The last few posts above have been a bit negative. I would like to put another angle on this point.
When you decide to become a LGV driver there are 2 things you need to make the dream come true. 1) A full LGV licence & 2) A job.
People are prepared to put lots of money, time and effort into getting the licence. Even at best it will take around £1200 of your money and 8-10 weeks of your time inc theory, driving, CPC etc assuming you pass everything 1st time. Why not then put an extra week or so of your time and no extra money into trying to get the 2nd part of the dream.
It is widely accepted that having an assessment drive or 2 before deciding where to buy the training is the correct plan to adopt. Perhaps the employer would appreciate the chance to try a driver or 2 before deciding which one to pay for.
I agree that somewhere inside it feels morally a bit wrong to work to nothing but then again would you prefer to sit on the hard earned licence for a few years then hope to get a job by blagging about made up experience on your CV.
What I am asking and what Peter appears to agree with is, would the general feeling be positive if the LGV course came with another included element, namely some work experience. Think of it as just another part of the service the training company provides.
LGVTrainer:
What I am asking and what Peter appears to agree with is, would the general feeling be positive if the LGV course came with another included element, namely some work experience.
Not if you are supplying a company/companies with a steady stream of drivers they don’t need to pay and therefore saves them from actually employing someone on a proper wage.
John.
As you have already stated, any new trainee has already shown commitment by investing £1200 minimum in their future. If this was to become the normal situation there will be some hauliers who will have one truck without a regular driver and will go from newbie to newbie claiming he is ‘offering a service to new truck drivers’, without having to pay a wage for the running of that truck. That means one experienced driver will not be in a paid job as well.
All the various schemes we have had in the past that proclaim to give people a start in business have had a similar effect. Remember back to the ‘enterprise grants’? You went to a local leather shop to get some work done and after paying £30 for a job you decided to set up yourself doing it. So you got free rent/rates for 12 months and a £40 per week handout. So the town now has 2 leather shops, one who is experienced and has to stand on his own two feet, one who has no idea, but gets £40 wages every week from the Gov and pays no rent or rates but can offer you a cheaper job. The trouble with that scheme was that the experienced old hand ends up on the dole and the new boy failed just after he had put a good guy out of work and he had to then factor in the rent, rates and earn all his own money.
I have a business of my own and when I look for a new employee, I wouldn’t dream of asking them to work for nothing while I evaluate them and I can’t think of any business that should.
I would also question as to who will be paying this persons stamp for that week, the fact that he will not be eligible for dole or any social funding etc. and I’d love to hear the conversation between the insurance company when you inform them that this truck will be driven by voluntary workers. My insurance specifically says persons who I employ or who are sub-contracting to me.
LGVTrainer:
What I am asking and what Peter appears to agree with is, would the general feeling be positive if the LGV course came with another included element, namely some work experience. Think of it as just another part of the service the training company provides.
You can think of it how you like but it’s still working for nothing, every week someone works for nothing someone else goes without a weeks pay.
If a company is keen to help new drivers get a start they would have no problem paying them a nominal wage and arranging for the new driver to go out with an experienced driver and learn to do the job properly, and I don’t mean by replacing a paid driver mate.
You talk about people working for nothing so that companies can assess them but if the new driver is not being supervised how are they being assessed ?
LGVTrainer:
It is widely accepted that having an assessment drive or 2 before deciding where to buy the training is the correct plan to adopt. Perhaps the employer would appreciate the chance to try a driver or 2 before deciding which one to pay for
Isn’t the normal 2 or 3 moth probationary period for that exact purpose, to see if a worker is right for the job.
I do understand why a new driver desperate to get a start could be tempted by these schemes, people will do all sorts of things when desperate but working for nothing is not the way to go.
Apart from the fact that by working for nothing people are depriving other people of a wage you should also consider where it ends, a driver who is desperate enough to work for nothing will almost certainly be taken advantage of by employers and is likely to be running around like a lost zombie just to earn brownie points from the boss, Christ knows there are enough drivers like that now without encouraging it
LGVTrainer:
What I am asking and what Peter appears to agree with is, would the general feeling be positive if the LGV course came with another included element, namely some work experience. Think of it as just another part of the service the training company provides.
You can think of it how you like but it’s still working for nothing, every week someone works for nothing someone else goes without a weeks pay.
If a company is keen to help new drivers get a start they would have no problem paying them a nominal wage and arranging for the new driver to go out with an experienced driver and learn to do the job properly, and I don’t mean by replacing a paid driver mate.
You talk about people working for nothing so that companies can assess them but if the new driver is not being supervised how are they being assessed ?
LGVTrainer:
It is widely accepted that having an assessment drive or 2 before deciding where to buy the training is the correct plan to adopt. Perhaps the employer would appreciate the chance to try a driver or 2 before deciding which one to pay for
Isn’t the normal 2 or 3 moth probationary period for that exact purpose, to see if a worker is right for the job.
I do understand why a new driver desperate to get a start could be tempted by these schemes, people will do all sorts of things when desperate but working for nothing is not the way to go.
Apart from the fact that by working for nothing people are depriving other people of a wage you should also consider where it ends, a driver who is desperate enough to work for nothing will almost certainly be taken advantage of by employers and is likely to be running around like a lost zombie just to earn brownie points from the boss, Christ knows there are enough drivers like that now without encouraging it
mate,you do what you need to do,if its genuine,then 2 weeks unpaid trial is harmless in the scale of things,being a newbie is hard,but never as hard as it is today with insurance companies the way they are…2 years down the line he could still be in the job earning some good money…BUT only if this is genuine and not a scam…
clarkyboy:
mate,you do what you need to do,if its genuine,then 2 weeks unpaid trial is harmless in the scale of things,…
So you are out of work and you go round a few firms seeing what they have available. You are told, “Sorry mate, we have nothing as we are getting people in to work for free for a couple of weeks at a time, don’t need to take anybody on and pay them.”
Still harmless?
People who want to work for free, unless it is voluntary or charity work, should have electrodes applied to their testicular region until they see sense.
Over the years on this forum I have long suspected that many trainers are less than bright, this thread is only confirming that.
In a past life I ended up on the sick for while, when I recovered I actually wanted to trade down to lesser qualified and paid job to which I had been doing. I went on some kind of restart for people coming off incapacity into work, I took an unpaid clerical position for which I had past experience and hoped to prove myself to get in the door.
My previous job was in computers and I’m very savvy at getting “access”, I accessed an area not protected but hidden “out of the way” and found file after file on all the mugs who had come before me (for free).
I left immediately having worked 2 weeks showing them I could do the “job” with my eye’s closed, (the job was within the local council).
Sorry but I cant let this one go. Let’s hear from the many people who have paid hundreds for their LGV and then been told SORRY but no experience no job.
I will put it another way. You have 2 choices. 1) Take the decision to better yourself. Borrow, beg, steal the money to get your LGV. The training companies advertise 50,000 vacancies so you go for it. You pass. Not 50,000 not 500 not even 1 company will give you a start.
You ask yourself and the training company why no job ? You never get an answer !
Take the decision to better yourself. Borrow, beg, steal the money to get your LGV. The training companies advertise 50,000 vacancies so you go for it. You pass. Not 50,000 not 500 not even 1 company will give you a start. You think “I know, it is because I have only just passed and they think I am not good enough”. What next ? How do I convince this employer I am the right person for that vacancy ?
Then you have an idea. Let me prove to them I AM THE RIGHT PERSON. But how ? But how ? Why are you the right person ? The company doesn’t seem to think so. Do what no other person has ever done. Say to them “Give me the chance to prove to you I am good for your business. I will even work for NOTHING until you are convinced I am the right person”
Guys this is 2011. Use every weapon in the bag. This is certainly one of them.
LGVTrainer:
2) Take the decision to better yourself. Borrow, beg, steal the money to get your LGV. The training companies advertise 50,000 vacancies so you go for it. You pass. Not 50,000 not 500 not even 1 company will give you a start. You think “I know, it is because I have only just passed and they think I am not good enough”. What next ? How do I convince this employer I am the right person for that vacancy ?
Then you have an idea. Let me prove to them I AM THE RIGHT PERSON. But how ? But how ? Why are you the right person ? The company doesn’t seem to think so. Do what no other person has ever done. Say to them “Give me the chance to prove to you I am good for your business. I will even work for NOTHING until you are convinced I am the right person”
And while working for nothing preventing another driver, who may also have paid hundreds for their licence from obtaining paid employment because some [zb]ing trumpet is working for nothing and the company are thinking if one sucker will do this I’m sure we can get others to do the same, we can save a fortune in wages, NI, benefits and the like.
LGVTrainer:
Guys this is 2011.
Indeed it is and people should have more respect for themselves than to prostitute them self in this manner.
Here’s an idea for 2011. Maybe you, and other training schools, could tell people who contact you with a view to training for their licence(s) that there is little point and they are probably going to be wasting their money as the likelihood of them obtaining a job afterwards will be somewhere between zero and slim. You get a warm fuzzy feeling by saving them money. They save the money and the heartache. The people who have already paid hundreds for their licence will also benefit as the stream of newly qualified, inexperienced LGV licence holders will dry up leading eventually to job opportunities for the existing licence holders. The schools will still have people to train who don’t need to find a job after getting the licence. It’s a win win situation.
LGVTrainer:
Then you have an idea. Let me prove to them I AM THE RIGHT PERSON. But how ? But how ? Why are you the right person ? The company doesn’t seem to think so. Do what no other person has ever done. Say to them “Give me the chance to prove to you I am good for your business. I will even work for NOTHING until you are convinced I am the right person”
Guys this is 2011. Use every weapon in the bag. This is certainly one of them.
You are an LGV trainer so you have the same vested interest as an estate agent convincing a naive young couple that this is the perfect time to buy a house.
The simple fact is that the vast majority of your pupils have spent a fortune to buy a ticket to the dole queue.
LGVTrainer:
Sorry but I cant let this one go. Let’s hear from the many people who have paid hundreds for their LGV and then been told SORRY but no experience no job.
I will put it another way. You have 2 choices. 1) Take the decision to better yourself. Borrow, beg, steal the money to get your LGV. The training companies advertise 50,000 vacancies so you go for it. You pass. Not 50,000 not 500 not even 1 company will give you a start.
You ask yourself and the training company why no job ? You never get an answer !
Take the decision to better yourself. Borrow, beg, steal the money to get your LGV. The training companies advertise 50,000 vacancies so you go for it. You pass. Not 50,000 not 500 not even 1 company will give you a start. You think “I know, it is because I have only just passed and they think I am not good enough”. What next ? How do I convince this employer I am the right person for that vacancy ?
Then you have an idea. Let me prove to them I AM THE RIGHT PERSON. But how ? But how ? Why are you the right person ? The company doesn’t seem to think so. Do what no other person has ever done. Say to them “Give me the chance to prove to you I am good for your business. I will even work for NOTHING until you are convinced I am the right person”
Guys this is 2011. Use every weapon in the bag. This is certainly one of them.
I realise that it’s your business to promote training but surely you can see that the best weapon prospective trainees could have would be the truth about their job prospects so that they could make an informed choice, would that not be better than telling people they should work for free and just hope that they are not being exploited.
To be honest I’m a little surprised that any of the trainers on Trucknet-UK would seemingly be excusing the lies told by some training companies and expecting drivers to work for free as if that would exonerate the culprit training companies
Every week that someone works for nothing one person works and two people are deprived of a weeks wages.
LGVTrainer:
Say to them “Give me the chance to prove to you I am good for your business. I will even work for NOTHING until you are convinced I am the right person”
So now you want people to work for free indefinitely
LGVTrainer:
Then you have an idea. Let me prove to them I AM THE RIGHT PERSON. But how ? But how ? Why are you the right person ? The company doesn’t seem to think so. Do what no other person has ever done. Say to them “Give me the chance to prove to you I am good for your business. I will even work for NOTHING until you are convinced I am the right person”
Guys this is 2011. Use every weapon in the bag. This is certainly one of them.
You are an LGV trainer so you have the same vested interest as an estate agent convincing a naive young couple that this is the perfect time to buy a house.
The simple fact is that the vast majority of your pupils have spent a fortune to buy a ticket to the dole queue.
Dont do it mate I agree with Coffee on this it looks bad on your CV. You’ve taken your tests and passed for a reason, to earn a living as a professional driver. Not to work for nothing! Also as the other posts have said and I agree, and I have worked for them, I find it highly unlikely that Wincanton would ask you to work pro bono.
How many agencies are you registered with and have you had the Phone-Book/Yellow Pages out? Willing to relocate? Work weekends, Bank Holidays? All these things will stand you a better chance of finding work.
I typed Haulage into google maps and found numbers that way and phoned round. I counted 90 companies that have been contacted and stated that I am available to work immediately and willing to relocate etc. I have 5 applications to fill and one informal interview on Monday.
As not seen a comment from him he just letting the rest argue amongst are selves
Probably gone to another forum who agree with him
However looking from the bottom looking up, or from the inside looking out, it came to me that working for nothing may come under the operator licensing system.
Before being granted a licence, operators must satisfy the Traffic Commissioner that they are of good repute, of appropriate financial standing and professionally competent. The primary objective of operator licensing is to safeguard the travelling public. It also serves to ensure there is fair competition between operators, e.g. by preventing operators from cutting safety standards by cutting costs.
Does a company who doesn’t pay it’s drivers have any advantage over it’s competitors?
one of the biggest firms around with DHL etc
