Undertaking in queue. What would you do

Carryfast:

F-reds:
I do exactly as you did.

In this day of mobile phones and minimal attention spans, these queues at pinch points are made artificially longer by everyone moving over too early, and then not keeping up with person in front because FB is more interesting than watching what they are meant to be doing. This means there is nearly always a healthy gap for you to get into nearer the merge.

Also at a lot of these pinch points the sign “merge in turn” appears at the closure so really you are doing nothing but making a longer queue by moving over too early.

Firstly it’s the slow merging operation ‘at’ the obstruction that’s ‘causing’ the ‘queue’.While it’s obvious that the government are all about artificially slowing down the road network in every way possible.

Which is why we don’t see the lane closure signs put at least 1 mile or more before the obstruction and the road works sign at 800 yds so everyone can merge into the correct lanes at higher speeds well before the obstruction.As opposed to vice versa which means that the merging operation has to be done at a crawl. :unamused:

On that note,as it stands and without that change in the lane closure warning regime,it’s obvious that everyone just has to accept the situation of an artificially created bottle neck on the basis of slow zip merging at the obstruction rather than a high speed lane change to merge long before it.

Yet again showing you just don’t know how wrong you are :open_mouth:

F-reds:

Carryfast:

F-reds:
I do exactly as you did.

In this day of mobile phones and minimal attention spans, these queues at pinch points are made artificially longer by everyone moving over too early, and then not keeping up with person in front because FB is more interesting than watching what they are meant to be doing. This means there is nearly always a healthy gap for you to get into nearer the merge.

Also at a lot of these pinch points the sign “merge in turn” appears at the closure so really you are doing nothing but making a longer queue by moving over too early.

Firstly it’s the slow merging operation ‘at’ the obstruction that’s ‘causing’ the ‘queue’.While it’s obvious that the government are all about artificially slowing down the road network in every way possible.

Which is why we don’t see the lane closure signs put at least 1 mile or more before the obstruction and the road works sign at 800 yds so everyone can merge into the correct lanes at higher speeds well before the obstruction.As opposed to vice versa which means that the merging operation has to be done at a crawl. :unamused:

On that note,as it stands and without that change in the lane closure warning regime,it’s obvious that everyone just has to accept the situation of an artificially created bottle neck on the basis of slow zip merging at the obstruction rather than a high speed lane change to merge long before it.

Yet again showing you just don’t know how wrong you are :open_mouth:

No, but you have to admit it’s bloody funny! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Carryfast:
Firstly it’s the slow merging operation ‘at’ the obstruction that’s ‘causing’ the ‘queue’.While it’s obvious that the government are all about artificially slowing down the road network in every way possible.

Which is why we don’t see the lane closure signs put at least 1 mile or more before the obstruction and the road works sign at 800 yds so everyone can merge into the correct lanes at higher speeds well before the obstruction.As opposed to vice versa which means that the merging operation has to be done at a crawl. :unamused:

On that note,as it stands and without that change in the lane closure warning regime,it’s obvious that everyone just has to accept the situation of an artificially created bottle neck on the basis of slow zip merging at the obstruction rather than a high speed lane change to merge long before it.

“Nonsense”, I said to myself as I read this post, before noticing it was you Carryfast.

The only way a bottleneck could be avoided when two lanes (equally trafficked) merge into one, is if density is doubled, speed is doubled, or some combination of the two.

Speed will rarely increase, so usually density increases to a certain point, and then speeds drop to allow further density increases (as stopping distances are consumed), and finally (if necessary) traffic at the entry stops to queue at maximum density.

Obviously, merging modestly earlier (tens or hundreds of yards rather than miles) than the actual bottleneck is prudent so that traffic proceeds smoothly through the restriction at its optimum density and speed, rather than two jockeying cars hesitating or slamming on to avoid collision, which will then cause a gap to appear in the stream of traffic entering the restriction.

If traffic is free-flowing at motorway speeds, you should merge across at normal ‘sliproad’ distances of hundreds of yards. If traffic within the restriction is stationary, and a queue has formed behind it, you should proceed to within tens of yards and zipper merge.

The effect of merging much earlier than at the actual bottleneck, once a queue has already formed, is just to create exactly the same situation, but at an imaginary bottleneck further back.

It does not smooth the flow into the bottleneck, beyond the tens of yards already stated - and in fact in real life where a mixture of strategies are asserted, it may interrupt the flow, as two lanes approach at different speeds and then jockey about what is ‘fair’, whereas this cannot happen if the lanes are used equally to begin with (i.e. if my strategy is asserted dominantly, yours is neutralised, whereas yours when asserted dominantly not only fails to prevent the assertion of mine, but actually enables a new strategy: of queue-jumping along long, empty lanes).

What your strategy does do however is projects the queue backwards at higher speed, possibly requiring drivers to brake more harshly, and queuing will also reach previous junctions much sooner (i.e. literally causing gridlock).

The advice of traffic engineers stands that unless advised otherwise by signs, then all normally available road space should be used to queue (i.e. people should merge as required by encountering the bottleneck itself, not as required by encountering the queue formed in other lanes behind it), and traffic from each lane should then proceed in turn.

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Firstly it’s the slow merging operation ‘at’ the obstruction that’s ‘causing’ the ‘queue’.While it’s obvious that the government are all about artificially slowing down the road network in every way possible.

Which is why we don’t see the lane closure signs put at least 1 mile or more before the obstruction and the road works sign at 800 yds so everyone can merge into the correct lanes at higher speeds well before the obstruction.As opposed to vice versa which means that the merging operation has to be done at a crawl. :unamused:

On that note,as it stands and without that change in the lane closure warning regime,it’s obvious that everyone just has to accept the situation of an artificially created bottle neck on the basis of slow zip merging at the obstruction rather than a high speed lane change to merge long before it.

“Nonsense”, I said to myself as I read this post, before noticing it was you Carryfast.
.

Jeeez H, I think they’ve found love. :smiley:
(Clue is in the 7 page love letters to each other. :smiley: )

Same as you. These pompous arrogant self appointed guardians of the road can eff right off as far as I’m concerned. The lanes closed at the bollards and that’s that

Merge in turn, or how much of a hurry are you in you may want to shove straight to the front to many wannabe coppers out there, you’re not in the queue at the chippy are you and its not a contest with no prizes for first place.

I think I recall reading somewhere a while ago that Highways encourage using the lanes up tot he cones, and merging in turn.

What happens now is, most people move over about two miles from the road works and end up pushing the lane closure … yup …two miles back down the road. Which makes making progress much worse.

I do the same as you mate, only I tend to tick along slowly, just to kind of show I’m not taking the pi$$…and in case anyone randomly pulls out. I’d avoid heading into the hard shoulder though. Points territory…

robroy:
It’s a bit like these ‘Smart’ stretches where it goes into 4 lanes, and very few move over turning it from a 4 lane stretch to a 3 lane (blocked) stretch, or when the hard shoulder is opened up, many are reluctant to use it for some obscure reason.

Usually get this coming down the M6 from Cannock to j10 it’s on the matrix “congestion use hard shoulder” 60mph limit but the HS is empty and traffic tootling along so its straight down the hard shoulder thank you very much get some funny looks but tough if they can’t read signs will have the HS to my self sometimes lol :smiley:

Just as good on the other side Jeff. I am always the only one going past Fort Dunlop in ’ lane 1 '.

Id have done exactly the same Rob. In slow moving traffic its dog eat dog. Nice guys finish last as they say
But then id batter up the right hand lane of a roundabout if the left one was queued, go right round and then take the original left exit past everyone queuing patiently so maybe im not the best one to comment on “etiquette”! :laughing:
But sod them I say. You’ve been out all week, obviously had a balls up on Friday to have to spend another night out and some ■■■■ in a car decides to play traffic marshall to prolong your week and shorten your time at home? ■■■■ 'im

+1 exactly the same as robroy…avoiding a dangerous driver is an emergency,just the reason they built hard shoulders…sometimes if im in no hurry I might wait in a lane titwatching…if the “must make boat” button is on,then its right up to the cones…look for a woman driver,then take her front end off…in all my years of driving,ive never had a woman block me out like most of the guys do…they cant make up their mind quick enough to work out who is right or wrong,plus I think that even if she is 100% blameless,then when she gets home,her man will tear her a new one for wrecking the car anyway…it never has failed me yet… :wink:
though if you want to know exactly what would be the absoloute correct procedure in such situations,why don’t you just ask conor, and post the reply.that way we will all no without any shadow of doubt exactly how to behave approaching lane closures on motorways if you are a truly professional driver…saves a lot of time and effort with everyone else having an opinon. :confused:

you might be big enough too bully some car driver into letting you in , but I can assure you it won’t work with me :exclamation: :exclamation: bring it on :exclamation: :smiling_imp:

Daytrunker:

robroy:
It’s a bit like these ‘Smart’ stretches where it goes into 4 lanes, and very few move over turning it from a 4 lane stretch to a 3 lane (blocked) stretch, or when the hard shoulder is opened up, many are reluctant to use it for some obscure reason.

Usually get this coming down the M6 from Cannock to j10 it’s on the matrix “congestion use hard shoulder” 60mph limit but the HS is empty and traffic tootling along so its straight down the hard shoulder thank you very much get some funny looks but tough if they can’t read signs will have the HS to my self sometimes lol :smiley:

Couldn’t agree more about this stretch,I’m sure that there must be an “ACHTUNG MINEN” sign on the HS that I’m missing,that the car drivers are able to see :laughing: :laughing:

Best way is to take no notice of the cones and make a few fly through the air… EVERYONE gets outa yer way then, including the road workers.

The-Snowman:
Id have done exactly the same Rob. In slow moving traffic its dog eat dog. Nice guys finish last as they say
But then id batter up the right hand lane of a roundabout if the left one was queued, go right round and then take the original left exit past everyone queuing patiently so maybe im not the best one to comment on “etiquette”! :laughing:
But sod them I say. You’ve been out all week, obviously had a balls up on Friday to have to spend another night out and some [zb] in a car decides to play traffic marshall to prolong your week and shorten your time at home? [zb] 'im

Cheers for that Snowman, I also am guilty of the roundabout move :blush: …(I aint doing myself any favours on this thread am I :smiley: , admitting to being in a rush, doing an illegal move, and ■■■■■■■ people off at roundabouts. :smiley: )
As for being out on a Fri night, I am out every Fri as I do Tues to Sat lunch/tea time, depending how I get on with and how many drops I have had down the South West, but I still prefer an early as poss finish, even if I am on overtime rate.

robroy:
As for being out on a Fri night, I am out every Fri as I do Tues to Sat lunch/tea time, depending how I get on with and how many drops I have had down the South West, but I still prefer an early as poss finish, even if I am on overtime rate.

Ah ok
Still, ■■■■ 'im anyway. You’ve been out all week and on way home and cause hes sat in a queue he thinks he can dictate that no one else is allowed to think outside the box? ■■■■■■

I’d have put on my hi viz and hard hat and did what you did.

I’m just going to check out You Tube for the Dash Cam videos and I’ll be back to let you know if it was appropriate to open up the forth lane.

You lot would love me, I let anyone in. Although I must confess I am guilty of travelling further down a closed lane than is socially acceptable and have breached queuing etiquette on more than one occasion.

Right lane to turn left doing a full 360 to gain priority over the traffic I’ve just bodged I’m guilty of also.

Left lane at Barhill on A14 westbound then bodge in or get back on after junction a particular speciality.

Back in the day using the right lane at Catthorpe to join the M6 pre lane completion days.

Smart motorway solo flyers up lane one, yep a doozy.

dozy:
you might be big enough too bully some car driver into letting you in , but I can assure you it won’t work with me :exclamation: :exclamation: bring it on :exclamation: :smiling_imp:

Fancy that, I’d have never had you down as a selfish Road hog Dozy. Never. Never ever.

peterm:
Best way is to take no notice of the cones and make a few fly through the air… EVERYONE gets outa yer way then, including the road workers.

That’s the spirit! You’re my sort of driver!