start 0700
O/W TIL 0730
SHUNTING TIL 0800
BREAK TIL 0815
SHUNTING TIL 0900
DELIVERED TRAILER TIL 1100 (RECORDED ON DIGI/ ANALOGUE TACHO)
BREAK TIL 1130
W/H WORK TIL 1600
SHUNTING TIL 1700
FINISHED 1700

From what I gather your basically doing this by manual entries anyway, except not being able to record the 10 mins here and there for the shunting work.

Relax man. You’re presuming what you THINK you’ve been doing wrong is falsifying. Even if you were failing to keep correct records thats a different level from deliberately falsifying. As an aside it sounds like you’ve been doing it right anyway.

People who falsify are very much aware what they’re doing.

from what you have posted it looks like you have been doing everything correctly, I can’t see any reason for you to be worrying. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: