Hi Everyone
Do I need a O licence if I drive for Hire and Reward using Van with GVW 3.5 ton and a trailer with GTW 2.6 ton?
Sure I have to install tachograph unit but do I need O licence?
Thanks
As of December 4th 2011, yes you do.
Rich_T:
As of December 4th 2011, yes you do.
What would be the best option to stay legally without need of O licence?
Don’t use the trailer.
dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/H … %20res.pdf - check out the flow chart on page 7
Thank you !
If it’s payload you’re after maximising I think you can get away without an o-licence if towing with a dual purpose vehicle ie 4x4 (rules are very unclear though and I think under VOSAs definition most Land Rovers etc don’t qualify). However, if you did run into them and they disagreed your 4x4 qualified as dual-purpose probably the only result would be just being told to get an o-licence.
Reason I say this is you can get 2.5ton on some 3.5ton trailers which is over a ton more than you’ll get in the back of most sprinter vans.
I think pdf link Rog gave early on shows diagram that explains when you need a O licence.
ROG:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Horsebox%20Guide%20low%20res.pdf - check out the flow chart on page 7
In that flow diagram simply exchange the word horse for the word goods
OP are you carrying other peoples goods or just goods you own ?
ROG:
In that flow diagram simply exchange the word horse for the word goodsOP are you carrying other peoples goods or just goods you own ?
Yes for hire & reward, like Dan Punchard suggest the only legal option to avoid having O licence is to get rid of the trailer.
Hire and reward refers to a commercial enterprise
That commercial enterprise could be moving your own goods or others goods - which is yours ?
Dont forget here that you can carry your own goods as in business use on a 3.5tonne and trailer with out even a restricted licence but a tacho is required ,however if you were to move the same payload on a vehicle like a 4,5,6 tonne gross you would need a license ,so loop holes do still exist .
Own Account Driver:
If it’s payload you’re after maximising I think you can get away without an o-licence if towing with a dual purpose vehicle ie 4x4 (rules are very unclear though and I think under VOSAs definition most Land Rovers etc don’t qualify). However, if you did run into them and they disagreed your 4x4 qualified as dual-purpose probably the only result would be just being told to get an o-licence.Reason I say this is you can get 2.5ton on some 3.5ton trailers which is over a ton more than you’ll get in the back of most sprinter vans.
Could you give some more detail on why you think this is a possibility, because it would be very useful to me if it were the case. Also, if a Land Rover doesn’t qualify what towing vehicle would (in particular would a LWB Isuzu Trooper qualify)?
dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/G … 0Guide.pdf
Check out section 1
Other exemptions from Operator Licensing
dual-purpose vehicles (e.g. Land Rovers)
and their trailers;
That means something like a family 4x4 with a towing capacity of 3500 towing a trailer which is 3500 MAM and is 1000 unladen and the trailer is loaded with 2500 kgs
Pendaric:
Own Account Driver:
If it’s payload you’re after maximising I think you can get away without an o-licence if towing with a dual purpose vehicle ie 4x4 (rules are very unclear though and I think under VOSAs definition most Land Rovers etc don’t qualify). However, if you did run into them and they disagreed your 4x4 qualified as dual-purpose probably the only result would be just being told to get an o-licence.Reason I say this is you can get 2.5ton on some 3.5ton trailers which is over a ton more than you’ll get in the back of most sprinter vans.
Could you give some more detail on why you think this is a possibility, because it would be very useful to me if it were the case. Also, if a Land Rover doesn’t qualify what towing vehicle would (in particular would a LWB Isuzu Trooper qualify)?
The problem is the dual-purpose definition stems from construction and use regulations from 1986 and vehicles have got much heavier. Basically you need a 4x4 that is less than 2040 kgs unladen.
Most decent spec Land Rover Discovery and other 4x4 with a 3.5t tow capacity will weigh well over this off the shelf but obviously there may be room to chop weight down sufficiently by not having heavy options like electric seats but I don’t know for sure if it can be done. I think it would probably be very hard for VOSA to establish the unladen weight is anything other than what you tell them at a roadside pull.
You mentioned Isuzu and actually there is the option of an Isuzu pickup it doesn’t have the same ride comfort but does have a lot to recommend it. Most jap pick-ups have poor tow capacities but the Isuzu will do 3T. You may think that’s losing 500kg but in reality there’s also a 1 ton, very practical, additional payload capacity in the back of the truck itself, you would obviously want to be a bit careful with axle weights. The truck weighs just under 2t unladen and add 1t for the trailer, it’s got a GTW of about 6t so by my reckoning you’ve got a whopping 3T (2 x Sprinter vans) of payload you can legally spread across the combination without needing an o-licence and staying legal on weights.
Obviously you’ll need a tacho but an upside with the Isuzu is the newer ones come prepped for digital tacho and Isuzu have a deal with a VDO to supply head units. If I went for the Isuzu pick-up myself, in future (got, expensive in parts and maintenance, Discos at the moment but got o-licence in any case so don’t need exemption) I would probably put air suspension on the rear axle.
Cheers. I use the Trooper to pull a trailer transporting cars, so spreading the weight isn’t really an option. The Trooper is good because it can pull 3.5 ton, so after taking a ton off for the trailer it leaves you with enough allowance to cover 99% of the cars out there.
A Trooper has an unladen weight of 2080kg, so 40kg over, but I do take the back seats out so I can set up a mattress and sleeping bag arrangement and I reckon that takes care of that - that’s my story and I’m sticking to it anyway! As said, I think it would be hard for VOSA to establish what is unladen weight and what is equipment, because I carry a fair bit of tools.
This dual allowance thing is really good for me, because to be honest I was buggering on just expecting to be pulled and taken off the road. It’s a relief to know I actually am in order.
Pendaric:
Cheers. I use the Trooper to pull a trailer transporting cars, so spreading the weight isn’t really an option. The Trooper is good because it can pull 3.5 ton, so after taking a ton off for the trailer it leaves you with enough allowance to cover 99% of the cars out there.A Trooper has an unladen weight of 2080kg, so 40kg over, but I do take the back seats out so I can set up a mattress and sleeping bag arrangement and I reckon that takes care of that - that’s my story and I’m sticking to it anyway! As said, I think it would be hard for VOSA to establish what is unladen weight and what is equipment, because I carry a fair bit of tools.
This dual allowance thing is really good for me, because to be honest I was buggering on just expecting to be pulled and taken off the road. It’s a relief to know I actually am in order.
If you remove the seats then it is not a dual purpose vehicle anymore
Own Account Driver:
The problem is the dual-purpose definition stems from construction and use regulations from 1986 and vehicles have got much heavier. Basically you need a 4x4 that is less than 2040 kgs unladen.
Why is that not mentioned in the VOSA info ?
Could it be possible that for O licences that definition does not apply?
ROG:
Own Account Driver:
The problem is the dual-purpose definition stems from construction and use regulations from 1986 and vehicles have got much heavier. Basically you need a 4x4 that is less than 2040 kgs unladen.Why is that not mentioned in the VOSA info ?
Could it be possible that for O licences that definition does not apply?
I’ve done a bit of digging since.
It’s not mentioned in the Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing Guide for Operators, which just talk about Land Rovers and Jeeps without mentioning weights, but it is specified in the guidance note ‘Changes to operator licensing rules for vehicles under 3.5 tonnes towing small trailers’, where it says ‘The dual purpose category generally includes cars, estates, pickups (with a second row of seats (crew cab) only), and domestic 4x4 vehicles such as Land Rovers, Jeeps and other similar vehicles below 2040kgs unladen weight.’
ROG:
Pendaric:
Cheers. I use the Trooper to pull a trailer transporting cars, so spreading the weight isn’t really an option. The Trooper is good because it can pull 3.5 ton, so after taking a ton off for the trailer it leaves you with enough allowance to cover 99% of the cars out there.A Trooper has an unladen weight of 2080kg, so 40kg over, but I do take the back seats out so I can set up a mattress and sleeping bag arrangement and I reckon that takes care of that - that’s my story and I’m sticking to it anyway! As said, I think it would be hard for VOSA to establish what is unladen weight and what is equipment, because I carry a fair bit of tools.
This dual allowance thing is really good for me, because to be honest I was buggering on just expecting to be pulled and taken off the road. It’s a relief to know I actually am in order.
If you remove the seats then it is not a dual purpose vehicle anymore
Dunno - I’m still leaving the single rear seat in and just taking the double one out, so there is still a rear seat there. And with a mattress and sleeping bag it’s now suitable for camping and is essentially just a different accommodation arrangement, but one that takes the unladen weight just within scope (he hopes).
Anyway, I doubt that a VOSA guy would go that in depth in to it - pretty sure that as long as the tacho is ok they’ll just view it as dual purpose and not ask the question. Whatever, I feel a lot more comfortable about my situation than I did yesterday.