Unpaid work offer!?!

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
81

It’s a mugs game. If the companies want to help out so badly by giving new drivers “a chance” then they would offer a 2 week trial at x pay (at or above £nmw). If after that period they decide they don’t want to employ you then no harm done, they can still get rid of you without any employment issues or hassle and you can go off with 2 weeks experience and some money in your pocket knowing full well that it was only ever a trial ie. no guarantees of anything after those 2 weeks were up. If the company can’t even offer this then I don’t care how big or small they are nor what blue chip status they have, they aren’t worth working for, period.

The agency market has already been carved to pieces by all the “yes men” that jumped into it, willing to work for £6/hr straight through, wrecking wagons from bombing about and tipping on break etc. They’ve pretty much rendered agency work pointless now for those of us that like to go steady away, “fair days work for a fair days pay” and bringing the wagon back in one piece, leaving it as we found it or better. Let’s not encourage the noob drivers to work for free (regardless of whether you believe it’s a good idea or not) as ultimately it will affect your pay and/or job.

I wonder how many of the pro-working for free brigade would change their tune if their gaffer told them they were gonna be out of a job because they were going to start use noob drivers for free instead? :bulb: Short-sighted much?

82

Ok some good points made in the few posts. This will be my last on this particular subject.

Several things happened today. I have had a days training with a guy about to take his Cat ‘C’ test 8.45 tomorrow morning. I asked him a few questions. Things a driver with a little experience would know. What is the max hours you can drive in a single week? Answer: 40 hours. Q) Which Govt agency enforces drivers hours and general LGV infringements ? A) The DVLA.

The truth is that drivers passing the test are not properly equipped to go out into the real world and expect to compete for what jobs there are.

The other thing that happened is that ROG (remember him) called me having read this thread. He is a very wise man. He said that I should have made it clearer that by free labour I meant going out with an existing driver NOT replacing one. Not taking someone else’s job for a week. Learning the things not covered by the licence aquisition tests but essential to be able to work as a driver.

At the end of the “Free” week the newbee would know far more. The company would be able to judge his attitude and personality. Next time a week’s work comes up through sickness, holidays etc instead of calling an agency perhaps the transport manager would call the guy that had tried so hard to learn. Then the Golden door of opportunity opens. A chance to prove himself, FOR A WEEKS WAGES. If he screws up then so be it but if not the door may remain open.

Good luck to everyone trying to get the licence and to those that have and are still looking for that 1st chance. Do not throw any weapon out of your toolbag. Keep positive and always the glass is half full.

83

LGVTrainer:
Ok some good points made in the few posts. This will be my last on this particular subject.

Several things happened today. I have had a days training with a guy about to take his Cat ‘C’ test 8.45 tomorrow morning. I asked him a few questions. Things a driver with a little experience would know. What is the max hours you can drive in a single week? Answer: 40 hours. Q) Which Govt agency enforces drivers hours and general LGV infringements ? A) The DVLA.

Yes, it’s always been the same, on my first ever day driving a truck I tipped empty jars at Shippham’s at Chichester, and a bloke came up to me, showed me an ID card and said “Ministry of Transport. Where’s your O licence?”

So I said “What’s one of them then?”

So he said “It’s a disc which should be in your windscreen”.

So I said “Oh. Is it that?” and pointed to the road tax.

So he explained to me what an O licence was, and then I knew. I didn’t, and then I did. But I was still paid for my day going to Chichester and doing some “on-the-job” training. Nobody expected me to work for nothing until I had mastered the finer points of truck legality.

Having said that, my own instructor emphasised to me that I needed to know tachograph law when I went for test so I did at least know how many hours I could drive, maybe you could at least bring up the need to know these earlier during the training session.

Good luck to your pupil, I imagine he is ■■■■■■■■ buttons this evening, we have all been there!

84

Thanks Harry

I will give your good luck wish to Russell in the morning. I’m sure he will appreciate it. Hopefully by this time tomorrow he will have joined our students role of honour on the web site.

Trust me getting the guys to check their mirrors and blind spot takes up most of the time. The drivers hours rules will have to wait LOL

85

LGVTrainer:
Several things happened today. I have had a days training with a guy about to take his Cat ‘C’ test 8.45 tomorrow morning. I asked him a few questions. Things a driver with a little experience would know. What is the max hours you can drive in a single week? Answer: 40 hours. Q) Which Govt agency enforces drivers hours and general LGV infringements ? A) The DVLA.

I would have thought those are things that inexperienced drivers would be unlikely to know rather than should know unless they have received some training on the regulations.

LGVTrainer:
The other thing that happened is that ROG (remember him) called me having read this thread. He is a very wise man.

Roger Martin, I remember him.

LGVTrainer:
He said that I should have made it clearer that by free labour I meant going out with an existing driver NOT replacing one. Not taking someone else’s job for a week.

■■■■■■■■, that is not what you meant. In your earlier posts you were encouraging people to go and work for nothing, with not even a hint of going out with another driver. You’ve only changed your tune now because of the reception this idea has received from the majority. If you had meant that you would have said so long before now.

LGVTrainer:
Trust me getting the guys to check their mirrors and blind spot takes up most of the time. The drivers hours rules will have to wait LOL

So you were quite happy to put effort into trying to get people to work for nothing, because you obviously thought the opportunity of a bit of unpaid work would generate trainees for you, but you don’t want to put any effort into teaching the basics of the regulations? Surely, if you are as concerned as you are trying to make out, that would be a way you could slightly improve the trainees chances of gaining employment, especially as just about every job interview or agency application includes a test on the regulations.

If you are that concerned about the new passes why aren’t you pointing out the chances of them actually finding work after passing is a small one and maybe suggesting they save their money? It’s okay, that’s a rhetorical question, I know why.

86

LGVTrainer:
The truth is that drivers passing the test are not properly equipped to go out into the real world and expect to compete for what jobs there are.

Hi John,
That’s as true today as when I passed my HGV1 in 1979, but back then there was none of this initial DCPC stuff.
Had the guy to whom you asked your questions actually passed his theory test?
I’m not in the licence acquisition industry now, but IIRC, the type of questions that you asked him were in the multi-choice section of the theory test, so is that still the case?

LGVTrainer:
I should have made it clearer that by free labour I meant going out with an existing driver NOT replacing one. Not taking someone else’s job for a week. Learning the things not covered by the licence aquisition tests but essential to be able to work as a driver.

:open_mouth: Come off it John, do you seriously expect people to believe that?
You wrote what you wrote and fair play to you for clearly expressing a fair point, but if you really meant something so different to what you’d first written, surely you’d have made it clear when you first wrote it.

LGVTrainer:
Good luck to everyone trying to get the licence and to those that have and are still looking for that 1st chance. Do not throw any weapon out of your toolbag. Keep positive and always the glass is half full.

I also wish every trainee all the luck in the world, not just for soppy sentimental reasons, but because I truly fear that they’ll need it.

87

Coffeeholic:
■■■■■■■■, that is not what you meant.

I think I’ve mentioned before that you should stop being so tactful and say what you mean :laughing: :wink:

88

Coffee

Perhaps you can’t read

LGVTrainer:
I will say in truth that I have never suggested working for nothing but I can also say that many have found work listening to some of the “Outside the box” ideas we present.

22/01/11 10.47pm post

Coffeeholic:
So you were quite happy to put effort into trying to get people to work for nothing, because you obviously thought the opportunity of a bit of unpaid work would generate trainees for you, but you don’t want to put any effort into teaching the basics of the regulations? Surely, if you are as concerned as you are trying to make out, that would be a way you could slightly improve the trainees chances of gaining employment, especially as just about every job interview or agency application includes a test on the regulations.

Obviously you have never trained a LGV student before. Do you think we get enough time to cover things not needed on the test. Please explain how “the opportunity of a bit of unpaid work would generate more trainees” for me.

Please don’t start swearing with that “■■■■■■■■” stuff because you hold that MODERATOR title.

Coffeeholic:
■■■■■■■■, that is not what you meant.

Finally don’t talk to me about teaching the basics of the regulations. 25 years ago I was teaching the operators CPC to hundreds of students over many years. Stick to what you do best…whatever that may be.

89

Hello Dave

dieseldave:
Had the guy to whom you asked your questions actually passed his theory test?

Hope so mate as he is taking his Cat ‘C’ test tomorrow

I am not backtracking at all about the point I was making. There is little to Zero chance that a company will let a newly qualified loose on a vehicle as a solo driver with no knowledge of what is involved. Even if the driver offerd to PAY the company. The principle remains the same about offering a company the chance to see how good you are. To be honest I never really thought it mattered whether the free time was as a driver or as a drivers mate the principal is the same.

I only got involved to try and put a fair idea across.

Sorry if anyone is offended

90

LGVTrainer:
Hello Dave

dieseldave:
Had the guy to whom you asked your questions actually passed his theory test?

Hope so mate as he is taking his Cat ‘C’ test tomorrow

Hi John,
It seems that our man was possibly having an off-day then.
I remember that the theory test had a fair few drivers’ hours questions in it, and I’d find it difficult to believe that the randomness of the mix of questions that a candidate takes would leave out a whole section of questions. I seem to remember that there was supposed to be a fair mix of questions from each section in the book.
I guess I’m still surprised that the guy didn’t get the correct answer to your question about the max driving hours in a week.

LGVTrainer:
I am not backtracking at all about the point I was making.

Honestly mate, from where I’m sitting, it really does look like you are backtracking to the extent of a “U” turn.
Confessing to having spoken to a “U” turn Meister didn’t help though. :wink:

LGVTrainer:
I only got involved to try and put a fair idea across.

Sorry if anyone is offended

I doubt that anybody is actually offended John, because you did indeed put a fair point across and you did it very clearly too!!
IMHO, that’s why you got the reaction you did, which I reckon was quite right and proper in an open forum since all opinions can be discussed within the rules.

IMHO, it was the apparent “U” turn that did more harm than good.

91

LGVTrainer:
Ok some good points made in the few posts. This will be my last on this particular subject.

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

92

LGVTrainer:
Coffee

Perhaps you can’t read

Don’t worry, I can read fine, which is how I can so easily spot what you are trying to do. And not just me, others can see it as well.

LGVTrainer:
I will say in truth that I have never suggested working for nothing.

Again ■■■■■■■■. You clearly did suggest working for nothing and were encouraging the OP to do so, going on about it being 2011 and it being a weapon to use. You also wanted to know if people would want their training schools to arrange unpaid work. You changed your tune when you saw the responses, that couldn’t be more obvious. You posted after a conversation with Roger Martin that you didn’t mean working for free alone but working for free by going out with another driver. Now you are saying - “I will say in truth that I have never suggested working for nothing.” Make your mind up, free, free but not alone or not free?

I may be wrong but I don’t think U-turns are part of the LGV test, which is a real shame because you would be the dogs ■■■■■■■■ at teaching them based on your performance on this thread. :wink:

LGVTrainer:

Coffeeholic:
So you were quite happy to put effort into trying to get people to work for nothing, because you obviously thought the opportunity of a bit of unpaid work would generate trainees for you, but you don’t want to put any effort into teaching the basics of the regulations? Surely, if you are as concerned as you are trying to make out, that would be a way you could slightly improve the trainees chances of gaining employment, especially as just about every job interview or agency application includes a test on the regulations.

Obviously you have never trained a LGV student before. Do you think we get enough time to cover things not needed on the test.

Yet you were going to find time to arrange unpaid work for trainees if people had said that was what they wanted from a training school.

LGVTrainer:
Please explain how “the opportunity of a bit of unpaid work would generate more trainees” for me.

Are you really that stupid? Offering the chance of some unpaid work might well encourage people to train with you rather than another school, even though it would make virtually zero difference to their job prospects and be wrong for all the reasons people have outlined in this thread.

LGVTrainer:
Please don’t start swearing with that “■■■■■■■■” stuff because you hold that MODERATOR title.

■■■■■■■■ isn’t swearing, if it was it wouldn’t pass the auto censor on here and anyone who thinks it is must be a real sad [zb]. I am not posting on this thread as a MOD so that is irrelevant.

LGVTrainer:

Coffeeholic:
■■■■■■■■, that is not what you meant.

LGVTrainer:
Finally don’t talk to me about teaching the basics of the regulations. 25 years ago I was teaching the operators CPC to hundreds of students over many years.

What difference does what you did 25 years ago have to giving a student some information on the basics now? In my experience, and born out by numerous postings form trainers on this board over the last few years simply teaching a subject means nothing. See many posts detailing the nonsense people have been told on the DCPC courses they have attended for example. It seems to me that those who can do and those who cannot teach, with some notable exceptions such as dieseldave and bloodoodle on these boards.very

LGVTrainer:
Stick to what you do best…whatever that may be.

That would be nothing, other than getting through life by doing the minimum effort I can get away with in any given situation, I’m very good at that. So, I’ll stick to that and you stick to getting people to part with hundreds of pounds for a licence then suggesting afterwards they work for nothing, potentially affecting existing licence holders in the process.

93

tachograph:

Coffeeholic:
■■■■■■■■, that is not what you meant.

I think I’ve mentioned before that you should stop being so tactful and say what you mean :laughing: :wink:

You know I don’t do tactful when dealing with roasters. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

94

Coffeeholic:

LGVTrainer:
Coffee

Perhaps you can’t read

So, I’ll stick to that and you stick to getting people to part with hundreds of pounds for a licence then suggesting afterwards they work for nothing, potentially affecting existing licence holders in the process.

In fairness, it all balances out.

Before you pay for the lessons LGV trainers suggest that you will earn £40,000 a year. After you pay for the lessons they suggest a suitable wage would be Zero. Zilch, Nix, Nada.

Which averages out at £20,000 a year :wink:

95

Harry Monk:

Coffeeholic:

LGVTrainer:
Coffee

Perhaps you can’t read

So, I’ll stick to that and you stick to getting people to part with hundreds of pounds for a licence then suggesting afterwards they work for nothing, potentially affecting existing licence holders in the process.

In fairness, it all balances out.

Before you pay for the lessons LGV trainers suggest that you will earn £40,000 a year. After you pay for the lessons they suggest a suitable wage would be Zero. Zilch, Nix, Nada.

Which averages out at £20,000 a year :wink:

Good point, I hadn’t thought of that. :stuck_out_tongue:

96

anyone? :grimacing:

And what is this crap about “Rog phoned me up and told me I should do so-and-so” ? Who is he? Your personl advisor on how to back pedal out of ■■■■ ups on internet forums? Well I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised really, given his own vast experience at that…

97

I am not backtracking at all about the point I was making. There is little to Zero chance that a company will let a newly qualified loose on a vehicle as a solo driver with no knowledge of what is involved. Even if the driver offerd to PAY the company.

The only response I can draw from that is that the training offered by these ‘Training companies’ is obviously inadequate then. If the law states that this man is a fit and proper person to drive a truck down the road, but the companies know different then it’s time both the DSA and trainers actually listened to the companies who are expected to employ them and not just carry on burying there head in the sand whilst singing ‘We know best’! It’s high time the companies who are going to be the end users, re-wrote the training manual you are working from and felt secure that the end results are ‘Drivers’ not test passers.

I was in Engineering when I passed my test. On the Friday I passed, one company I had done some fabrication for (remember the days of stretching 30 ft trailers to the new idea of 40 ft ones) rang and asked if I would go take a load to ICI Runcorn. The next week I had phone calls from 2 other companies to do night runs to either Hailwood or Dagenham and the phone has never stopped ringing since. OK, I admit times were better back then, but after meeting some new test passers, one I worked with today in fact, they have taken their test (at the tax payers expense as well may I add) and were under the impression that they are going to go straight into a 30K a year job. They have been totally freaked out by the fact that nobody will employ them unless they have a bit of experience (or maybe if the employers just knew them).

My point is, Who is giving them the thought that the country is crying out for drivers when in reality, new drivers are considered by most firms to be unqualified to do the job?

Why is the thing editing fr eaked as a swear word■■?

98

I can see you are all in full on argument mode, or debate if you prefer, but after what this thread was originally about I’d like to say things may be more positive than doing an unpaid trial.

I had an interview at Tuffnells today and I’m expecting a call near the end of the week. He said he was very interested in employing me and that his only real concern is that I live an hour away, but I said I’d be willing to relocate. It’d be driving a 17T rigid and if this turns out to be my only offer I am taking it with both hands. Then I can start paying back my training company!

99

Glad your getting job sorted saxmachine, hour away isn’t bad though, but if relocating is easier then why not :wink: good luck :smiley:

100

Good luck mate
And I don’t think people were having a pop at you personally, just looking at the long term.