Urgent Help - from those involved in Abnormal Loads movement

[constantine]

Dear all,

Anyone out there who can give me a little bit of advice with regards to a movement order that has a fundamental flaw in the route.

Usually we’re pretty hot with our movement orders and routes, but this one has slipped through the net and I have only literally just received it by email as well, as everyone has been out of the yard/office since Thursday.

Bit worried the Abloads dudes in the police haven’t picked up on it either, as it went in last Tuesday and we’re supposed to be doing the movement early Monday morning. I’m supposedly told we have dispensation in East Anglia (with the relevant police forces: Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk, Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire) for what me move but we still put a movement order in every time for a route.

The route sends us on a section of dual carriageway that has a width restriction on it for 15 miles due to roadworks, from the junction where I am supposed to join on. Beginning of previous week they put up big circular prohibited width signs of 2.9m or 9’ 6" to the end of the dual carriageway to join another section of dual carriageway to carry on with the rest of our journey.

Not sure why the width restriction is in place during the day as it doesn’t appear necessary. No narrow lanes only the silly vertical poles for a 2 mile section at the end of the 15 mile stretch. Even then that section the lanes are the typical lane width before the roadworks started.

But I’ve been involved in roadworks in my previous life, so I know they aren’t put in for fun, so there is a reason at some point and the signs are there to forewarn me not to go down there any wider than that! Knowing my luck if I “winged” it that’d be the day an obstruction would genuinely prevent me from passing and then I’ll be in a whole world of ■■■■!

Stupidly I discussed it with other plant/low loader drivers in the area as a warning that it had been put in place in case they had to submit movement orders , but forgot to inform/remind the office this route will be out of bounds to us for a while with certain bits of plant.

On Monday I’m going to be 3.3m wide with a 4.0m rear overhang and weighing in at 43t. Hence I can’t use that section of road…

Where do I go from here with work and obviously the route that I can take on Monday (if possible) as this plant is urgently required to swap over with a failing piece of plant that needs to come home for repair.

Hoping someone with a decent knowledge in the abnormal loads movements paperwork/driving can advise as I am still only a novice at this in real terms to a lot of guys who post on here who maybe involved in it.

As I’m goign to have to broach it with the MD tomorrow, don’t want to appear a nay sayer but you can’t always push your luck and carry on regardless

Ps. Am I right in thinking Rikki is heavily involved in this part of industry.

Thanks in advance to anyone who has sensible advice or has been in this position themselves and can advise the outcome.

Constantine

[nick2008]

As far as I know you cant do squat as any movement deviation has to be re sent and agreed by all party’s involved. think it has to be done by the office and cant be changed by you the driver …
Looks like your gonna have to get someone from the office to sort it , or just go on the agreed route… sometimes the route although having restrictions in place will be ok’d for your passage…

[constantine]

Dear Nick2008,

Thank you so much for that message. I didn’t think I could deviate in reality, (wishful thinking) going by some of the routes “planned” (e.g stupid “weak” bridges - those that are unmarked that normal HGV’s can use, but can’t handle anything above 44t yet are on main A roads). Otherwise what would be the point of submitting a route and movement order to anyone…

Yep gonna have to disturb people in the early morning today to clarify what the upshot is ain’t I. God I hate being the new boy and raising queries I always feel I’m an annoyance yet no-one has said anything to the few things I have clarified to be fair. I just like to get on and do.

Thanks for that last bit of info, I didn’t realise they can give you exceptions to use restricted routes…

See, told you I was a novice This will go in the memory bank and gonna try and get hold of these routes a bit sooner to prevent a potential rush/screw up that may happen Monday morning!

Thanks again bud

At least you’ve confirmed my initial suspicions that it will either be a go or no and no grey areas that could put me in a predicament!

C

[chester]

This issue is way above your pay scale, just head up the problem with your traffic office. Folk work in offices to sort these issues out.
You have no movement order! You can’t move.

I found myself in a predicament a couple week ago, we had various STGO loads attempting to get on the M40 from the A43
As they had been some sort of truck explosion around Cherwell Valley services,our trucks were out of gauge to follow the official diversion which had been in place at Least 24hrs before we had reached that location. The official diversion had a low bridge around Bicester
I had to get all loads to pull up in lay-bys and try my best between the Highways Agency and the Police to come to a conclusion.
As it was a Sunday you can expect not many folk were inwork,well at least the people I needed to speak with anyway.
I myself conducted a recce around Bicester which was a lot better than the official diversion in any case. I eventually managed to relay my intended route to the Police who than agreed I could then take the trucks through the route I was proposing.

Any phone numbers you need feel free to PM me

Edit, spend time now finding a route you can take and propose that to the office,police or HA.

[chester]

You say in your original post You supposedly have dispensations with your local police authority’s

Please I beg you to post a pic, photocopy or anything of this dispensation?
Or is it just what somebody says in the office?

Stobarts and DHL have told me similar things, yet when I’ve rang DVSA they say different.
DVSA/VOSA have never given any company a dispensation for anything, they told me that to my face. When we had a meeting with them.
I can’t vouch for the Police in your area, but I reckon your boss is talking codswallop.

[stagedriver]

I used to run my own ab load ■■■■■■ business.

In short you can’t deviate without police authority. Call your starting area and the area affected by the roadworks and speak with a traffic sgt/insp if you can’t get hold of the ab load officer.

[constantine]

Hey Chester,

Thank you so much for supplying another decent response like Nick above.

We’re only a small family outfit with 6 lorries, so you can imagine in reality we only have 2 people in the office at best!

So let me clarify the movement order is now invalid, regardless due to me knowing there is a width restriction designated by the roadworks width prohibition sign?

I may PM you a litter later after I’ve spoken with the head honcho this morning.

Already on it Marine , looking at a potentially suitable route right now, trouble is I don’t know if there is any infrastructure restrictions on the more rural route that is the only other viable “A road” route to get me back on the “other agreed movement order A roads” that will get me into Norfolk and on my way again

Thank you so much for the advice Chester.

C

[constantine]

chester:
You say in your original post You supposedly have dispensations with your local police authority’s

Please I beg you to post a pic, photocopy or anything of this dispensation?
Or is it just what somebody says in the office?

Stobarts and DHL have told me similar things, yet when I’ve rang DVSA they say different.
DVSA/VOSA have never given any company’s dispensation, they told me that to my face. When we had a meeting with them.
I can’t vouch for the Police in your area, but I reckon your boss is talking codswallop.

Been told by two different bosses in two different companies about dispensations because its our own plant/agricultural machinery we’re restricted o licence holders as in we only move our own gear.

Never seen proof of this “dispensation” so always asked for movement orders before I moved…take it that’s the right thing to do and I thought I was having the wool pulled over my eyes on this all the time too but couldn’t prove it…

C

[chester]

No probs mate. Movement orders can be amended at anytime as long as you inform the relevant authority’s. The hardest thing is actully getting a human voice to speak with, as it’s a Sunday be prepared for a shed load of phonecalls.

You’ve a full day tomorrow to sort it, I can’t see it being a issue.
You say your new to the gameI I must praise you on your Conciseness and diligence to the task in hand.

[own_account_driver]

chester:
You say in your original post You supposedly have dispensations with your local police authority’s

Please I beg you to post a pic, photocopy or anything of this dispensation?
Or is it just what somebody says in the office?

Stobarts and DHL have told me similar things, yet when I’ve rang DVSA they say different.
DVSA/VOSA have never given any company a dispensation for anything, they told me that to my face. When we had a meeting with them.
I can’t vouch for the Police in your area, but I reckon your boss is talking codswallop.

Ab loads is Police not VOSA. You can have dispensation not to continuously notify police for loads ordinarily requiring movement orders if it’s a regular run on a set route. ie moving plant from quarry to workshop every month for sevicing etc.

[constantine]

stagedriver:
I used to run my own ab load ■■■■■■ business.

In short you can’t deviate without police authority. Call your starting area and the area affected by the roadworks and speak with a traffic sgt/insp if you can’t get hold of the ab load officer.

My starting area is Essex, and my width restriction is 6 miles down the road in Essex!!!

Think I am going to stick with Chester’s advice and not leave the yard Monday morning until fully and legally clairified with boss this morning.

As if I leave the yard, get to width restriction and then ask for permission to deviate with a traffic sergeant/inspector at 0300 in the morning I may literally be ■■■■■■…especially as there will be nowhere safe to park/hold up awaiting permission to granted/denied and that junction is bloody busy from 0500 onwards…I’ll cause carnage, the one thing I was originally trying to avoid hence this posting.

Might be a bit different, in the case like Chester said something happened on route, then bit more reasonable to get clarification and deviate. But I already know the restriction has been in place a while now and knew that before I left yard with a movement order that is technically worthless to me and other road users in truth!

C

[constantine]

Own Account Driver:

chester:
You say in your original post You supposedly have dispensations with your local police authority’s

Please I beg you to post a pic, photocopy or anything of this dispensation?
Or is it just what somebody says in the office?

Stobarts and DHL have told me similar things, yet when I’ve rang DVSA they say different.
DVSA/VOSA have never given any company a dispensation for anything, they told me that to my face. When we had a meeting with them.
I can’t vouch for the Police in your area, but I reckon your boss is talking codswallop.

Ab loads is Police not VOSA. You can have dispensation not to continuously notify police for loads ordinarily requiring movement orders if it’s a regular run on a set route. ie moving plant from quarry to workshop every month for sevicing etc.

They try to use it between loads of different sites not the same site and yard like you say for servicing, hence I never bought it as actually being true. But you’ve confirmed it now they’re not regular runs on set routes…

Always thought I was having wool pulled over my eyes, you’ve confirmed my gut feelings were right. Thanks Own Account Driver.

C

[own_account_driver]

Constantine:
Hey Chester,

Thank you so much for supplying another decent response like Nick above.

We’re only a small family outfit with 6 lorries, so you can imagine in reality we only have 2 people in the office at best!

So let me clarify the movement order is now invalid, regardless due to me knowing there is a width restriction designated by the roadworks width prohibition sign?

I may PM you a litter later after I’ve spoken with the head honcho this morning.

Already on it Marine , looking at a potentially suitable route right now, trouble is I don’t know if there is any infrastructure restrictions on the more rural route that is the only other viable “A road” route to get me back on the “other agreed movement order A roads” that will get me into Norfolk and on my way again

Thank you so much for the advice Chester.

C

If a route was submitted for a set day to obtain a movement order from the relevant police authority liability really rests with the police’s abnormal load officer that issued it as it is their remit to be aware of roadwork activities in advance as far as I was aware. If you submit a route through a nimby weight limit, because you can’t make a turn, it’s up to the police to yay or nay as I understand it.

Also if one bit of the route is tight you can get a police ■■■■■■ for that bit, if they feel you need it, without being charged.

Are you sure that the route is not been undertaken on a Sunday for the very reason it means it’s then possible to negotiate these roadworks?

Bottom line is you are better arse covered in a width restriction with a movement order in force than you are deviating from the agreed route.

[constantine]

chester:
You say your new to the gameI I must praise you on your Conciseness and diligence to the task in hand.

Hey Chester,

No point not being consciencous or diligent with this type of work, i’ve taken a lot of interest in it and tried to do the right thing from the start, whilst not complaining and just getting the job done. If its silly things try to resolve it myself, get it sorted ASAP and get on without disturbing the office etc with minor ■■■■■■■■.

If its major things like this, then you got to take it seriously and need others help including others outside the company!

As if it was to ■■■■ up on route and I wasn’t doing something I was supposed to do and something went wrong, even if it weren’t my fault (e.g. a car drives into the rear of me and they’re injured or worse…) who’s going to be left holding the soap in the court dock…

Only going to be me, noone else. We sent him the movement order, yet he knew there was a problem your honour. He didn’t inform us and carried on regardless knowing there was a problem, we can’t be held responsible for his illegal actions and decisions your honour!

Only going to be me ain’t it in reality a few drivers out there/on here think they don’t have a responsibility to anything or anyone in the world, whereas the majority of us understand that’s not the actual case!

My Dad, always drummed into me, no matter what you think boy, you will always be held accountable and then possibly responsible for any incident whilst driving regardless of whether you think that is the correct course of action or not. So make sure you are doing everything correctly and bloody efficiently and not wasting anyone’s time, get it done, but get it done right first time everytime!

You’re the 3rd person to tell me that this week, never thought I was doing anything special just my job, trying to keep me and my company out of any possible trouble that could have the authorities sniffing around us!

Luckily this is my 10th month in (abnormal loads) job and learning everyday. Fortunately I’ll say this the plant/abnormal loads gentlemen are some of the most helpful and friendliest people out there on the road I’ve ever met compared to other sectors of our industry. Loads of random low loader drivers wave at you on the road wherever you are/all over the country though never met them before.

If you ask a question, you never get short/snidey answers, alway willing to help and advise you if you’re unsure, hopefully I can return the favour some day to others coming in behind me in years to come. Glad I chose this part of the industry to be in to be honest, it still feels a little bit old school

Hope I can continue to hold my licence and flourish in it for years to come! Don’t know everything and never will

C

[chester]

Own Account Driver:

chester:
You say in your original post You supposedly have dispensations with your local police authority’s

Please I beg you to post a pic, photocopy or anything of this dispensation?
Or is it just what somebody says in the office?

Stobarts and DHL have told me similar things, yet when I’ve rang DVSA they say different.
DVSA/VOSA have never given any company a dispensation for anything, they told me that to my face. When we had a meeting with them.
I can’t vouch for the Police in your area, but I reckon your boss is talking codswallop.

Ab loads is Police not VOSA. You can have dispensation not to continuously notify police for loads ordinarily requiring movement orders if it’s a regular run on a set route. ie moving plant from quarry to workshop every month for sevicing etc.

Yes Iam fully aware it’s a Police issue. I was giving examples of when company’s tell drivers they have dispensation when they clearly haven’t .
Hence why I wrote at the end of the post this I CANT VOUCH FOR POLICE IN YOUR AREA.
Why are you getting involved and taking a thread off track?

A load through Essex Suffolk Norfolk and Cambridge surely isn’t routine maintenance is it?

[own_account_driver]

Constantine:

Own Account Driver:

chester:
You say in your original post You supposedly have dispensations with your local police authority’s

Please I beg you to post a pic, photocopy or anything of this dispensation?
Or is it just what somebody says in the office?

Stobarts and DHL have told me similar things, yet when I’ve rang DVSA they say different.
DVSA/VOSA have never given any company a dispensation for anything, they told me that to my face. When we had a meeting with them.
I can’t vouch for the Police in your area, but I reckon your boss is talking codswallop.

Ab loads is Police not VOSA. You can have dispensation not to continuously notify police for loads ordinarily requiring movement orders if it’s a regular run on a set route. ie moving plant from quarry to workshop every month for sevicing etc.

They try to use it between loads of different sites not the same site and yard like you say for servicing, hence I never bought it as actually being true. But you’ve confirmed it now they’re not regular runs on set routes…

Always thought I was having wool pulled over my eyes, you’ve confirmed my gut feelings were right. Thanks Own Account Driver.

C

You may not be portakabin movers, and the like, can have letters of dispensation from Police provided they stick to A roads. Obviously it saves resources for the police. Although usually I would think the driver ought to be carrying a copy.

[own_account_driver]

chester:

Own Account Driver:

chester:
You say in your original post You supposedly have dispensations with your local police authority’s

Please I beg you to post a pic, photocopy or anything of this dispensation?
Or is it just what somebody says in the office?

Stobarts and DHL have told me similar things, yet when I’ve rang DVSA they say different.
DVSA/VOSA have never given any company a dispensation for anything, they told me that to my face. When we had a meeting with them.
I can’t vouch for the Police in your area, but I reckon your boss is talking codswallop.

Ab loads is Police not VOSA. You can have dispensation not to continuously notify police for loads ordinarily requiring movement orders if it’s a regular run on a set route. ie moving plant from quarry to workshop every month for sevicing etc.

Yes Iam fully aware it’s a Police issue. I was giving examples of when company’s tell drivers they have dispensation when they clearly haven’t .
Hence why I wrote at the end of the post this I CANT VOUCH FOR POLICE IN YOUR AREA.
Why are you getting involved and taking a thread off track?

Here you go, here’s an example (I was right though that the driver should have a copy but it could be emailed quickly these days if need be)

EXAMPLE: GENERAL DISPENSATION
THE ROAD VEHICLES (CONSTRUCTION & USE) REGULATIONS 1986
Your application to dispense with the legally required ‘TWO CLEAR DAYS’
notice for movement of abnormal loads through policing area is approved,
subject to the following conditions: -
The loads do not exceed 3.5 metres in width, and all other dimensions
conform to the Constructions and Use Regulations.
ONLY ROADS SPECIFIED AT NO. 5 BELOW MAY BE USED. Any deviation
from the approved routes MUST BE NOTIFIED SEPARATELY, as required
under the Construction and Use Regulations.
This Dispensation is granted on the understanding that it relates only to
vehicles operated by the named company on that company’s business and
does not include sub-contractors. All other movements must be notified, as
required under Construction and Use Regulations.
The driver MUST carry a copy of the Dispensation.
Routes Approved: -e.g.: specific motorways, major trunk roads/ dual
carriageways.
Other roads as individually permitted
Movements during the hours of darkness are only permitted on motorways.
This Dispensation expires on the 31st December ----
The Chief Constable / Chief Officer reserves the right to withdraw this
Dispensation, at any time.
For the Chief Constable / Chief Officer

Also not true about VOSA/DVSA, unless technically, as TCs can issue dispensation letters.

[constantine]

Own Account Driver:
Are you sure that the route is not been undertaken on a Sunday for the very reason it means it’s then possible to negotiate these roadworks?

Bottom line is you are better arse covered in a width restriction with a movement order in force than you are deviating from the agreed route

We’re moving Monday morning at around 0300, so not sure what the reason is yet or if anyone knows there is a potential problem yet.

All I know is that I have a designated width restriction in place on the route we’ve said we’ll be travelling on which I am technically too wide for according to the signs. But not for the road conditions on Friday in my opinion when I last travelled through empty.

However the law doesn’t care for my opinion so I have to believe being at 3.3m wide I can’t fit down the dual carriageway which is telling me I can’t be over 2.9m. There are no magic yellow boards saying stop at next layby and call this mobile telephone number for ■■■■■■ etc. Just huge red circular prohibition width signs at the junction I’ll be joining on to start on the dual carriageway.

Just needed some decent advice off here, on best course of action before I get final clarification of likely truthful answer from the office…as we know sometimes people can be unscrupulous because of deadlines. And if it was to go wrong or I get pulled I wanna make sure I did everything in my power to do it safe and right while I still have time to potentially rectify the problem today.

C

[own_account_driver]

Constantine:

Own Account Driver:
Are you sure that the route is not been undertaken on a Sunday for the very reason it means it’s then possible to negotiate these roadworks?

Bottom line is you are better arse covered in a width restriction with a movement order in force than you are deviating from the agreed route

We’re moving Monday morning at around 0300, so not sure what the reason is yet or if anyone knows there is a potential problem yet.

All I know is that I have a designated width restriction in place on the route we’ve said we’ll be travelling on which I am technically too wide for according to the signs. But not for the road conditions on Friday in my opinion when I last travelled through empty.

However the law doesn’t care for my opinion so I have to believe being at 3.3m wide I can’t fit down the dual carriageway which is telling me I can’t be over 2.9m. There are no magic yellow boards saying stop at next layby and call this mobile telephone number for ■■■■■■ etc. Just huge red circular prohibition width signs at the junction I’ll be joining on to start on the dual carriageway.

Just needed some decent advice off here, on best course of action before I get final clarification of likely truthful answer from the office…as we know sometimes people can be unscrupulous because of deadlines. And if it was to go wrong or I get pulled I wanna make sure I did everything in my power to do it safe and right while I still have time to potentially rectify the problem today.

C

It makes it pretty clear here that the police bear responsibility for approving routes. Most abnormal loads are too wide, long or heavy for the roads they are taking that’s why they have to notify the police of their intended route and it’s up to their abnormal loads officer to yay or nay it.

ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES
The Abnormal Loads Officer:
• should have in-depth knowledge of the legislation relating to the movement of
Abnormal Loads
• should have a good working knowledge of their own Police Force’s road and also
the surrounding networks;
• should be able to visit locations or survey routes of proposed movements if
required;
• should risk assess every proposed movement; Abnormal Loads – National Guidelines

8
• should co-ordinate requests for escorting loads through the County with the
appropriate line manager or supervisor.
• Should actively participate and advise in future roadwork’s planning and
consultations;
• Should maintain records and information of roadworks or events that may interfere
with abnormal load movement.

[constantine]

Own Account Driver:
Here you go, here’s an example (I was right though that the driver should have a copy but it could be emailed quickly these days if need be)

EXAMPLE: GENERAL DISPENSATION
THE ROAD VEHICLES (CONSTRUCTION & USE) REGULATIONS 1986
Your application to dispense with the legally required ‘TWO CLEAR DAYS’
notice for movement of abnormal loads through policing area is approved,
subject to the following conditions: -
The loads do not exceed 3.5 metres in width, and all other dimensions
conform to the Constructions and Use Regulations.
ONLY ROADS SPECIFIED AT NO. 5 BELOW MAY BE USED. Any deviation
from the approved routes MUST BE NOTIFIED SEPARATELY, as required
under the Construction and Use Regulations.
This Dispensation is granted on the understanding that it relates only to
vehicles operated by the named company on that company’s business and
does not include sub-contractors. All other movements must be notified, as
required under Construction and Use Regulations.
The driver MUST carry a copy of the Dispensation.
Routes Approved: -e.g.: specific motorways, major trunk roads/ dual
carriageways.
Other roads as individually permitted
Movements during the hours of darkness are only permitted on motorways.
This Dispensation expires on the 31st December ----
The Chief Constable / Chief Officer reserves the right to withdraw this
Dispensation, at any time.
For the Chief Constable / Chief Officer

Also not true about VOSA/DVSA, unless technically, as TCs can issue dispensation letters.

Thank you so much for that Own Account Driver, that’s really appreciated
Trouble is never been given a copy of the dispensation in my time of doing this with either company…

I rarely go over 3.5m width but have been known to go over, but we’ve always had movement orders in place anyway. However my rear overhangs are always longer than Constructions and Use Regulations. Usually between 3 - 5m overhang so not sure how that would stand??

This Dispensation is granted on the understanding that it relates only to vehicles operated by the named company on that company’s business and does not include sub-contractors

Yep that’s us to a “T”.

Movements during the hours of darkness are only permitted on motorways.

Never gonna happen a lot of our bigger loads go out early hours or come back in the later evening and they’re always gonna be coming in via A roads, onto B road and then will finish on minor country roads as we’re based in the middle of nowhere!

Really wanna see “ours” now if we’ve actually got one!

C