One of the places where i currently look after the tachos they have a 26 week reference period for the RTD. There are about 6 lads sometimes exceeding the 60 hour max and certainly the 48 hour average over the 26 week period.
I can clearly see they aren’t recording POA or BREAK when the vehicle is stationary - therefore I guess they must be involved in the tip/load or doing some other kind of work. bear in mind these 6 lads do the same drops and collections as the other 65 drivers so I don’t know why their work is different - unless the other 65 are doing it wrong.
I speak to these lads and explain the problem. As a company - all they can do if their hours are too high is give them less work. therefore they earn less money. yet they still don’t see it. Their little ring leader goes on about how they lose money if they record POA or break - yet they get paid for both. So if they get paid a 15 hour day of which 14 hours is POA and 30 minutes break - they still get paid the same. If they don’t record POA and break they still get paid the same.
These lads are going to end up losing out financially - which I know they don’t want. If they won’t record POA or break where they legally can - the company will end up assigning them less work (probably locals instead of tramping) to keep the RTD figures down. it’s silly but there is no other way. Giving holidays won’t work (unless over the required minimum entitlement) as these count as 8 hours work. it’ll just mean shorter days. And of course at times it means they sit in some RDC for 2 or 3 hours - then drive down the road and take an hours break … seems to be kicking the arse out of the job a little.
These are lads that argue they cannot record break or POA if the vehicle is being tipped … but they’re still sitting in the cab doing nowt. Unfortunately it will only end in tears.
I agree they shouldn’t have to work such long hours to earn a good wage … but that’s what the industry has done to itself and it isn’t going to change anytime soon. There isn’t the money in the job.
NathanB:
Save the arguments, say ■■■■■■■■ to poa and just worry about the mode switching from break to working (unless you drive an ancient wagon where you have the driving mode switch).
I listen to drivers on the cb worrying about “are we switching to poa?” and just think “wtf for?” Keep the job simple ffs.
Out of interest what sort of hours do you actually rack up in a week on tipper work? I’m thinking start 7am finish 4pm, minus your break, its not like its gonna be an issue for you guys. Or did i get my guess wrong?
This is not answering Mikes question, but may just show how POA is misunderstood by some.
Tipper driver follows another tipper into quarry, both pass the weighbridge and from experience, tipper two knows it takes 8 minutes to load an 8 wheeler. Those 8 minutes can be used as POA every time you have to wait. There is no reason you cannot book that time as BREAK, but 8 minutes is not enough to count for the legislation.
Every tipper driver I have ever come across uses that time to grab his flask and a newspaper
One of the places where i currently look after the tachos they have a 26 week reference period for the RTD. There are about 6 lads sometimes exceeding the 60 hour max and certainly the 48 hour average over the 26 week period.
I can clearly see they aren’t recording POA or BREAK when the vehicle is stationary - therefore I guess they must be involved in the tip/load or doing some other kind of work. bear in mind these 6 lads do the same drops and collections as the other 65 drivers so I don’t know why their work is different - unless the other 65 are doing it wrong.
At last, an answer to how the DCPC should work in reality
The OP joined a week ago, then posted this message and hasn’t been back on since But it was only a day ago, so The post below is what was in the news article, with the red coloured type being what the OP wrote in their post. However, it is clear that this is quite a popular thread. 3 pages in just over a day
Ely Standard:
Representatives from Unite have organised a meeting with the shadow secretary of state for transport, Maria Eagle, to discuss the issue after claims were made to the union that drivers are working up to 80 hours a week — nearly double the working time directive.
A delegation of drivers from Felixstowe have also been invited to attend the meeting and explain the situation.
The union is claiming that three or four companies which operate out of Felixstowe are “intimidating” their drivers into breaching the directive and it amounts to “systematic abuse” of their employees.
They are hoping the issue will be raised in Parliament.
Mark Plumb, regional officer for Unite, said: “All the current issues we will be raising will be around the systematic abuse of the working time directive.
“There are those in the Port of Felixstowe who have effectively been intimidated and bullied into trying to breach the working time directive.”
Other concerns which are set to be raised at the meeting in Westminster include that of night time working.
It is claimed that truckers who start work before 4am are not being given health checks to ensure they are safe to drive. They allege that some are being made to work 15-hour days up to three times a week.
Union officials are also claiming that drivers are only able to take breaks when their lorries are being unloaded and loaded.
Mr Plumb added: “We hope that Maria Eagle will raise these concerns with transport secretary Justine Greening, as these alleged abuses could be mirrored elsewhere in the UK.”
The union has said there is no sign yet that industrial action will be taken at the companies involved. However, they have threatened to name the companies unless there is a quick resolution to the matter.
Its very true that if you dont like the current conditions of working, you can always speak to the company to air your grievance, most will tell you Theres the gate
I applaud the union for at least trying to change the working pattern, What we need is legislation that protects the driver from unscrupulous hauliers/bosses.
Unfortunately, legislation inn transport always seems to have a twist to it, and mostly in the hauliers favour. When you have a Transport Select Committee, with members like Lord Sainsbury, the boss of Saints Transport, and their ilk, transport will always be in their favour,
If you look at the 15 hrs rule, most hauliers take advantage , and think its a normal working practice to plan for 15 hr days.
I believe that for many years the legislation has done us no favours, and it needs an overhaul, from night out money, to working hours, even taking into account travelling time from leaving the depot, to getting back for the next shift ( rest periods can be as low as 6 hrs )
For those who moan that theyre alright jack, there was always those same people who stood back when the rest of us were on strike or moaning about conditions in the industry to which they now benefit…good luck to unite for starting the ball rolling.
One of the places where i currently look after the tachos they have a 26 week reference period for the RTD. There are about 6 lads sometimes exceeding the 60 hour max and certainly the 48 hour average over the 26 week period.
I can clearly see they aren’t recording POA or BREAK when the vehicle is stationary - therefore I guess they must be involved in the tip/load or doing some other kind of work. bear in mind these 6 lads do the same drops and collections as the other 65 drivers so I don’t know why their work is different - unless the other 65 are doing it wrong.
At last, an answer to how the DCPC should work in reality
Oi! I never mentioned DCPC
I’ve just gone through the WTD/RTD reports for said company. Same names again - I look at the total work for a week (so that’s driving and working added together) and they are all a good 10+ hours ahead of all other drivers. So either they do different work or they don’t record it the same. We are exactly halfway through their current 26 week reference and some form of action will have to be taken to bring their recorded working hours down to get the average back under control. They will suffer financially.
If on the other hand they recorded break or POA on those occasions where other lads obviously do - and I mean proper sat doing nothing occasions - they wouldn’t be exceeding the average 48 hours.
However - going back to the OP. If working hours are reduced, which seems to be the Unions angle - pay will reduce accordingly. Hourly pay won’t change, just the ability to earn more money. You may find some positions may become like supermarket work. You can have £11 an hour but you can only have 20 hours a week so the driver would still lose money.
It was only two years ago we considered a self imposed restriction on hours to a max of 12 hours duty per day and a 5 day week, so max 60 hours duty. We put this to the driver reps and it came back as though we had threatened to go and murder their families. No way was a restriction on hours wanted. We now work on the priincipal that each driver can usually have what he wants. if he wants 15 hour days and six shift weeks then fine. if he doesn’t then fine. What we can’t do is mess around swopping shifts here there and everywhere. if a driver complains about his working hours being to long, he won’t be given any more 15 hour days - simple as that. What we can’t afford to do is pay more per hour.
Some do and some don’t, same as some deduct every break you take, some the first 45 and some none at
I can’t believe that!
Why would any driver book POA if he wasn’t going to get paid for it.
Surely he would simply sit on the bay etc with the tacho recording other work.
So with the reference above where some drivers are placing ‘other work’ and doing 10+ hours more a week than other colleagues, can the poster say if they would be paid any different if that time as recorded as POA instead of OW. If it is just a matter of changing mode then surely it is better to educate than penalise those individuals?
Alternatively, if they are paid differently then I can see why they would be booking it as ‘work’ when they’re just waiting…
Thanks for all the comments on this post, I didn’t realise it would get so much interest! Check out my other post about the tachograph rules and drivers understanding them.
reducing our hours would increase more jobs as hauliers would still
need to cover there contracts, then it would be 2 drivers 1 truck.
with this in place would then come the shifts 4 on 4 off, and for me
it would be the end of my driving as i like my weekends off
Saratoga:
So with the reference above where some drivers are placing ‘other work’ and doing 10+ hours more a week than other colleagues, can the poster say if they would be paid any different if that time as recorded as POA instead of OW. If it is just a matter of changing mode then surely it is better to educate than penalise those individuals?
Alternatively, if they are paid differently then I can see why they would be booking it as ‘work’ when they’re just waiting…
They get paid no different so they don’t gain anything. Education is not working. Same old conversations with them - “Yep got it. POA or break if I’m doing nowt” next time tacho’s are analysed - loads of work again. Speak to them and its “Well i was on a bay, can’t have a break on a bay blah blah blah”. “Wasn’t free to dispose of my time blah blah blah”… “You don’t need to be” “Yes I do” “No you don’t” “I’ve checked with the union” "Oh ■■■■ off … "
The fact is - they want their break later when they are where they want to be and it suits them - i.e. a certain layby with favourite healthy food van or certain truckers cafe etc. these lads will sit at an RDC for 2 or 3 hours recording work - then toddle off and sit somewhere for an hour having their break, and of course they’ll take an hour. And by then - because they haven’t recorded a break - then they have to have one, and of course they’ll insist the WTD says half an hour
I could understand if they recorded break at the RDC, then stopped a bit later for 15 or 20 mins to grab something to eat etc but they are genuinely taking the ■■■■. I appreciate an 08:00 or whatever time booking somewhere might not coincide with when they want something to eat or the toilet but … there’s being fair and there’s taking the ■■■■
The company is fairly relaxed about drivers breaks and more or less let them do as they want as long as deliveries are on time and the rules followed. But these lads are taking the ■■■■ and just can’t see it.
If they won’t change their ways - the RTD regs will have to be met, so the amount of work they do needs to be reduced. No other way. Nature of work is they would end up on local runs to ensure this happens. that isn’t punishment - just the way it works.
truckyboy:
For those who moan that theyre alright jack, there was always those same people who stood back when the rest of us were on strike or moaning about conditions in the industry to which they now benefit…good luck to unite for starting the ball rolling.
OVLOV JAY:
The trouble is Wayne, 9/10 drivers don’t pass their test and go from a 9-5 job and jump straight onto distance work. They work up. Vans and 7.5s. Doing local work, maybe for a manufacturing firm with set hours. Then class 2, usually local work again, skips or tippers or multi drop job and knock. Then they get a class 1 and do the 2 years on the trolleys for an agency, again pretty set routines, day in day out, 8 and the gate on Friday etc. Then they get all starry eyed and think it’s time do the up the road bit, when in reality they can’t hack it, so spend the next 30 years ■■■■■■■■ on the internet about how bad the industry is. If you want 9-5 routine, there’s plenty out there. For me the jobs not about that. I start Monday and finish Friday. Anything in between is what pays the bills
So true, and I thought it was just me ,if you don’t like the hours or life goriness another job
The post below is what was in the news article, with the red coloured type being what the OP wrote in their post. However, it is clear that this is quite a popular thread. 3 pages in just over a day 
