I take my hats of to these riders doing the I.O.M tracks , but after 5 deaths already and a father and son the latest fatalities and what I’ve read the father worked as a HGV driver at Cooper Buckley , it just seems such a waste of life, the TT must surely be one of the most dangerous racers in the world, R.I.P.
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I know what you mean, racing fatalities are part and parcel of road racing and the TT more so than other races, though having a father and son lost in the same incident, with the son being at his first year at the TT as a competitor I think, really hammers home the risks they take.
I love racing, cars and bikes, but the TT races are madness. Wholly unnecessary risks taken. They are mad. Just my opinion.
The fact is like all Motorsport crashing isn’t the aim it’s just a collateral risk.
As opposed to boxing where the aim of the sport is to punch the opponent senseless.
The risks of a worse outcome ( of a crash ) are obviously higher in road racing without the run off areas and barriers of purpose made circuits.Also the lose lose of the zero crash protection of motorcycles v cars.
Either way the rewards of road racing, when it goes right, for both spectators and participants outweigh the risks.The Silver State Classic Challenge and Carerra Pan-Americana and Tasmania Road Race and the TT are all the best examples of the breed.While Le Man’s is now a castrated result of what happens when the bleeding hearts get their way.
The thing is the guys who do this, as in any potentially dangerous sport, thrive on this stuff, they go into races fully understanding, and also fully up for the risks.
They know the score but they still do it, so that should be enough to ignore the calls on the news last night to …ban the sport. 
(The answer to every ■■■■ thing in this country that does not compute with the usual suspects )
Who the hell is anybody,.and what right do they have to ban something that they do not nor never will understand, depriving those that do , their way of life.
That father and son team death was a tragedy, but you can sure as hell bet that not only did they understand the risks, but that they would do the same thing again, given the chance, in terms of entering races.
RIP to the 2 riders killed anyway.
robroy:
The thing is the guys who do this, as in any potentially dangerous sport, thrive on this stuff, they go into races fully understanding, and also fully up for the risks.They know the score but they still do it, so that should be enough to ignore the calls on the news last night to …ban the sport.
Who the hell is anybody,.and what right do they have to ban something that they do not nor never will understand, depriving those that do , their way of life.
That father and son team death was a tragedy, but you can sure as hell bet that not only did they understand the risks, but that they would do the same thing again, given the chance, in terms of entering races.
RIP to the 2 riders killed anyway.
I had not heard about a suggested ban. I believe any more talk of this needs opposing.
The Swiss banned racing back in the 1955 following a bad accident at Le Mans (on this weekend incidentally). I believe it was a knee-jerk reaction but it is still the law 50+ years later. Despite the amazing increases in safety standards and equipment. Ironically there is a Swiss-based team in Formula 1 but they cannot race at home!
As you say what right do others have to interfere with free choice?
The IoM TT races have had 5 deaths this year. Not just the father/son team.
It was quite right for the FIM to take these races off the World Championship roster back in 1976, as they will never be as safe as other races on dedicated permanent circuits.
I`m not in favour of a total ban: those who choose to ride or race there are doing so freely. However, there are already plenty of other cases where we have laws against free choice. Seat-belts, crash helmets, principally affect the health of one person, yet we have laws about them.
Franglais:
The IoM TT races have had 5 deaths this year. Not just the father/son team.It was quite right for the FIM to take these races off the World Championship roster back in 1976, as they will never be as safe as other races on dedicated permanent circuits.
I`m not in favour of a total ban: those who choose to ride or race there are doing so freely. However, there are already plenty of other cases where we have laws against free choice. Seat-belts, crash helmets, principally affect the health of one person, yet we have laws about them.
Ahh, laws. My view on laws is that we only need laws that stop me hurting or causing prejudice to another, and another doing that to me. Hurting being in the largest possible sense, not just physically of course.
Crash helmet laws in the UK have one saving grace. That is possible reduction of taxpayer funded costs to the NHS making good the damage suffered in an accident. If, however, a rider had private health insurance that would pick up all costs why should the rider be obliged to wear one?
Franglais:
I`m not in favour of a total ban: those who choose to ride or race there are doing so freely. However, there are already plenty of other cases where we have laws against free choice. Seat-belts, crash helmets, principally affect the health of one person, yet we have laws about them.
Your first eight words say one thing, yet your subsequent words suggest that you actually think otherwise. I find it hard to believe the first eight.
the maoster:
Franglais:
I`m not in favour of a total ban: those who choose to ride or race there are doing so freely. However, there are already plenty of other cases where we have laws against free choice. Seat-belts, crash helmets, principally affect the health of one person, yet we have laws about them.Your first eight words say one thing, yet your subsequent words suggest that you actually think otherwise. I find it hard to believe the first eight.
France the land of strictly enforced 80 mph speed limits on roads designed and good for
120 mph + and which effectively traffic calmed the Le Man’s circuit and neutered the cars entering it.Nuf said.
Franglais:
It was quite right for the FIM to take these races off the World Championship roster back in 1976, as they will never be as safe as other races on dedicated permanent circuits.
Why was it ‘‘quite right’’?
If they were forcing people to race (I know that’s ridiculous but go with it) yeh it would be quite right.
But again , the participants fully understood the risks and were more than willing to take them,.and enjoying the experiences of doing so,.so much they come back for more year after year.
Akso, the spectators rightly or wrongly like to see crashes, why do you think they make a bee line for dodgy corners,.chicanes and the like… ok, not an attractive trait, but that’s one of the dark sides of human nature.
If things that are risky or a bit uncomfortable for some to think about,.and totally alien in their world, does that give them carte blanche to ban stuff?
You appear to be (not surprisingly btw ) a fan of the ‘Nanny State’’ Frangers.
Franglais:
The IoM TT races have had 5 deaths this year. Not just the father/son team.It was quite right for the FIM to take these races off the World Championship roster back in 1976, as they will never be as safe as other races on dedicated permanent circuits.
I`m not in favour of a total ban: those who choose to ride or race there are doing so freely. However, there are already plenty of other cases where we have laws against free choice. Seat-belts, crash helmets, principally affect the health of one person, yet we have laws about them.
I did mention 5 deaths.
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rearaxle:
Franglais:
The IoM TT races have had 5 deaths this year. Not just the father/son team.It was quite right for the FIM to take these races off the World Championship roster back in 1976, as they will never be as safe as other races on dedicated permanent circuits.
I`m not in favour of a total ban: those who choose to ride or race there are doing so freely. However, there are already plenty of other cases where we have laws against free choice. Seat-belts, crash helmets, principally affect the health of one person, yet we have laws about them.
I did mention 5 deaths.
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You did. I didn`t quote you.
robroy:
RIP to the 2 riders killed anyway.
robroy:
Why was it ‘‘quite right’’?
If they were forcing people to race (I know that’s ridiculous but go with it) yeh it would be quite right.
Pre `76 the FIM World Championships counted points fro, the IoM races. Professional team riders were being pressured to ride there. That is why I believe they were right to stop counting those points and take pressure of those riders who thought the IoM course is simply too extreme.
robroy:
Akso, the spectators rightly or wrongly like to see crashes, why do you think they make a bee line for dodgy corners,.chicanes and the like… ok, not an attractive trait, but that’s one of the dark sides of human nature.
Those who like bike racing like to see obstacles being overcome. A bike going fast along a perfectly flat and level road doesn`t give much interest to rider nor spectator.
robroy:
If things that are risky or a bit uncomfortable for some to think about,.and totally alien in their world, does that give them carte blanche to ban stuff?
Franglais:
I`m not in favour of a total ban
the maoster:
Franglais:
I`m not in favour of a total ban: those who choose to ride or race there are doing so freely. However, there are already plenty of other cases where we have laws against free choice. Seat-belts, crash helmets, principally affect the health of one person, yet we have laws about them.Your first eight words say one thing, yet your subsequent words suggest that you actually think otherwise. I find it hard to believe the first eight.
My first words state clearly my own beliefs.
The rest acknowledges that there are IMHO, valid counter arguments.
“I’m not in favour of a total ban”. Perhaps a partial ban or more regulation then? The problem is we have hordes of (presumably) well intentioned people who seem hell bent on saving people from themselves by virtue of restricting or banning things that may result in injury or harm.
You’re clearly an intelligent and literate guy Franglais but I feel that your very intelligence has created a kind of one track mind or blind spot if you like wherein you presume to know what’s best for others. Your intentions however well meaning end up having a negative effect if followed through.
I’m obviously in no way comparing you to the Chinese government or indeed any other such socialist paradise but the similarities are that they too restrict personal freedoms in the mistaken belief that they know best.
Unless you are or have been actively engaged in something like the TT whether as a competitor, official or spectator then your blind spot prevents you from appreciating the sheer passion involved in the event. Nobody holds a gun to anyones head and nobody has the right to call for restrictions.
Any sporting death is of course a tragedy and my thoughts go to the families of the five who died, but every single family member will as one say “he died doing what he loved”, so who are you, me or anyone else to take that away?
He who risks nothing achieves nothing.
the maoster:
“I’m not in favour of a total ban”. Perhaps a partial ban or more regulation then? The problem is we have hordes of (presumably) well intentioned people who seem hell bent on saving people from themselves by virtue of restricting or banning things that may result in injury or harm.You’re clearly an intelligent and literate guy Franglais but I feel that your very intelligence has created a kind of one track mind or blind spot if you like wherein you presume to know what’s best for others. Your intentions however well meaning end up having a negative effect if followed through.
I’m obviously in no way comparing you to the Chinese government or indeed any other such socialist paradise but the similarities are that they too restrict personal freedoms in the mistaken belief that they know best.
Unless you are or have been actively engaged in something like the TT whether as a competitor, official or spectator then your blind spot prevents you from appreciating the sheer passion involved in the event. Nobody holds a gun to anyones head and nobody has the right to call for restrictions.
Any sporting death is of course a tragedy and my thoughts go to the families of the five who died, but every single family member will as one say “he died doing what he loved”, so who are you, me or anyone else to take that away?
He who risks nothing achieves nothing.
There arent any good answers to this. It is a matter of degree, not binary right/wrong. If 5 die in a week maybe there is need for more regulation? I dont know. I suspect it needs looking at.
I too, see the tensions between doing what is a risk, and what is safe… but is as boring as anything.
Life that is totally without risk is merely existence for most of us.
“nobody has the right to call for restrictions”
The sport does have rules and regs. The FIM and ACU do make rules about what is and isn`t acceptable risk. Or would you do away with all safety regulations? Allow tracksuits and baseball caps?
Should anyone be allowed to race like that?
It is a question of degree of risk, not banning everything with any risk at all, I certainly am not for that.
Ive currently got an 850 Yamaha and it certainly does blow the cobwebs away. I dont feel the need to scratch the footpegs as I once did, but I still know that feeling. I`m not about stopping others from that joy.
At the end of the day they’ve in most cases left wife’s / kids / family behind , I know they say the died doing what they loved doing , but now that young son/ daughter will grow up not knowing a dad who loved them
I love motorbikes / I love cars / I love Bristol rovers but I love my daughter more .
I know racing a motorbike is a risk at any track , but the Isle of Man is another level , didn’t vr once take a look and said no chance ,
I think in this case riders need saving from themselves , limit sped at a guess , think original laps were 38 mph , now 130 mph av ( or that’s what they said on tt programme , that ZB shifting , taking account you’ve a stone wall to hit if it all goes wrong
Actually I’d ban it , the thought of some little mite growing up without her dad just doesn’t feel right to me ,
I’ve owned fireblade / r1 & have of late tried a few newer versions , maybe I’m older but these new ones are rockets , I’d love one , but I’d end up dead , way beyond my capabilities , and family comes first