as it say,ive been talkin to a few drivers that av been pulled by vosa & asked to remove items in window inc table’s. ive just found this on flee-bay & was wondering if you could fit one of these with out avin to remove if i got pulled by vosa.
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? … K:MEWAX:IT
andy.
Got pulled and i have the large driver to passenger table and told The following I have a front mirror which compensates for my lost view due to my table been fitted. A driver got pulled salisbury and warned to remove as he did not have a front mirrow. A driver got pulled immingham with front mirror and told off. I chance it and hope to got the VOSA bloke is decent.
164480:
as it say,ive been talkin to a few drivers that av been pulled by vosa & asked to remove items in window inc table’s. ive just found this on flee-bay & was wondering if you could fit one of these with out avin to remove if i got pulled by vosa.
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? … K:MEWAX:ITandy.
Doesn’t matter how transparent it is to begin with, once it’s had a load of crap piled on it you aint gonna see through it. 
i got pulled by vosa 2 weeks ago and i have a middle table and the passenger one and they didn’t bat an eyelid at them(not got anything like kettles and what not on them)so that might of been why
!(http://i.ebayimg.com/13/!Bd5vh2w!2k~$(KGrHqEH-CUErez1tw,lBK7C5o1JgQ~~_3.JPG)
If nothing is on it - like that screen which is in the wiper area - then I cannot see an issue as it is transparent…
Errr… ROG, perhaps you’ve missed the fact that you can’t see through the table in that pic, because what you’re seeing is actually a reflection.
IMHO, it looks to me that there is an oblong area of intrusion into the swept area of the windscreen, then of course there’s the question of the sat-nav.
We may or may not agree with it, and we all get to make our choices, but the law is fairly clear on the subject. 
dieseldave:
Errr… ROG, perhaps you’ve missed the fact that you can’t see through the table in that pic, because what you’re seeing is actually a reflection.
I might have you there - the E-bay site states transparent
ROG:
dieseldave:
Errr… ROG, perhaps you’ve missed the fact that you can’t see through the table in that pic, because what you’re seeing is actually a reflection.I might have you there - the E-bay site states transparent
Maybe it does ROG, but that wasn’t my point… it’s still a reflection, so I’d say that it appears to intrude into the swept area of the windscreen.
Let’s not forget this:
ROG:
I cannot see an issue as it is transparent
Do the rules for intrusions into the swept area mention that it’s ok if the intrusion is transparent ?
Is there an exemption for a transparent intrusion into the swept area ?
Does this exemption say whether the transparent intrusion may also be reflective ?
Now imagine the sun shining from the left onto that table in the pic… would the driver being dazzled be a safety issue ?
It says Ty-Phoo on buses, but they don’t sell tea. 
</flippant mode>
Translation: It may well state “transparent” and it may well actually be transparent, but that may not necessarily be enough to make it legal.
The acid test is a pull by VOSA, but would anybody like to risk a boss’ reaction to a possible PG9 or an FPN, even if the PG9 were cleared 2mins after it was issued ?
A PG9 still shows as a PG9 on an operator’s record at ‘O’ licence review even if cleared 2mins after issue.
All I’m saying is that you appear to be inventing a non-existent exemption and thereby possibly causing confusion to a law that’s fairly clearly written.
I’ll already accept that I may be right or wrong in what I’ve written above, but you may also have to accept the same, because whether (or not) you can see an issue with it might not be relevant and won’t affect the legality of the table one way or the other.
I reckon the only way to see if it is reflective when actually in the driving seat is to be there and see for ones self.
Perhaps another member has had experience of this type of tray and can tell us…
Its too bloody dear anyway!
Koop:
‘… Its too bloody dear anyway!..’
And gay
ROG:
I reckon the only way to see if it is reflective when actually in the driving seat is to be there and see for ones self.Perhaps another member has had experience of this type of tray and can tell us…
OMG ROG, It’s so obviously reflective, because your picture clearly shows that it is.
Whether the driver is sitting in the driving seat or in the caff having a brew won’t alter that fact.
IMHO it’s an intrusion into the swept area, and that’s the real issue here, so how are we progressing on the exemption for ‘transparent’ ?
To my way of thinking, the fact that the table is reflective simply adds to the potential danger that the table creates, if left in that position whilst the vehicle is in motion.
As for other members’ opinions, would any number of opinions alter the legality of the table ?
The answer to this one should be fairly simple… let’s ask geebee45 to read this topic and tell us what action would be taken if he discovered such a table in such a situation. That answer might save some grief for somebody along with saving them the cost of the table if it’s deemed to be illegal.
Looking at the enlarged pics in the link it does not always show a reflection - I reckon it’s to do at what angle it is viewed from.
dieseldave:
ROG:
I reckon the only way to see if it is reflective when actually in the driving seat is to be there and see for ones self.Perhaps another member has had experience of this type of tray and can tell us…
Whether the driver is sitting in the driving seat or in the caff having a brew won’t alter that fact.
IMHO it’s an intrusion into the swept area, and that’s the real issue here, so how are we progressing on the exemption for ‘transparent’ ?
To my way of thinking, the fact that the table is reflective simply adds to the potential danger that the table creates, if left in that position whilst the vehicle is in motion.As for other members’ opinions, would any number of opinions alter the legality of the table ?
The answer to this one should be fairly simple… let’s ask geebee45 to read this topic and tell us what action would be taken if he discovered such a table in such a situation. That answer might save some grief for somebody along with saving them the cost of the table if it’s deemed to be illegal.
We had this discussion last time someone posted about these tables on here.
If you are going to take the letter of the law regarding anything in the swept area’s of the wipers, then you need to remove the steering wheel and instrument binnicle out of the Man TGA
ROG:
Looking at the enlarged pics in the link it does not always show a reflection - I reckon it’s to do at what angle it is viewed from.
Every single one of those pics, taken from the inside, shows a reflection. You can see patches of sky or trees in a lot of them and those which don’t show sky and trees reflect the grass. It’s clearly a reflection of the grass and not the grass seen through the table.
Oh yeah, the last picture with the blue lights is just wrong on so many levels.
talking about reflection what about them yellow jackets with the strips on them you have to wear in quarries and sites they reflect off the windscreen and just about bloody blind you ,before you ave a go i know take it off when driving on public highway.
ROG:
Looking at the enlarged pics in the link it does not always show a reflection - I reckon it’s to do at what angle it is viewed from.
Yes ROG, I completely agree, but I think your point (although true and correct) is irrelevant.
A green bus just went past my house (that’s also true and correct) but it’s got nothing to do with the price of fish and is therefore irrelevant to proving or disproving your or my points.
Surely as an IAM Senior Observer, you can see that a potential danger is as real as one that’s staring you in the face?
Surely you can see that a reflective table poses a glare/dazzle risk if the sun shines through the windscreen from the left?
That straight ‘safety’ issue is quite apart from the unresolved issue of whether that table legally counts as an intrusion into the swept area of the windscreen.
What’s this? … I think I can hear the jury returning… no exemption for a transparent intrusion could be found, so… no matter how many other ideas to deflect attention from the real issue that you come up with, we’ll keep coming back to whether that table counts as an intrusion into the swept area. Based on the pic YOU posted, my own opinion is that it does count as an intrusion. There ya go, I’ve nailed my colours to the mast but I am always prepared to be proved wrong.
Have I caught myself a wriggling ROGfish ?
Only time will tell, but please watch the next gripping episode for more turns than a corkscrew and to see whether my fishing line can hold the weight of a ROGfish.
Come on now folks, wouldn’t you admit that this far better than watching Emmerdale 
It’s probably no more dangerous than a highly polished dash BUT as I said before - would need to be driving a vehicle with one fitted to know for sure.
jus bein devils advocate ere but if the swept area has to be kept cleared then wot bout wen u drop sunvisor inside or even the visor outside an also wot is the poit of the mirror in the corner then ■■?
ROG:
It’s probably no more dangerous than a highly polished dash BUT as I said before - would need to be driving a vehicle with one fitted to know for sure.
Sorry ROG, but I still think you’re on the wrong track, cos even that comment doesn’t cut it I’m afraid…
That wasn’t a bad body swerve, but you didn’t get past the defence… (or off the hook 
) cos the only view that counts is whether, in an officer’s opinion, the table counts as an intrusion.
If there’s an offence:
On a bad day, you would get a PG9 or an FPN.
On a good day you might simply be told to remove it, or be issued with either of the above depending on chemistry or attitude.
If it’s not an offence:
Either nothing is said, or you get told that it’s OK if you ask.
I honestly can’t see any other options, and as I’ve said many times on the forums, we shouldn’t second-guess what the enforcement authorities choose to do.
Whether any of us like it or not, the first issue is IF an offence is committed and discovered, then it’s up to an enforcement agency as to whether they choose to do something about it. It’s quite simple really.
){kind=link}