lancpudn:
robroy:
lancpudn:
robroy:
Just seen on the news a lot of Brit and US ex military have shipped out to Ukraine to help.
Apparentlly when (if) the Brits get back they could be facing terrorism charges. 
Btw …please all you Commie sympathisers and anti US anti NATO,.anti West types on here don’t compare these guys with those so called ‘‘British’’ Muslim arse wipes who went out to fight with ISIS ffs.
No there will be nowt from me about our lads, I only have disdain for the psychopaths in Washington.
Maybe if it was not for the Notrth Atlantic Treaty Organisation and those ‘psychopaths in Washington’ we’d already be under the Hammer and Sickle…, and if you want to go a bit even further back, if it was not for the Americans we’d be sure as hell speaking German.
So imo we owe them quite a lot tbh, and should be grateful for their alliance, instead of slagging them off and championing the side that has no relavance nor similarity to our own heritage or way of life.
Praise em if you want but I wouldn’t give those warmongering [zb] the steam from my stools.
Obviously,.and I’m sure they’ll be devastated.
I only ‘’‘Praise em’’ out of gratitude,.and for the reasons that I have already laid out.
adam277:
Franglais:
A bit of a twist: Poland might be sending it’s MiG 29s to the US base at Ramstein in Germany. No guesses where they will end up of course.
theguardian.com/world/2022/ … us-ukraine
Other NATO countries with similar aircraft might follow suit.
As full NATO members Poland etc can expect to get support from other members to protect itself in case of attack from other countries.
I do worry that Russia can take this as a huge escalation.
Your mates in China could stop all this at the drop of a hat by condemning this invasion,.as most other countries have.
If Putin got the message that he would get no Chinese backing if he was mad enough to attack a nearby NATO state next, it may make him come to his senses.
Carryfast:
Which leaves the question where was Poland ( NATO ) getting the parts support, to maintain MIGs from.
Russia was supporting Ukrainian MiGs for a while, but Poland then took over some of it itself. Some of it was cannibalisation of older aircraft and some reports of parts obtained from “Irregular sources”.
Carryfast:
Which sill leaves the question as to why would Russia want to provide product support for NATO air power.
Because if NATO remain dependent on Russia for parts, then Russia can just turn the tap off and ground the NATO force without firing a shot.
NATO wasn’t even around until 1949 & bears no resemblance to the allied armies in WWII, It was set up for the cold war & to counter the now defunct Warsaw pact, Pretty sure Russia were on our side then but NATO saw them as future enemies & ostracized them, Who the hell gave the yanks the right back then to tell the Russians that they couldn’t expand into eastern Europe after what they achieved defeating the ■■■■’s?
They’ve got what they set out to do in 2014 in Ukraine & that was to install a puppet government & set a new cold war 2.0 going for the benefit of the war manufacturing machine that keeps Wall St happy. It’s morphed into uncle Sam’s personal bullying geopolitical warmongering private army with the European countries treated as vassal’s who have to kowtow to these psychopaths for fear of being sanctioned as they have politicized every aspect of life to get their own way. It’s about time the European countries grew a pair & told NATO to get stuffed as they’re the biggest threat to world peace period. But Murdoch et al & their brainwashing media empires would have you believe otherwise.
lancpudn:
NATO wasn’t even around until 1949 & bears no resemblance to the allied armies in WWII, It was set up for the cold war & to counter the now defunct Warsaw pact, Pretty sure Russia were on our side then but NATO saw them as future enemies & ostracized them, Who the hell gave the yanks the right back then to tell the Russians that they couldn’t expand into eastern Europe after what they achieved defeating the ■■■■’s?
They’ve got what they set out to do in 2014 in Ukraine & that was to install a puppet government & set a new cold war 2.0 going for the benefit of the war manufacturing machine that keeps Wall St happy. It’s morphed into uncle Sam’s personal bullying geopolitical warmongering private army with the European countries treated as vassal’s who have to kowtow to these psychopaths for fear of being sanctioned as they have politicized every aspect of life to get their own way. It’s about time the European countries grew a pair & told NATO to get stuffed as they’re the biggest threat to world peace period. But Murdoch et al & their brainwashing media empires would have you believe otherwise.
NATO rightly saw Russia as an enemy from 1945 with its actions in taking over the East Euro states and threatening WW3 over the Yugoslav takeover of Istria and the resulting massacre and exile of its Italian inhabitants.
Basically we joined the wrong side in 1914 and we should have helped Germany to smash the Russian scum then.
France as usual being part of the problem not the solution.
It is Russia sending an army into Ukraine, not the USA.
It is Russia launching missiles, and shelling cities and civilian refugees.
The Red Cross has just described the conditions in Mariupol as “Apocalyptic”.
Whatever the faults of the US and NATO, they are tiny compared to this naked aggression and land grab.
It isn`t in the long term interest of the Russian people, but was necessary to support Putin and his spending on arms.
Russia under Putin spends more GDP on defense than the USA.
Because the USA is a much bigger economy, the total amount is greater, but Russians are poorer because of the higher proportion of a smaller economy Putin gives to the military.
Franglais:
It is Russia sending an army into Ukraine, not the USA.
It is Russia launching missiles, and shelling cities and civilian refugees.
The Red Cross has just described the conditions in Mariupol as “Apocalyptic”.
Whatever the faults of the US and NATO, they are tiny compared to this naked aggression and land grab.
It isn`t in the long term interest of the Russian people, but was necessary to support Putin and his spending on arms.
Russia under Putin spends more GDP on defense than the USA.
Because the USA is a much bigger economy, the total amount is greater, but Russians are poorer because of the higher proportion of a smaller economy Putin gives to the military.
If it wasn’t for NATO constantly provoking Russia there would have been NO invasion, 100% the fault of NATO.
lancpudn:
NATO wasn’t even around until 1949 & bears no resemblance to the allied armies in WWII, It was set up for the cold war & to counter the now defunct Warsaw pact, Pretty sure Russia were on our side then but NATO saw them as future enemies & ostracized them, Who the hell gave the yanks the right back then to tell the Russians that they couldn’t expand into eastern Europe after what they achieved defeating the ■■■■’s?
They’ve got what they set out to do in 2014 in Ukraine & that was to install a puppet government & set a new cold war 2.0 going for the benefit of the war manufacturing machine that keeps Wall St happy. It’s morphed into uncle Sam’s personal bullying geopolitical warmongering private army with the European countries treated as vassal’s who have to kowtow to these psychopaths for fear of being sanctioned as they have politicized every aspect of life to get their own way. It’s about time the European countries grew a pair & told NATO to get stuffed as they’re the biggest threat to world peace period. But Murdoch et al & their brainwashing media empires would have you believe otherwise.
Ok mate, your hatred of the US and NATO is obviously deep seated, so nothing I can say will ever change your mind.
Apart from that 2 random drivers arguing about it is not going to change,.affect nor solve anything. 
In the closing days of WW2 General Patton approached Pres Eisenower telling him they should re mobilise the captured German forces prisoners, of which there were many crack troops among them, and re.arm them to join the Western Allies to go after the Russians to save a lot of trouble in the future (Stalin was an even bigger ■■■■ than Putin) …how right he was.
Put it this way mate if there were only 2 choices of allegiance, to either become the 51st state of the US or go with the corrupt shysters on the European ■■■■ Union gravy train, I’d go with America every time
lancpudn:
If it wasn’t for NATO constantly provoking Russia there would have been NO invasion, 100% the fault of NATO.
Russia will always be an enemy state.
But totally agree it was the change in NATO strategy from MAD to containment which is 100% to blame for this debacle.Not helped by East Euro states with an agenda and old scores to settle v Russia.
So what does NATO do let’s pour weapons into Ukraine and more conventional forces into Poland etc in response to Russia’s threat of a nuke strike on UK.Thatll fix it.
robroy:
lancpudn:
NATO wasn’t even around until 1949 & bears no resemblance to the allied armies in WWII, It was set up for the cold war & to counter the now defunct Warsaw pact, Pretty sure Russia were on our side then but NATO saw them as future enemies & ostracized them, Who the hell gave the yanks the right back then to tell the Russians that they couldn’t expand into eastern Europe after what they achieved defeating the ■■■■’s?
They’ve got what they set out to do in 2014 in Ukraine & that was to install a puppet government & set a new cold war 2.0 going for the benefit of the war manufacturing machine that keeps Wall St happy. It’s morphed into uncle Sam’s personal bullying geopolitical warmongering private army with the European countries treated as vassal’s who have to kowtow to these psychopaths for fear of being sanctioned as they have politicized every aspect of life to get their own way. It’s about time the European countries grew a pair & told NATO to get stuffed as they’re the biggest threat to world peace period. But Murdoch et al & their brainwashing media empires would have you believe otherwise.
Ok mate, your hatred of the US and NATO is obviously deep seated, so nothing I can say will ever change your mind.
Apart from that 2 random drivers arguing about it is not going to change,.affect nor solve anything.
In the closing days of WW2 General Patton approached Pres Eisenower telling him they should re mobilise the captured German forces prisoners, of which there were many crack troops among them, and re.arm them to join the Western Allies to go after the Russians to save a lot of trouble in the future (Stalin was an even bigger [zb] than Putin) …how right he was.
Put it this way mate if there were only 2 choices of allegiance, to either become the 51st state of the US or go with the corrupt shysters on the European [zb] Union gravy train, I’d go with America every time
Again Today’s version of NATO has bugger all to do with what happened in WWII. Get out of the governments propaganda rabbit hole & take the red pill instead of the governments blue sheeple pill.
the nodding donkey:
robroy:
lancpudn:
robroy:
Just seen on the news a lot of Brit and US ex military have shipped out to Ukraine to help.
Apparentlly when (if) the Brits get back they could be facing terrorism charges.
Btw …please all you Commie sympathisers and anti US anti NATO,.anti West types on here don’t compare these guys with those so called ‘‘British’’ Muslim arse wipes who went out to fight with ISIS ffs.
No there will be nowt from me about our lads, I only have disdain for the psychopaths in Washington.
Maybe if it was not for the Notrth Atlantic Treaty Organisation and those ‘psychopaths in Washington’ we’d already be under the Hammer and Sickle…, and if you want to go a bit even further back, if it was not for the Americans we’d be sure as hell speaking German.
So imo we owe them quite a lot tbh, and should be grateful for their alliance, instead of slagging them off and championing the side that has no relavance nor similarity to our own heritage or way of life.
You are aware that the Americans were happy to not join the Brits in 1939,1940, or indeed 1941, because they were happy to sell their equipment to the Germans… it wasn’t until the unthinkable happened, and the Japanese bombed the American fleet, that our “allies”, actually took sides…
Every conflict is only decided once its done…
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter…
I’m aware that Roosavelt aided a lot of Germany’s enemies around 39 to.41, including Brirain with arms, which went on to be the ‘Lend Lease’ system.
I’m aware his advisors tried to talk him out of selling cheap 50 or so warships to Britain, saying they would end up in Germany after ‘Britain was defeated in 1940’ following the Dunkirk evacuation.
I’m aware that we never paid for those ships as we could not afford it, so they essentially gifted them under other guises, and I’m aware that Churchill cemented the first stages of a special alliance with the US,.which has been prevalent (and successfull) ever since.
Being a Dutchman,ND you should ask your Grandparents what they thought of the UK US alliance abd liberation in comparison to ■■■■ occupation, with the types of policies that went on there, that Russia themselves are no strangers to using.
lancpudn:
robroy:
lancpudn:
NATO wasn’t even around until 1949 & bears no resemblance to the allied armies in WWII, It was set up for the cold war & to counter the now defunct Warsaw pact, Pretty sure Russia were on our side then but NATO saw them as future enemies & ostracized them, Who the hell gave the yanks the right back then to tell the Russians that they couldn’t expand into eastern Europe after what they achieved defeating the ■■■■’s?
They’ve got what they set out to do in 2014 in Ukraine & that was to install a puppet government & set a new cold war 2.0 going for the benefit of the war manufacturing machine that keeps Wall St happy. It’s morphed into uncle Sam’s personal bullying geopolitical warmongering private army with the European countries treated as vassal’s who have to kowtow to these psychopaths for fear of being sanctioned as they have politicized every aspect of life to get their own way. It’s about time the European countries grew a pair & told NATO to get stuffed as they’re the biggest threat to world peace period. But Murdoch et al & their brainwashing media empires would have you believe otherwise.
Ok mate, your hatred of the US and NATO is obviously deep seated, so nothing I can say will ever change your mind.
Apart from that 2 random drivers arguing about it is not going to change,.affect nor solve anything.
In the closing days of WW2 General Patton approached Pres Eisenower telling him they should re mobilise the captured German forces prisoners, of which there were many crack troops among them, and re.arm them to join the Western Allies to go after the Russians to save a lot of trouble in the future (Stalin was an even bigger [zb] than Putin) …how right he was.
Put it this way mate if there were only 2 choices of allegiance, to either become the 51st state of the US or go with the corrupt shysters on the European [zb] Union gravy train, I’d go with America every time
Again Today’s version of NATO has bugger all to do with what happened in WWII. Get out of the governments propaganda rabbit hole & take the red pill instead of the governments blue sheeple pill.
Hmmmm maybe it ain’t me that has fell for propaganda, well certainly not of the Left wing variety anyhow.
Btw EVERY aspect of politics and political (and social) history has EVERYTHING to do with what happened during and after WW2. 
What the heck has this got to do with the warmongering version of NATO we’ve got today? And Incidentally I have no hatred of 99% of American people just the psychopathic tools in charge of that country, I have numerous friends across the states I’m in contact with on a weekly basis & all are aware of their corrupt governments lying from the Iraq murderous debacle to Ukraine’s catastrophe & everywhere in between.
On a side note a serving soldier in the Coldstream Guards has gone awol,.last seen buying a ticket to Poland presumably to fight with the Ukranian resistance fighters.
The ■■■■ could hit the fan and give Putin a lot of propaganda if a serving Britisih soldier is caught.
Even if it ain’t Govt backed, Putin is going to say it is.
lancpudn:
What the heck has this got to do with the warmongering version of NATO we’ve got today? And Incidentally I have no hatred of 99% of American people just the psychopathic tools in charge of that country, I have numerous friends across the states I’m in contact with on a weekly basis & all are aware of their corrupt governments lying from the Iraq murderous debacle to Ukraine’s catastrophe & everywhere in between.
Mate…it’s only warmongerng by YOUR opinion,.(and evidently the opinions of your mates)
So where are we supposed to go with this argument exactly■■?
I’ve already stated that it is point less for the reasons I pointed out.
You have given your pov as I have given mine.
So unless you want a 3 page argument of ‘‘Yes it is’’/No it isn’t’ we should maybe just agree to differ.
robroy:
lancpudn:
What the heck has this got to do with the warmongering version of NATO we’ve got today? And Incidentally I have no hatred of 99% of American people just the psychopathic tools in charge of that country, I have numerous friends across the states I’m in contact with on a weekly basis & all are aware of their corrupt governments lying from the Iraq murderous debacle to Ukraine’s catastrophe & everywhere in between.
Mate…it’s only warmongerng by YOUR opinion,.(and evidently the opinions of your mates)
So where are we supposed to go with this argument exactly■■?
I’ve already stated that it is point less for the reasons I pointed out.
You have given your pov as I have given mine.
So unless you want a 3 page argument of ‘‘Yes it is’’/No it isn’t’ we should maybe just agree to differ.
Well your doing a good job of keeping it going around in circles, We’re going to need a collie dog in here shortly to round all the sheeple up.
lancpudn:
robroy:
lancpudn:
What the heck has this got to do with the warmongering version of NATO we’ve got today? And Incidentally I have no hatred of 99% of American people just the psychopathic tools in charge of that country, I have numerous friends across the states I’m in contact with on a weekly basis & all are aware of their corrupt governments lying from the Iraq murderous debacle to Ukraine’s catastrophe & everywhere in between.
Mate…it’s only warmongerng by YOUR opinion,.(and evidently the opinions of your mates)
So where are we supposed to go with this argument exactly■■?
I’ve already stated that it is point less for the reasons I pointed out.
You have given your pov as I have given mine.
So unless you want a 3 page argument of ‘‘Yes it is’’/No it isn’t’ we should maybe just agree to differ.
Well your doing a good job of keeping it going around in circles, We’re going to need a collie dog in here shortly to round all the sheeple up.
Yeh cheers you’re a very comedic man. 
As for going around in circles, I think you’ll find that my views and opinions have been consistent all through the thread, but vastly different to yours.
Just because somebody has an opinion which also happens to be populist, (incidentally that has no bearing on it from my pov) it does not make them ‘‘sheeple’’ by the way, …as amusing as that is.
robroy:
Btw EVERY aspect of politics and political (and social) history has EVERYTHING to do with what happened during and after WW2.
More like WW1.
We joined the wrong side and fought a natural ally in alliance with a natural enemy.
Stalin and Hitler and Mao were the result.
This debacle is the exception that proves the rule being all about NATOs change in strategy from MAD to Containment because the US and UK have gone flaky on the use of nukes and unfortunately Ukraine and other East European states have bought it.
The truth is the US isn’t up for an MAD exchange and Russia and China know it.
robroy:
On a side note a serving soldier in the Coldstream Guards has gone awol,.last seen buying a ticket to Poland presumably to fight with the Ukranian resistance fighters.
The [zb] could hit the fan and give Putin a lot of propaganda if a serving Britisih soldier is caught.
Even if it ain’t Govt backed, Putin is going to say it is.
Indeed I read about that as well.
Very dangerous situation.
A lot of people trying go to Ukraine which is worrying if they get caught by the Russians.
youtube.com/watch?v=yIXRMP97m0Y
Also, if your 60 maybe consider sitting this war out lol. I seen quite a lot of older / unfit guys trying join the fight. Heck maybe they were all squaddies back in the day. But there is reason war is a young mans game. Past a certain age your body takes longer to heal and you get hurt easier.
Also I see a lot of people that are of mixed ethnicity trying to join the war.
Ukraine is a racist country in comparison to our own. You just have to remind yourself of the England vs Ukraine controversy in football.
inews.co.uk/news/world/ukraine- … er-1489266
I do not think I would feel comfortable potentially fighting alongside ultranationalists. (Yea, not all Ukrainians are racist before I get corrected).
adam277:
I do not think I would feel comfortable potentially fighting alongside ultranationalists. (Yea, not all Ukrainians are racist before I get corrected).
Basically you’re either Nationalist or open borders anti nation state.
Nazis are obviously anti nation state Socialists wanting to spread their version of Socialist ideology just like their Communist internal opposition.
If it was about supposed denazification of Ukraine then Russia obviously wouldn’t be moaning about NATO expansionism and threatening us with nukes.
While if someone threatens me with a nukes I want to see my government responding to that threat in kind.
Not talking bs about meeting that threat with boots on the ground regardless of who is actually wearing those boots.