What’s the best way to go regarding cost effective and reliable servicing and maintenance, Mobile/Workshop or a dealer? Just trying to plan all costs out before investing in a used DAF CF75 and thought I would get some opinions and advice. Thank you.
I personally use a main dealer for inspections and most repairs, easy repairs I do myself. Trailer inspections and repairs I do myself. This is a reliable method of maintenance but not the cheapest option.
Any idea what the difference is in main dealer prices and using a local workshop? I get what your saying about reliability, I also worry about the quality of workmanship and parts do you think they would be of the same quality as a dealer or are they going to use inferior stuff to be cheaper?
Not all main dealers are as good as each other. I had a unit on R and M and it went in for some work and the 6 weekly. Had trouble getting the inspection report from them for the 6 weekly. When I really started to make a fuss, they admitted they had forgot to do it!!!
Have also had problems when they did a main annual service, didn’t do all the work stipulated by the manufacturer to be done on the service. Truck broke down 3 months later due to a filter issue. Complained to the dealer, and in fairness to them they covered the cost of the roadside callout themselves.
All I am saying, is ask around as to what your local main dealer is like. A local mechanic may be better as it is his reputation at stake. You can always ask him to use genuine parts, or even supply the parts yourself.
You have several choices: main dealer, Haulage company workshop, independent garage, mobile company, individual mobile and moonlighter. Having either used and worked in all I will try to give some idea of what each can be like and strengths and weaknesses.
Main dealer.
The image is of the latest equipment in a state of the art workshop with full factory technical and financial support, fully trained fitters who know every model in the range inside out and do so before the launch, a comprehensive stock of spares, 24 hour operation, top dollar labour rate, collection and delivery of your vehicle.
A lot will depend on how much support the dealer really receives from the manufacturer. Special tools and diagnostic equipment are horrendously expensive, get mis-used and or lost. Many dealers have to buy this stuff themselves so limit what they actually have.
Although the labour rate sounds very expensive the dealers frequently do not make very good profits from their workshop – the money comes from the vehicle and spare parts sales. You only have to look at the history of dealer franchises to see that there is a significant turnover of names. As vehicles become more technically advanced the situation is slowly improving as more and more operators turn to dealer servicing. The R&M contract has helped a lot, but it is the sales department which gains more than the workshop – sales get the profit - workshops the problems and the brickbats and are nailed to the floor by the factory over labour rates for this work.
However up to date the equipment is, it is only as good as the person using it or his training to interpret the information it provides. There are some really, really excellent fitters in main dealer workshops, and they are not necessarily old men who overhauled the Ark. Most of them will have been on numerous up to date factory training courses, however it is likely that the rest of the fitters will have nowhere near as many courses under their belts. Even not particularly recent starters will probably be waiting at least one or two years before being sent for any training. These master techs know their stuff, and get given the tricky problems to sort out, also because they are so good they don’t get hassled so much by the management to hurry up and meet the often scarcely achievable factory labour times. These are the men who get the job right first time. There is a problem in that not all the staff is up to this standard of professionalism, so not only do they struggle to meet the job time, they get less of a share of the more interesting jobs and the subsequent ability to diagnose and swiftly complete tasks because of insufficient ‘case load’. As a result they also sometimes have to cut corners to keep the management off their backs. Because the workshop runs shifts it cannot afford to have a vehicle sitting occupying space and not being worked upon, when the master tech or whoever else goes home at the end of the shift someone else will normally take over the job; this is often where subsequent issues arise along with the customer’s inability to speak to the man doing the job.
The single vehicle customer will be lucky indeed to benefit from the collection and delivery service and also the type of discounted labour rate that larger customers receive. He will however have equal access to the very advantageous night time shift, however there will be occasions when with no office staff present a decision about something will not have been taken and the vehicle is not ready for morning collection.
What parts are used on the vehicle will depend on dealer policy and customer instructions. The dealer will want to use parts from his own stores for maximum profit. He will also charge consumables either as sundries or as package quantities, so when a fitter runs out of WD40 in some dealerships a complete aerosol will be charged to the job. In some instances however the sheer quantity of eg brake chambers the factory buys from knorr bremse means that the dealer price is better than that obtainable form a factor.
Haulier.
Because the haulier operates the vehicles, his fitters will often have a better knowledge of what goes wrong with a particular model some considerable time before those in a main dealer workshop encounter the same fault; sometimes if they ever do - ‘case load’ again.
His fitters will probably be those who just can’t stand the atmosphere of a dealership and the constant pressure. There will still be pressure, but it will be to get the vehicle out on the road, not to complete every task in factory times. The men will be very conversant with the particular models the haulier runs and from their past background some or many other makes as well. The bigger haulier will also be sending his fitters on factory training courses to keep up to date. What he is unlikely to have that will normally be found in a dealership is a dedicated auto electrician. For the outside customer the haulage workshop is a mixed blessing, there will always be the suspicion often rightly held, that the haulier’s vehicles have priority. There will be a workshop stores with a reasonable level of fast moving parts and in some cases imprest stock from the local main dealer. How keen the workshop foreman will be to send someone in a van across town at school chucking out time in order to collect vital parts for a customer’s vehicle when his own vehicles are due back in large numbers imminently will be the test. Conversely the haulier will appreciate just how important it is to the customer to get his vehicle back on time and to get an early indication if that looks like being a problem- the haulier scores over the dealer on this count.
Independent Garage
Depending on the size of the garage this can often be the best option. If the customer pays his bills on time and turns up when arranged he becomes very important indeed to the smaller independent. This will often be run by someone of exceptional ability with one or two fitters assisting, ‘ The main man’ won’t have suffered fools lightly, his two fitters will be ones he now knows well and trusts, even so far as to leave them in charge while he takes a break. The garage will have Texa or similar for diagnostic investigation. There is also likely to be a particular determination not to be beaten by a nutty problem however long it takes to resolve and however much time gets written off. Parts will be on your account if you wish, OE spec from the local motor factor or OE from the dealer. The labour rate will be less then the main dealer and the invoice will reflect a more accurate portrayal of how long the job actually took, there will be less of the dealer’s additional make- weight jobs: “change n/s/r light bulb 15 mins, change o/s/r light bulb.15 mins”. There is also going to be a realistic appraisal of how much the job is worth - to both parties; this is where the best deal is likely to be found. The main disadvantage will be the ability to keep up with constant technical changes to the latest vehicles. Like the other options of mobile fitters there will be no option for overnight servicing or repairs.
Mobile Company or mobile individual
This is the option which is becoming less and less of a realistic proposition with the latest vehicles. The likes of Lantern have an advantage with the ability to afford up to date diagnostic equipment, however providing service vans with even the most basic equipment becomes very expensive when there are a fair number to equip. This size company also benefits from being able to call in additional men to a job if required. The main benefit to the customer is twofold - no vehicle and two-driver movements required when work is needed and usually a relationship can be built up with the particular fitter attending to your vehicles. The main disadvantage will be no night time service offered and the already mentioned slowly diminishing technical knowledge. The choice of parts is the same as the independent garage. The labour rate will also be similar, however this will have had to include an allowance for travelling and the need for each van to be stocked with consumables. The individual mobile fitter is broadly similar, usually cheaper still, unlikely to be able to tackle every job required, but often a surprise with just what can be done. What he and the company mobile just cannot cope with is the customer’s vehicle no-show. This generally means no work for the day. Perhaps the biggest advantage of the one man band is his inability to be in two places at once; he will be very, very keen to do everything he can to minimize the potential for breakdowns. For those who want to run on a shoestring and bodge everything this option just will not work.
Moonlighter
Most if not all of the previous two/three categories started off moonlighting. For the bodger operator this is probably the ideal choice – cheap as chips, the man will probably get it going again somehow with bags of enthusiasm if it is not too new. If it breaks down during the week then you are on your own. His technical knowledge may be very good indeed, particularly if he is working for the relevant main dealer, but he just won’t have the equipment to do many jobs – probably stretching to even the most basic of gear like axle stands. It won’t bother some, but there is just the vague possibility of being supplied with parts or consumables which didn’t belong to him.
It is difficult to draw a general conclusion, what suits some won’t suit others. Like all walks of life some are good others are not.
Here is the “reality” of “main agents” (I have worked for a few and still do)
Service. Not allowed to grease king pins,not allowed to top up batteries,not allowed to change light bulb,not allowed to top up oil(can check level on “b” service)
B service. Can connect “battery tester” and print off results but not top up battery,check engine ,box ,diff, levels but not top up,Check coolant but not top up,check SG of coolant,put grease on 5th wheel table,check hoses but not replace,check lights but not replace bulbs,still no grease for king pins,write down any defects.
Not allowed to lube door locks,bonnet catches,air deflector hinges,suzie couplings,steps,wiper linkage,door hinges,anything unless it is on the job card and chargeable as a seperate “item”
Instance O/S brake light out on vehicle inspection.Go into office and tell pretty lady truck has brake light out, pretty lady asks “supervisor” if its ok to change bulb, gets ok and then has to go on computer to re write job card with “defect” on it.go to stores to get bulb,get bulb ,fit it and see if it works,take old bulb back to stores!!!,fill in job sheet why I changed bulb,book job onto “e workshop” to explain why bulb changed, 55 minutes not bad.
I know you are being ripped off and I am wasting my [zb] time but that keeps a load of jerks in a job so it aint going to change soon is it ?
This is not “servicing” a vehicle its a bloody joke.
If you walk in a place and there is a load of pricks sat around with their bloody corporate logos stuck all over them walk out and find somewhere that wont take an hour to change a soddin head light bulb.
The whole “dealer” thing is just so much ■■■■■■■■.
Bking:
Here is the “reality” of “main agents” (I have worked for a few and still do)Service. Not allowed to grease king pins,not allowed to top up batteries,not allowed to change light bulb,not allowed to top up oil(can check level on “b” service)
B service. Can connect “battery tester” and print off results but not top up battery,check engine ,box ,diff, levels but not top up,Check coolant but not top up,check SG of coolant,put grease on 5th wheel table,check hoses but not replace,check lights but not replace bulbs,still no grease for king pins,write down any defects.
Not allowed to lube door locks,bonnet catches,air deflector hinges,suzie couplings,steps,wiper linkage,door hinges,anything unless it is on the job card and chargeable as a seperate “item”
Instance O/S brake light out on vehicle inspection.Go into office and tell pretty lady truck has brake light out, pretty lady asks “supervisor” if its ok to change bulb, gets ok and then has to go on computer to re write job card with “defect” on it.go to stores to get bulb,get bulb ,fit it and see if it works,take old bulb back to stores!!!,fill in job sheet why I changed bulb,book job onto “e workshop” to explain why bulb changed, 55 minutes not bad.
I know you are being ripped off and I am wasting my [zb] time but that keeps a load of jerks in a job so it aint going to change soon is it ?
This is not “servicing” a vehicle its a bloody joke.
If you walk in a place and there is a load of pricks sat around with their bloody corporate logos stuck all over them walk out and find somewhere that wont take an hour to change a soddin head light bulb.
The whole “dealer” thing is just so much [zb].
Have you ever actually thought that just maybe your bosses do not want you getting involved in technical things that may be well above your skill set …ie greasing stubs ,topping up washer bottles ■■? Where I work ,every vehicle that comes in gets it’s stubs greased ,oils topped up ,the only exception is engine oil ,where a customer will not authorise it as they have their own supply…
Just a little bit to add to cav551 post which was excellent…In a dealership ,you will also have the lads who are quiet happy doing servicing ,and have no wish to get involved in technical issues…Though you need allsorts to make a workshop operate ,personally I detest servicing ,and having done DAFs Master Tech course I am quiet happy that I may do a handful of servicing a year …Again as cav551 stated ,I generally do not worry about times ,it’s more of getting a first time fix,more so with how they are getting more complicated …Another thing that can hinder so people progressing ,is once someone has done a job once ,the gaffers generally always give that job to said person as they done it before successfully …EURO 6 being an example ,a lot of faults may be the first time a dealer may have saw it …So Master Tech gets it ,due to (again as cav says) Their thought process is different and they will look at inactive errors for a clue ,if there is an intermittent fault…Sadly not all manufacturers are fully trained before a new model is launched…Due to dealer standards ,new starts are quickly sent on relevant courses when they are available
norb:
Bking:
Here is the “reality” of “main agents” (I have worked for a few and still do)Service. Not allowed to grease king pins,not allowed to top up batteries,not allowed to change light bulb,not allowed to top up oil(can check level on “b” service)
B service. Can connect “battery tester” and print off results but not top up battery,check engine ,box ,diff, levels but not top up,Check coolant but not top up,check SG of coolant,put grease on 5th wheel table,check hoses but not replace,check lights but not replace bulbs,still no grease for king pins,write down any defects.
Not allowed to lube door locks,bonnet catches,air deflector hinges,suzie couplings,steps,wiper linkage,door hinges,anything unless it is on the job card and chargeable as a seperate “item”
Instance O/S brake light out on vehicle inspection.Go into office and tell pretty lady truck has brake light out, pretty lady asks “supervisor” if its ok to change bulb, gets ok and then has to go on computer to re write job card with “defect” on it.go to stores to get bulb,get bulb ,fit it and see if it works,take old bulb back to stores!!!,fill in job sheet why I changed bulb,book job onto “e workshop” to explain why bulb changed, 55 minutes not bad.
I know you are being ripped off and I am wasting my [zb] time but that keeps a load of jerks in a job so it aint going to change soon is it ?
This is not “servicing” a vehicle its a bloody joke.
If you walk in a place and there is a load of pricks sat around with their bloody corporate logos stuck all over them walk out and find somewhere that wont take an hour to change a soddin head light bulb.
The whole “dealer” thing is just so much [zb].
Have you ever actually thought that just maybe your bosses do not want you getting involved in technical things that may be well above your skill set …ie greasing stubs ,topping up washer bottles ■■? Where I work ,every vehicle that comes in gets it’s stubs greased ,oils topped up ,the only exception is engine oil ,where a customer will not authorise it as they have their own supply…
Well arnt you a clever boy.How long it take you learn how to use a grease gun?
No doubt you “work” for some "main agent " as well.
Love the term “technical”.You clever little boy.
Once took a daf to a main agent (warranty) only took the simpleton 3 hours to change a trailer “hamburger” lamp.
Not bad for a “agent” trained moron.
Bking:
Here is the “reality” of “main agents” (I have worked for a few and still do)Service. Not allowed to grease king pins,not allowed to top up batteries,not allowed to change light bulb,not allowed to top up oil(can check level on “b” service)
B service. Can connect “battery tester” and print off results but not top up battery,check engine ,box ,diff, levels but not top up,Check coolant but not top up,check SG of coolant,put grease on 5th wheel table,check hoses but not replace,check lights but not replace bulbs,still no grease for king pins,write down any defects.
Not allowed to lube door locks,bonnet catches,air deflector hinges,suzie couplings,steps,wiper linkage,door hinges,anything unless it is on the job card and chargeable as a seperate “item”
Instance O/S brake light out on vehicle inspection.Go into office and tell pretty lady truck has brake light out, pretty lady asks “supervisor” if its ok to change bulb, gets ok and then has to go on computer to re write job card with “defect” on it.go to stores to get bulb,get bulb ,fit it and see if it works,take old bulb back to stores!!!,fill in job sheet why I changed bulb,book job onto “e workshop” to explain why bulb changed, 55 minutes not bad.
I know you are being ripped off and I am wasting my [zb] time but that keeps a load of jerks in a job so it aint going to change soon is it ?
This is not “servicing” a vehicle its a bloody joke.
If you walk in a place and there is a load of pricks sat around with their bloody corporate logos stuck all over them walk out and find somewhere that wont take an hour to change a soddin head light bulb.
The whole “dealer” thing is just so much [zb].
And next week you’ll have some 19 year old ‘Service Manager’ wanting to know why it took an hour to change a bulb when the DAF/MAN/Scania/Volvo “Standard Workshop Labour Time” … note very carefully is recorded in METRIC TIME is .02hrs.
Yep cav the 100 period clock…I know my boss wouldn’t be too happy if I changed 4 bulbs on a customers vehicle and took .25 ie 15 mins per bulb…You would maybe get 15mins for doing the 4 bulbs…I have missed his abuse though 
There is an important bit missing in between ‘going to the stores’ and ‘get bulb’ and that is “Stores Waiting Time”.
Now officially this doesn’t exist which is why such a fuss is made about it and why it simply must get ‘lost’ onto the customer’s job card. It doesn’t matter how many times the workshop counter bell is rung nor for how long. The front counter and the telephones take absolute priority because neither are captive customers, unlike the the six fitters waiting at the workshop counter. So if the parts manager has upset the storeman then he is going to look up the part number for the stop light bulb … and for that he is going to need a chassis number. With the two other storemen on the phone, when it rings he is obliged to answer it, he has to be polite and listen to his customer’s little story of the day and only then can he take down the list of 15 parts needed for a ZF gearbox, look them up, check on price and availability and put the order through to the factory for VOR delivery tomorrow. That has to be done right away because cut off time is 4pm.
20 minutes later he returns with a bulb.
Repeat process later for a pedal rubber which couldn’t be authorised by the customer’s traffic clerk and had to wait for the transport manager to OK.
Ahhhh but when it comes to the ZF parts they then go to the wokshop for help in identifying the parts,as they are not sure what the customer means …Then there is the item which they say comes as a complete assembly and you then have to show them the breakdown drawing so you can get the £5 item not the 2 grand assembly…When I used to do breakdowns and the customer would be rather upset as we never had the part,i used to just give him the stores number and then they could explain direct Strangely the stores would then put in a complaint against myself not that I cared
norb:
Just a little bit to add to cav551 post which was excellent…In a dealership ,you will also have the lads who are quiet happy doing servicing ,and have no wish to get involved in technical issues…Though you need allsorts to make a workshop operate ,personally I detest servicing ,and having done DAFs Master Tech course I am quiet happy that I may do a handful of servicing a year …Again as cav551 stated ,I generally do not worry about times ,it’s more of getting a first time fix,more so with how they are getting more complicated …Another thing that can hinder so people progressing ,is once someone has done a job once ,the gaffers generally always give that job to said person as they done it before successfully …EURO 6 being an example ,a lot of faults may be the first time a dealer may have saw it …So Master Tech gets it ,due to (again as cav says) Their thought process is different and they will look at inactive errors for a clue ,if there is an intermittent fault…Sadly not all manufacturers are fully trained before a new model is launched…Due to dealer standards ,new starts are quickly sent on relevant courses when they are available
Should have been a politician.SOB who knows jack.
But I got the “certificates”
Had some clever sob the other day with a stuck trailer hub told this “technician” too use a fork truck.Thick sob asked “why”
Dumb pillock.Any of you "clever " boys know what the hell Im talkin about?
If and its a big “if” I could find a few local hauliers who would back me in a HGV repair centre,OK a hundred grand,myself and experienced people I know could undercut “main agents” costs by more than half.
The problem is “trust”
I need to be payed on the dot,Not just for me but for the people who work with me (not for me)I Im talking about people with years of experience not some “technician” who thinks changing a wheel or tyre is below him.(go into any “main agent” and ask a technician to change a tyre(not a wheel)
Most of these tossers couldnt pull back their own ■■■■■■■■
Yeah your back burger king ,missed your rants ,please stay longer this time now that I know you I actually enjoy your rants now
That is going to be a very, very big IF indeed. Wake up and smell the coffee.
There is another thread on here in which the OP has been quoted £13.50 for 15 minutes by a main dealer.
If you think that you and your mates are going to survive on less than £27 hr and give these hard nosed hauliers the service they want, then I am sorry to say that you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Whoever supplies the hundred grand will be expecting a return on the capital involved; you won’t be doing that when you are consistently making a loss.
Get somewhere near matching that main dealer’s rate and you stand a chance, but that hundred grand will not have been any where near enough to acquire the premises and equipment you will need. Even if everything goes well you will never have a comfortable level of work, it will either be too much so that you don’t achieve the revenue that the jobs are worth because you have turned them around too quickly, or you won’t have enough to keep busy earning.
Bking:
If and its a big “if” I could find a few local hauliers who would back me in a HGV repair centre,OK a hundred grand,myself and experienced people I know could undercut “main agents” costs by more than half.The problem is “trust”
I need to be payed on the dot,Not just for me but for the people who work with me (not for me)I Im talking about people with years of experience not some “technician” who thinks changing a wheel or tyre is below him.(go into any “main agent” and ask a technician to change a tyre(not a wheel)Most of these tossers couldnt pull back their own ■■■■■■■■
I don’t think you’d need a 100k mate, sounds like you’ve already got the tools and know how, is it what you actually want, or you gonna stay under the dealers wing for your last few years?
Can’t believe people are still taking Bking seriously. The flaw in his business plan isn’t whether you can kit a truck workshop out for £100k - doubtful unless you buy a load of knackered old crap- it’s that he doesn’t know what the ■■■■ he’s doing.
Own Account Driver:
Can’t believe people are still taking Bking seriously. The flaw in his business plan isn’t whether you can kit a truck workshop out for £100k - doubtful unless you buy a load of knackered old crap- it’s that he doesn’t know what the [zb] he’s doing.
Something like yourself?