Unions & Digi tacho's

Spoke to a driver of old the other day who is a member of a union,are many of you all?is it worth it and which is the best one to join?

Also,spent the last 2 weeks with my new Digital Tacho and to be honest im a bit disappointed.
it is good in some respects but it absolutely rips me off out of driving time.
was in the yard the other day parked up,I pulled forward reveresed back,filled up with Ad Blue pulled forwards again and reversed back to park.

6 MInutes of driving time :open_mouth: :open_mouth: for no more than 2 minutes max
Also pulled in the yard on 4 hrs 28 minutes driving I had to stop to let someone out,I moved again nosed it in to the space instead of reversing it and It came up with EXCEEDED DRIVING TIME and clocked me at 4 hrs 31

I have heard that something is going to be done about this as it is’nt right in my opinion,also the Overspeed thing,surely if im not going over 60 I cant be prosecuted for speeding.I get no warning on my Siemans either unlike the other one (cant think of the brand)
My motor is limited to 52 but the threshold for overspeed is lower as the limiter is set lower ,I can get an overspeed by doing 56/57 mph.

In some respects it is spot on,but if your queueing on the dock moving forward say every 5 minutes it is ■■■■■■■ awful.it also resets driving time if you stick it on POA instead of Break:shock:
but I dont rely on that anyway as I log every break against my driving time in my book :wink: :laughing:

■■■■ it :unamused:

bikemonkey:
Spoke to a driver of old the other day who is a member of a union,are many of you all?is it worth it and which is the best one to join?

I’m in URTU because that’s who is recognised at our depot. I have been a member of TGWU and also GMB when working elsewhere.

I stay in the union because it does give you a bit of muscle when negotiating pay rises and stuff, though not to any great degree.

Having said that - a union is only as strong as the members who are in it. As an example, a few weeks ago one of our blokes was moaning about our management and told me he was really going to let rip in a drivers meeting a few days later. When it came to the meeting he never said a word. Not a thing. He had a perfect opportunity to let management know what it was he wanted changing in the job, and he never said a word. I think that’s the case with southerners though. Seems to me that if you go up north, people just tell you what they think. I like that in people.

As regards which union to join - I couldn’t possibly recommend one of the three I am / have been a member of over the other two. Never had to use any of them in anger. I will say, however, that they are all as efficient at collecting direct debit payments as each other.

Maybe URTU is the best because they sent me a free diary and URTU window sticker. :laughing:

If my workplace didn’t recognise a particular union - I wouldn’t be a member of any.

flying_fenman:
Maybe URTU is the best because they sent me a free diary and URTU window sticker. :laughing:

I think that was the one he was a member of.
I seem to remember a diary and window sticker being mentioned in the conversation :laughing: :laughing: thats what got me interested

Well here is mine.

Bet you’re well jealous now ain’t ya??

And for only ten quid a month!!! :laughing:

What a bargain. :unamused:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

T and G for me (or Unity the union as it now is).
Joining any union has to give you some protection but to be strong a union has to have support from its members, without that support any union can do very little.
For a while I was in 2 unions, TGWU for a long time and USDAW as they were the recognised union where I worked, and to be fair they both offered very good legal advice and assistance when it was needed.
Both have provided me with the ability to claim for industrial accidents without any fuss or bother.
Don’t know about the others but the TGWU offer an insurance against losing your HGV licencefor medical reasons, paying out £7000 for permanent loss.
The unions always come in for a lot of stick in forums such as this but without them (IMO) the industry would be far worse.

Here’s something i think a lot of people are forgetting…what ever the digital tachos inefficiencys are or arn’t, ALL your driving time now counts since the recent change in the law ,so that messing about in the yard for 15 mins then counting from leaving the gate just doesn’t work any more. The digi is counting all your time behind the wheel behind the controls as driving, and thats what it is. With the analouges we could ‘get away’ with so much more. For many guys it won’t make a difference but for the ones on long distance trunks where you only just made it then its curtains for some of them runs as a regular daily job. I;m not so sure its a "digi " failing ,more that it is doing its job? Buts its caused enough of a stir for people to start ‘trialling’ them both now along side each other.

Many folk complained when the WTD did nothing to limit our working time and now here is something that will limit it and what happens? Folk complain. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

You can please all of the drivers none of the time and none of the… Nope, that’s pretty much it. :wink:

I dont really understand the link between unions and tachographs. I know they did nothing for the members who had to pay for their digi cards. The drivers still had to pay.

As for Digital Tachographs, just look in the back of Commercial Motor or in T & D and you will see many major dealers selling vehicles using the fact they are fitted with Analogue as a major selling point.

Even the new dealers are still pushing analogue,

We have half a dozen digi trucks stood because no one wants to drive them :open_mouth:

They made my gaffer pay for the card!

Wheel Nut:
I dont really understand the link between unions and tachographs.

They both cost money for a little card…thats the link !

on the subject of Digi tachs rounding up driving time, when I used to drive an analogue vehicle I never calculated my driving time by stopping some sort of timer every time the wheels stopped turning, if i left the yard at 6 and arrived at delivery point at 9 that was 3 hours driving. I might have stopped in motorway congestion several times for a few minutes but if your behind the wheel with engine running I believe it should be driving time.
Some times when you do get stuck in traffic the digi tach records less driving than the time I have been behind the wheel, I left Rugby at 6,30 drove down M1, M25, A13 into Tilbury, arrived at 09,15. checked on tacho and it had recorded 3 hours 8 minutes because of time i spent stationary in traffic jams. I would have counted this as 3hrs 15 minutes in my old analouge truck!

I might be being thick but I can’t understand how these digitachs ‘round up’ driving time. :unamused:

Assume you are doing a VERY short multi-drop route around the town where your depot is and then home in a short time like this.

Start driving: 06:25
Driving: 5mins
1st drop at: 06:30 (1min dropping off)
Driving: 1min
2nd drop at: 06:32 (1min dropping off)
Driving: 1mins
3rd drop at: 06:34 (1min drop off)
Driving: 5mins
Home: 06:40

Your duty is 15mins
Other work is 3mins
Driving is: 12mins

Assuming the digitach has recorded 2minutes every time the vehicle has ACTUALLY only been driven for 1minute, the unit thinks you have done 3extra minutes driving. :confused:

Surely, the digitach thinks it is 06:43 when you stop? So, when you swap your wagon immediately with another driver and he puts his card in does it record his start time as 06:43 or 06:40 (which it actually is). :confused:

If my example was taken further for a full day would you not finish work at say 16:00 and the tacho think it is 18:00? If so how come this ‘super new unit’ can’t even tell the time?

I’m not sure my example makes sense to be honest? Am I asking a stupid question? I’ve never used a digi so maybe it would be obvious otherwise. :confused:

It’s not adding minutes to the time, it is all to do with how it records the minutes either side of a period of one driving minute, or one stationary minute with driving either side of it, and how it records a whole minute as driving even if you just drove for 10 seconds in that minute.

geebee45 posted an explanation recently.

geebee45:
To set the record straight on what digital tachos do (and don’t record);

If there is any movement in a calendar minute (runs from 00 to 59 seconds) then the WHOLE MINUTE will be recorded as DRIVING.

If there is any movement in the calendar minute either side of a stationary minute, then the stationary minute will be recorded as DRIVING.

If the mode is changed in a calendar minute (this applies to break / work / availability) then the minute will be recorded as the mode that lasted the longest. eg; if you changed at 20 seconds from work to break, then break would be recorded for the minute as that occupied the greater part of the minute (40 seconds). If both activities are the same length, in the calendar minute, then the last activity selected will be the one recorded.

When a vehicle becomes stationary ‘other work’ is selected automatically. If you change the mode within 2 minutes of becoming stationary the tacho will record the mode selected as if it started when the truck became stationary.

Well, now I know! :wink:

Cheers for that Coffee, I missed the explanation in the previous topic. I figured there would be some rational explanation. :unamused: :smiley:

bikemonkey:
Spoke to a driver of old the other day who is a member of a union,are many of you all?is it worth it and which is the best one to join?

Also,spent the last 2 weeks with my new Digital Tacho and to be honest im a bit disappointed.
it is good in some respects but it absolutely rips me off out of driving time.
was in the yard the other day parked up,I pulled forward reveresed back,filled up with Ad Blue pulled forwards again and reversed back to park.

6 MInutes of driving time :open_mouth: :open_mouth: for no more than 2 minutes max
Also pulled in the yard on 4 hrs 28 minutes driving I had to stop to let someone out,I moved again nosed it in to the space instead of reversing it and It came up with EXCEEDED DRIVING TIME and clocked me at 4 hrs 31

I have heard that something is going to be done about this as it is’nt right in my opinion,also the Overspeed thing,surely if im not going over 60 I cant be prosecuted for speeding.I get no warning on my Siemans either unlike the other one (cant think of the brand)
My motor is limited to 52 but the threshold for overspeed is lower as the limiter is set lower ,I can get an overspeed by doing 56/57 mph.

In some respects it is spot on,but if your queueing on the dock moving forward say every 5 minutes it is [zb] awful.it also resets driving time if you stick it on POA instead of Break:shock:
but I dont rely on that anyway as I log every break against my driving time in my book :wink: :laughing:

[zb] it :unamused:

When You stop and drive on in the next 2 minutes does the Tacho count the Stop as driving.=Stop also for 3 minutes :smiley:

Mike-C:
Here’s something i think a lot of people are forgetting…what ever the digital tachos inefficiencys are or arn’t, ALL your driving time now counts since the recent change in the law ,so that messing about in the yard for 15 mins then counting from leaving the gate just doesn’t work any more. The digi is counting all your time behind the wheel behind the controls as driving, and thats what it is. With the analouges we could ‘get away’ with so much more. For many guys it won’t make a difference but for the ones on long distance trunks where you only just made it then its curtains for some of them runs as a regular daily job. I;m not so sure its a "digi " failing ,more that it is doing its job? Buts its caused enough of a stir for people to start ‘trialling’ them both now along side each other.

Ehhh…
Driving counts from pulling out of the Parkingbay,taking the Trailer,leaving the Yard,ect,ect,BUT
If you start your Shift and have to go to Housegarage first,can you put the Tacho to OUT (of Scope),as the Time to Garage,to fill Oil and Water in,checking this and tha,doesn’t count as Driving. It’s just working.
Driving counts then from that moment you overtake a Job and counts at Port as well as of Road (Tipper)

Basicly what Mike’s trying to say is that under the new regs, each time the truck moves its counted as driving. Where as under the old regs, it was only the driving on public roads which counted.

The other day, another driver on a digi motor and myself, driving an analogue motor were doing exactly the same runs, pickups, etc.

I decided to run an experiment.

Had my old faithfull tacho guard with me, and I dutifully recorded driving time everytime I moved, even if it was only a few yards.

At the end of the shift, tacho guard said 5h 59m. The digi recorded 6h 30m :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

A full half hour gone :exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation:

Henrys cat:
Basicly what Mike’s trying to say is that under the new regs, each time the truck moves its counted as driving. Where as under the old regs, it was only the driving on public roads which counted.

I think that what they are talking about is this.
These two pics where taken immediately after each other.

This one shows that my engine has been running for 12 minutes.


This one shows that in that 12 minutes, I drove for 15 minutes. :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

Now I will be the first to admit that this is easy enough to achieve. All I had to do was to drive for a few minutes, then zero the trip computer screen. I promise you I didn’t. This is 100% what my truck recorded from just before I started my engine until I was parked on the bay.

I started at the Routiers, just around the corner. Drove to the gate, stopped, booked in, drove to the loading point, stopped and checked which bay they wanted me on, then manoeuvred onto the bay, stopped and switched to break.
I knew I was in for a long wait and I was going to use their canteen and other facilities. I took these after waiting for almost an hour, when I came back to my cab to phone my boss to inform him of my lack of progress. As I was fiddling with the truck computer I noticed these displays and took the pics.

First off I want to say that the title Unions & Digi Tacho’s have no connection,I just wanted to cover both things in 1 thread.

I have ALWAYS used a stopwatch,so if stuck in traffic etc the stopwatch is still running,I also use the tripometre on the truck which only adds up if the wheels are moving,so my stopwatch was always up on the tripometer.when I got to my destination/end of shift etc and the stopwatch said i.e 3hrs 17 mins I would round the time up to 3 hrs 20 etc,so my driving time I put down was always up on the ACTUAL driving time id done.

but the Digi Tacho is absolutely ridiculous for the type of work I do,It is spot on for most journeys even in traffic,its when your moving on the docks stop starting it rips me off big time.
I left winchester services thursday morning,It was 27 mins to the dock,I stopped to get my paperwork dropped the box at the empty park,went round to area 1 (for those of you that know SCT)stopped in the slot stuck it on break and I was on 59 mins driving :open_mouth: obviously stopping to put in reg at barriers, releasing twistlocks,stretching my trailer is costing me 2 mins each time
I went to Pentalvers 2 weeks ago (an empty yard)about 15 trucks in the queue moving forward a truck length about every 5 mins.I got there on 17 mins by the time I’d moved 15 times to the booking in office,(no more than 10-15 secs each time driving)I was on 34 mins.
Suppose I’ll just have to get used to it,it just ■■■■■■ me off though as I know now a trip to the docks is gonna cost me over an hour of driving time on a good day whether I like it or not.