It’s just another example of the way in which the working class and the unions have lost the plot.Employers want to drive down terms and conditions using the typical old tactic of take it or leave it and if you leave it we’ll throw you on the dole.Meanwhile the unions haven’t got the rank and file unity,bottle or the legal right to organise and take action on a general strike basis.So it’s just another case in the long term of workers being scared into accepting lower terms and condition under threats by management and the unions being too weak to do anything about it with an economy to match.
stevieboy308:
commonrail:
what…exactly does standing up for yourself mean?boss,i want more money.
you can`t have any
ok,i quit
see ya then.and anyway…going by the number of people who openly mock another man for the rates he earns…it does`t sound like there is too much of a problem anyway.
sounds to me like you`re all raking it in
on the same vein, i’ve asked in the past what is exactly meant by sticking together, i didn’t get an answer!
If you’d have been there when the unions brought down Heath you’d know what sticking together means.
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
commonrail:
what…exactly does standing up for yourself mean?boss,i want more money.
you can`t have any
ok,i quit
see ya then.and anyway…going by the number of people who openly mock another man for the rates he earns…it does`t sound like there is too much of a problem anyway.
sounds to me like you`re all raking it in
on the same vein, i’ve asked in the past what is exactly meant by sticking together, i didn’t get an answer!
If you’d have been there when the unions brought down Heath you’d know what sticking together means.
but i wasn’t and i’ve still not had an answer
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
commonrail:
what…exactly does standing up for yourself mean?boss,i want more money.
you can`t have any
ok,i quit
see ya then.and anyway…going by the number of people who openly mock another man for the rates he earns…it does`t sound like there is too much of a problem anyway.
sounds to me like you`re all raking it in
on the same vein, i’ve asked in the past what is exactly meant by sticking together, i didn’t get an answer!
If you’d have been there when the unions brought down Heath you’d know what sticking together means.
but i wasn’t and i’ve still not had an answer
That is the answer.The right to strike on a cross trade,general,secondary action basis and workers who’ve got the bottle and the unity to use it.
Not quite as simple now all the big utilities are private companys and its easy to move elsewhere
"Sticking together " would relate supporting fellow drivers when their wages and conditions are being eroded. You can do this for reasons of, solidarity, altruism, or simply because it could be you next and you might need some help. The more widespread the driving down of wages and conditions becomes, the easier it becomes; then the lower point becomes the norm. Then we can all post about how bad the wages and conditions have become. Or …we can "stick together " and do something about it.
kr79:
Not quite as simple now all the big utilities are private companys and its easy to move elsewhere
The actual power stations and gas supply maintenance and control are where the weak points would be now for effective co ordinated action assuming the unions had solidarity amongst the ‘right’ employees.That’s in addition to dockers,rail workers and truck drivers even with containerisation.The fact is the idea of solidarity went out of the window when the working class listened to and then believed all the bs about the ‘unions’ having ‘too much power’ and the acceptance of cheap immigrant labour.The economy we’ve got now in which wages are falling behind prices with ever decreasing terms and conditions is the result of that.
oldhippyandy:
"Sticking together " would relate supporting fellow drivers when their wages and conditions are being eroded. You can do this for reasons of, solidarity, altruism, or simply because it could be you next and you might need some help. The more widespread the driving down of wages and conditions becomes, the easier it becomes; then the lower point becomes the norm. Then we can all post about how bad the wages and conditions have become. Or …we can "stick together " and do something about it.
You can’t have solidarity under the present anti trade union laws.
oldhippyandy:
"Sticking together " would relate supporting fellow drivers when their wages and conditions are being eroded. You can do this for reasons of, solidarity, altruism, or simply because it could be you next and you might need some help. The more widespread the driving down of wages and conditions becomes, the easier it becomes; then the lower point becomes the norm. Then we can all post about how bad the wages and conditions have become. Or …we can "stick together " and do something about it.
but this is exactly my point, what do you mean exactly by sticking together?
he means going on strike,which…in the case of grangemouth would have meant closure.at the end of the day,if the money aint there,you can`t have it.
I do not mean “Strike”. Sooner or later we’ll get a mention of Red Robbo, British Leyland and it’ll be game over for sensible discussion. So, I’ll ask you chaps, when your terms and conditions are about to be altered, (and not for the better), what will you do?
commonrail:
he means going on strike,which…in the case of grangemouth would have meant closure.at the end of the day,if the money aint there,you can`t have it.
The problem is that the workers can’t then say that in the case of their financial liabilities.While ‘closure’ in most cases actually translates as work for zb all or the threat of the sack which is one of the oldest employers tactics in the book going back through the ages.
oldhippyandy:
I do not mean “Strike”. Sooner or later we’ll get a mention of Red Robbo, British Leyland and it’ll be game over for sensible discussion. So, I’ll ask you chaps, when your terms and conditions are about to be altered, (and not for the better), what will you do?
So you’re saying that you want the union rep to go into negotiations with the employers and then when push inevitably comes to shove you’re not prepared to strike because if you do the employers will call you a communist. 
Carryfast:
commonrail:
he means going on strike,which…in the case of grangemouth would have meant closure.at the end of the day,if the money aint there,you can`t have it.The problem is that the workers can’t then say that in the case of their financial liabilities.While ‘closure’ in most cases actually translates as work for zb all or the threat of the sack which is one of the oldest employers tactics in the book going back through the ages.
but not in this case.
I am truly amazed that any unions still exist. They are like agencies take the bread out of your mouth and give you FA
another thing
did anyone here George Galloway on r2 
what a plonker…he was talking about taking the company into public ownership…wtf
so the taxpayer subsidises a company that is losing 10 mil a month…to secure the jobs of 1300 men 
yeah right
commonrail:
Carryfast:
commonrail:
he means going on strike,which…in the case of grangemouth would have meant closure.at the end of the day,if the money aint there,you can`t have it.The problem is that the workers can’t then say that in the case of their financial liabilities.While ‘closure’ in most cases actually translates as work for zb all or the threat of the sack which is one of the oldest employers tactics in the book going back through the ages.
but not in this case.
Who knows in this case.But in general the uk economy since the end of the 1970’s has just been based on either uk workers being prepared to trade terms and conditions to keep their jobs or the employers bringing in cheaper immigrant labour or closing down and moving the jobs elswhere to where the workers are prepared to work for zb all.Whatever the answer it’s clear that the unions are now defeated and it’s just a question of time as to the full implications of that in regards to the uk economy in the medium to long term.IE the 1920’s/30’s in real terms if not even worse because we’ve now got an even bigger inbalance in the labour supply v potential jobs in industry than we had then.
Why do people keep telling me what I’m saying, please try to take what is said at face value and not slant it to you own agenda. Negotiating is always preferable and often effective, and can involve compromise from all parties involved. Industrial action is not a blunt instrument and most people are not in favour of out and out confrontation as a first resort. You are aware of your value to your company, but is your employer? Industrial action can be stepped up if necessary and go as far as strike action. Would I go on strike/…Yes I would , but it is very much a last resort and something I would not do lightly, I know the effect it could have on myself, my family, the wider community and your employer and their business.
Carryfast:
commonrail:
Carryfast:
commonrail:
he means going on strike,which…in the case of grangemouth would have meant closure.at the end of the day,if the money aint there,you can`t have it.The problem is that the workers can’t then say that in the case of their financial liabilities.While ‘closure’ in most cases actually translates as work for zb all or the threat of the sack which is one of the oldest employers tactics in the book going back through the ages.
but not in this case.
Who knows in this case.
I assume the company figures where available for everyone concerned to scrutinise.even the likes of George Galloway didn’t deny the company losses.
oldhippyandy:
Why do people keep telling me what I’m saying, please try to take what is said at face value and not slant it to you own agenda. Negotiating is always preferable and often effective, and can involve compromise from all parties involved. Industrial action is not a blunt instrument and most people are not in favour of out and out confrontation as a first resort. You are aware of your value to your company, but is your employer? Industrial action can be stepped up if necessary and go as far as strike action. Would I go on strike/…Yes I would , but it is very much a last resort and something I would not do lightly, I know the effect it could have on myself, my family, the wider community and your employer and their business.
I think the erosion of terms and conditions and where the economy is now and where it’s heading shows the results of that idea since the days when it was ( rightly ) a case of strike first on a secondary united supportive basis then negotiate from a position of strength.