Using vehicle to commute to work

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Ok folks, a quick question for you:
On occasion I get asked to do a late delivery to a town which is closer to my home than to the depot I work from. I am quite happy to then go home after this (with the bosses approval).
This means I need to drive the vehicle to work in the morning. Any time I have done this in the past I have always stuck in the digicard, now I am not getting paid for the time to drive in to work, and it means I am a bit limited in when I can then work up til that evening.
So, should I be leaving the card out until I get into work and clock on, or must I insert card before doing any driving of the vehicle?

Cheers!

Ginger :sunglasses:

2

Card must be in when driving, paid or not.
All the driving hours count towards the daily/weekly driving time.

re - keeping vehicle at home on regular basis - need an expert on this - not me :slight_smile:

3

personally i would like to say that you could leave the card out until you get to work as you aint getting paid but…

legally you have to have the card in as you are driving a wagon and you are in possesion of your card. if you get stopped without your card in you would get hammered.

have a word with the boss and come to some sort of compromise about it. he either pays from the time you set off in the morning or you dont do the delivery on the way home, you do the delivery then drive back to the yard then clock off and go home! easy if you ask me!

4

cheers for the replies folks. I’m quite happy to not have to drive all the way back to the yard when the journey goes right past where I live! And it saves me about an hour’s combined travelling, my fuel etc - so not going to be asking the boss to pay me for the time spent driving to work in the morning, that would be cheeky!

Ginger

5

Gingerpose:
Ok folks, a quick question for you:

Hi Gingerpose, I can see several questions here mate…:grimacing:
:open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing: Does your TM realise that he’s become legendary on here, cos we’re doing his job for him.? :laughing: :laughing:

Gingerpose:
On occasion I get asked to do a late delivery to a town which is closer to my home than to the depot I work from. I am quite happy to then go home after this (with the bosses approval).

That approval might not be his to give…
I’d suggest that your TM looks at the ‘O’ licence to see where the “operating center” is, and how ‘operating center’ is defined. :wink:
Then he can choose what he thinks is right.
Many TMs have been hauled before the Traffic Commissioners to explain why an unauthorised operating center is in use, as a read of the trucking press can confirm.

Gingerpose:
This means I need to drive the vehicle to work in the morning. Any time I have done this in the past I have always stuck in the digicard, now I am not getting paid for the time to drive in to work, and it means I am a bit limited in when I can then work up til that evening.

You’re spot-on about the digi-card there mate, but whether you’re paid for the ‘commute’ is an employment question relating to pay and conditions, so you and your boss can agree amongst yourselves about whether your commute is paid or not.

I’d suggest that the time spent driving a vehicle to which the Tacho Regs apply on your commute is to be calculated as ‘driving time’ though, even if you’re not paid for it.

That raises a question about the insurance for the vehicle. Does the insurance cover still operate at the place you actually park the vehicle for the night? What would be the outcome for your firm if the vehicle was damaged, say by an attempt at stealing it, or if clipped by a vehicle that didn’t stop?
The next question is about whether you leave parking lights illuminated, if you leave it on a road. Many drivers have been reported by the police for this as a trawl through these forums can confirm.

Gingerpose:
So, should I be leaving the card out until I get into work and clock on, or must I insert card before doing any driving of the vehicle?

If you were to leave the digi-card out of the machine for your commute, your firm would end up with what the TCs call “missing mileage,” and they really don’t like that, because it leads them to think that somebody is fiddling their hours. (Which would be true in your case.)

WADR Gingerpose, your TM really ought think carefully about everything before he gives something his blessing, because it could come back on the firm itself rather than just you and him. :wink:

6

Ah I love the way a question leads to a question here :laughing: . As regards the operating centre, is that likely to be an issue as this only happens once every other month? When I do have the vehicle it is parked in an off street car park of the local council operated leisure centre, so not on a through road. Also, as we do regular deliveries to one destination where we park in a hotel car park and have an overnight stay, how does that affect the operating centre question and the insurance?

7

Gingerpose:
Ah I love the way a question leads to a question here :laughing: .

Hi Gingerpose, That’s the nature of transport Regs I’m afraid mate. :wink:
You’ll find that one question very often has different answers, depending on the exact circumstances.

As an example, there are some questions that you might ask about drivers’ hours, which would need the person trying to help you to ask what hours you’d worked during the last fortnight before they could give you an accurate answer.

Gingerpose:
As regards the operating centre, is that likely to be an issue as this only happens once every other month?

Errr… please check your question mate; you hadn’t indicated the frequency, which is actually crucial to the answer, so I gave a general answer.

Gingerpose:
When I do have the vehicle it is parked in an off street car park of the local council operated leisure centre, so not on a through road.

Again Gingerpose, if you check your question there was no mention of “off street,” so my answer was designed to get you to consider if the vehicle was parked ‘on-street.’
You see, the need to leave the sidelights illuminated depends upon this and the size of the vehicle. That was my reason for saying (above) if you leave it on a road.

Gingerpose:
Also, as we do regular deliveries to one destination where we park in a hotel car park and have an overnight stay, how does that affect the operating centre question and the insurance?

I wouldn’t think that would affect the operating center issue. As regards the insurance of commercial vehicles, there are sometimes discounts offered, for instance, if the owner gives an undertaking that the vehicle is always in a locked compound at night. If your firm doesn’t do ‘nights out’ that might have applied, then there’d be a problem if the vehicle suffered an attempted theft, or was clipped by a car that failed to stop, because the insurance might then be inoperative. Again, this wasn’t made clear in your O/P and as usual I tried to offer food for thought.

However, in this post, you’ve told us that “we do regular deliveries to one destination where we park in a hotel car park and have an overnight stay,” so I’d imagine the vehicle is covered for risks outside of the depot and outside of normal working hours. As you might know, insurers will try anything to wriggle out of paying a claim, so it’s best to know exactly what the policy covers, whilst realising that commercial vehicle insurance is more complex than insurance for ordinary cars.

8

Gingerpose:
Ah I love the way a question leads to a question here :laughing: .

Yes but the other questions don’t actually concern you at all. The simple answer to your original question is that you need your card in for the drive to work and the time taken will count towards driving time / duty time / working time etc. even though you are not being paid for it.

The other questions dieseldave raises are not your problem. If your TM says you can do it then if it turns out there is no insurance or VOSA get upset about you parking somewhere other than your designated operating centre then that’s the TMs problem and not yours. Don’t worry about it.

Paul

9

Once again many thanks for your replies. I’m back in work today later for the trip to that distant hotel, so I will raise those questions with the men in charge.
Cheers!

Ginger :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :sunglasses: :laughing:

10

it saves me about an hour’s combined travelling

I understand from that you mean half an hour each way.

Surely, to lose half an hour off your driving time isn’t that much of a problem? The savings for you (petrol and time) and your boss (half an hour’s wages) make it worthwhile

11

repton:

Gingerpose:
Ah I love the way a question leads to a question here :laughing: .

Yes but the other questions don’t actually concern you at all. The simple answer to your original question is that you need your card in for the drive to work and the time taken will count towards driving time / duty time / working time etc. even though you are not being paid for it.

Whilst we all seem to agree that the answer to the original question is as you said, I felt it raised some other issues, given the previous tale about Gingerpose’s TM in :arrow_right: this topic
Then there’s also :arrow_right: this other topic

repton:
The other questions dieseldave raises are not your problem. If your TM says you can do it then if it turns out there is no insurance or VOSA get upset about you parking somewhere other than your designated operating centre then that’s the TMs problem and not yours. Don’t worry about it.

Whilst your comments about the operating center and the insurance are also perfectly true, it seemed pertinent to point out those issues for the TM’s benefit. I do hope that what I wrote wasn’t taken to be Gingerpose’s responsibility, because I agree that it is not.

However, until the question of whether the parking was ‘on’ or ‘off’ street was cleared up, hence my use of the word “IF,” wouldn’t you say that it is the driver’s reponsibility, rather than the TM’s, to illuminate the lights IF the parking was on-street.? Given the TM’s grasp of GVW (and his boss’ reaction) in the first topic, I’d say almost anything is possible. :grimacing:

My motivation for giving Gingerpose the detailed answers, along with questions attempting clarification, was to keep Gingerpose’s name out of a police/VOSA person’s notebook at the part where it says “driver’s name,” because it can be quite a worrying time for a driver (and their family) whilst the necessary enquiries are made.
Thinking about stable doors and horses, surely it’s better for a person not have had their name put in the book in the first place? :wink:

12

Thinking about stable doors and horses, surely it’s better for a person not have had their name put in the book in the first place?

Exactly, which is why I keep coming back here to have the questions answered and save me from having my name in little black books (unless I choose to, depending on whose book :sunglasses: )

13

Gingerpose:
Exactly, which is why I keep coming back here to have the questions answered and save me from having my name in little black books (unless I choose to, depending on whose book :sunglasses: )

Hi Gingerpose, You’re more than welcome mate. :smiley:

IMHO, it’s good tactics to be ‘risk aware,’ and ask the question; What if…?
The world of transport has many Regulations which appear to come from different directions and looking at different things from different angles. This can sometimes be very confusing for everybody involved, but there is always the opportunity to learn sometihing new.

I’ve been in the transport industry since 1976, and I’m still learning. :grimacing: