lolipop:
Truckstops are large pieces of land that stand idle most of the day until the overnighters come in from 4 ish time and gone by 7.00am not enough revenue to make it viable.
Additionally, in the space it require to provide one truck parking space, parking for three or four cars containing maybe ten or twelve customers could be provided.
I believe MSA’s rent the land from the goverment, which no doubt isn’t cheap and in return for being allowed to rent this “goldmine” of a site they have to provide a certain level of service, which I believe is something like fuel and food 24hrs a day 365days a year.
I’m sure if they where making a fortune out of truck parking and thier drivers, they’d be trying to tempt us in with deals and increasing the size of the lorry parks.
Truck parking in the uk is dire, not enough and poor facilities where they do exist. As somebody else said on another thread something needs to be done and really goverment is the only people who can do it as the free market option isn’t working.
It doesn’t need tax payers money, but changing planning regulation, so when they put up these massive distribution parks they have to provide a certain number of parking places. This would make that land specified impossible to sell or rent to a distribution operation, but the owner might be able to rent it at a lower rate to a truckstop provider.
I’m staying in the sprawling distribution centre that is crick tonight, but I’m in a hotel the only places for trucks to park overnight round here seems to be a few layby’s without access to basic facilities or go up the road to Rugby truckstop and hope you can get in. Which seems mad when you see the major logistics operators who have massive warehouses here that rely on truck to service them.
Honked:
Simple answer is don’t pay. It’s a business expense that your boss can pay to run his business.
Our lot pay parking but are not too keen on paying MSA extortionate rates, can’t blame them either.
Even if they did pay willinglly, I would still avoid them on principle.
I find haulage rates extortionate please could you reduce them That’s why I avoid using haulage firms on principles (But when I was an OD I thought rates were too low )
Sorry, and maybe I’m being a bit thick here (been a bad day ) but that has gone right over my Swede mate.
Are you saying I should pay to park there for some bizzare reason or what.?
Honked:
Simple answer is don’t pay. It’s a business expense that your boss can pay to run his business.
Yes it’s a business expense, but maybe because I mostly worked for small, family owned companies when I was on general haulage I avoided MSA, partly because I don’t really like them and also I thought it was taking the ■■■■ sticking in 5 nights claims for MSA parking. I preferred cafes and truckstops or even parking at a customers site and walking a local pub.
But that was a few years ago now and I know many of those cafes have gone and customers are less likely to allow you to park at their premises, no doubt on H&S grounds and also they rarely have a night guard who’d let you back in once you’ve come back from the pub.
Honked:
Simple answer is don’t pay. It’s a business expense that your boss can pay to run his business.
Yes it’s a business expense, but maybe because I mostly worked for small, family owned companies when I was on general haulage I avoided MSA, partly because I don’t really like them and also I thought it was taking the ■■■■ sticking in 5 nights claims for MSA parking. I preferred cafes and truckstops or even parking at a customers site and walking a local pub.
But that was a few years ago now and I know many of those cafes have gone and customers are less likely to allow you to park at their premises, no doubt on H&S grounds and also they rarely have a night guard who’d let you back in once you’ve come back from the pub.
AndrewG:
Always thought MSA’s were a rip off when i used to drive in the UK 20+ years ago but £30 is just plain ridiculous, its one of the reasons i got away from it to work in mainland Europe. Over here drivers are not treated like something dirty on the bottom of your shoe (or crocs or flip flops) with mostly excellent places to stop.
Truck parking in most of Europe is a revelation if you’re used to the uk. Even though the service area generally seem better, some in Belguim give a 20% to truck drivers, just have to show your driving licence, I generally avoid them and try and find truck parks off the motorways.
Love using the Routiers, intersting etiquette where you supposed to use the next space at the table instead of going off in a corner on your own, and sharing the wine and water, Sort of helps breaks the ice and end up having a chat with your fellow diners. And some Autohofs are more like restaurants than a cafe, still want to know how before I say anything they’ve given me an English menu, German efficiency I suppose.
Honked:
Simple answer is don’t pay. It’s a business expense that your boss can pay to run his business.
Yes it’s a business expense, but maybe because I mostly worked for small, family owned companies when I was on general haulage I avoided MSA, partly because I don’t really like them and also I thought it was taking the ■■■■ sticking in 5 nights claims for MSA parking. I preferred cafes and truckstops or even parking at a customers site and walking a local pub.
But that was a few years ago now and I know many of those cafes have gone and customers are less likely to allow you to park at their premises, no doubt on H&S grounds and also they rarely have a night guard who’d let you back in once you’ve come back from the pub.
Not if you bring him back a bag of chips.
But these days by the time he’s come back round in his van the chips are cold.
AndrewG:
Always thought MSA’s were a rip off when i used to drive in the UK 20+ years ago but £30 is just plain ridiculous, its one of the reasons i got away from it to work in mainland Europe. Over here drivers are not treated like something dirty on the bottom of your shoe (or crocs or flip flops) with mostly excellent places to stop.
Truck parking in most of Europe is a revelation if you’re used to the uk. Even though the service area generally seem better, some in Belguim give a 20% to truck drivers, just have to show your driving licence, I generally avoid them and try and find truck parks off the motorways.
Love using the Routiers, intersting etiquette where you supposed to use the next space at the table instead of going off in a corner on your own, and sharing the wine and water, Sort of helps breaks the ice and end up having a chat with your fellow diners. And some Autohofs are more like restaurants than a cafe, still want to know how before I say anything they’ve given me an English menu, German efficiency I suppose.
I quite like Guiselwind truck stop if im ever that way, as well as the restaurants on site they also have a whole array of take away food on offer. Overnighted there when i tipped in Wurzburg in June last year , the 15km of roadworks was a bit of a mare though its just never ending. Bratwurst sausage with fried potatoes and beer gravy…very nice…
robroy:
Are you saying I should pay to park there for some bizzare reason or what.?
I’m suggesting nothing in life is free, that even applies if you want ‘decent’ facilities. I’ve seen it from both sides as a driver/owner operator and then moving into working in a ‘gov’ dept and being one of a couple of people covering Roadside facilities until I jacked pretty recently
muckles:
I believe MSA’s rent the land from the goverment, which no doubt isn’t cheap and in return for being allowed to rent this “goldmine” of a site they have to provide a certain level of service, which I believe is something like fuel and food 24hrs a day 365days a year.
Less than 18% are ‘leasehold’ the rest are all privately owned by a variety of fuel, investment and property companies etc. The level of service is yet again in gov.uk/government/publicati … evelopment Annex B
muckles:
I’m sure if they where making a fortune out of truck parking and thier drivers, they’d be trying to tempt us in with deals and increasing the size of the lorry parks.
The figures are being “massaged” as we speak keep your eyes peeled
muckles:
Truck parking in the uk is dire, not enough and poor facilities where they do exist. As somebody else said on another thread something needs to be done and really goverment is the only people who can do it as the free market option isn’t working.
It doesn’t need tax payers money, but changing planning regulation, so when they put up these massive distribution parks they have to provide a certain number of parking places. This would make that land specified impossible to sell or rent to a distribution operation, but the owner might be able to rent it at a lower rate to a truckstop provider.
I’m staying in the sprawling distribution centre that is crick tonight, but I’m in a hotel the only places for trucks to park overnight round here seems to be a few layby’s without access to basic facilities or go up the road to Rugby truckstop and hope you can get in. Which seems mad when you see the major logistics operators who have massive warehouses here that rely on truck to service them.
Muckles talks about lot of sense above, it is up to LPA’s (local planning authorities) to make these objectives part of planning conditions without making the overall project unviable, many logistics companies in line with the RHA and FTA see truck parking and driver facilities as anyone’s problem but their own.
AndrewG:
Always thought MSA’s were a rip off when i used to drive in the UK 20+ years ago but £30 is just plain ridiculous, its one of the reasons i got away from it to work in mainland Europe. Over here drivers are not treated like something dirty on the bottom of your shoe (or crocs or flip flops) with mostly excellent places to stop.
Truck parking in most of Europe is a revelation if you’re used to the uk. Even though the service area generally seem better, some in Belguim give a 20% to truck drivers, just have to show your driving licence, I generally avoid them and try and find truck parks off the motorways.
Love using the Routiers, intersting etiquette where you supposed to use the next space at the table instead of going off in a corner on your own, and sharing the wine and water, Sort of helps breaks the ice and end up having a chat with your fellow diners. And some Autohofs are more like restaurants than a cafe, still want to know how before I say anything they’ve given me an English menu, German efficiency I suppose.
I quite like Guiselwind truck stop if im ever that way, as well as the restaurants on site they also have a whole array of take away food on offer. Overnighted there when i tipped in Wurzburg in June last year , the 15km of roadworks was a bit of a mare though its just never ending. Bratwurst sausage with fried potatoes and beer gravy…very nice…
I agree Andrew, Guiselwind is really nice, all the Autohofs are really good, I love running in Germany for the facility’s, curry wurst and chips, mmmmmmmmm
truckyboy:
I always thought the service slip roads were a responsibility of the highways agency ? hence they cannot give you a ticket for parking on them ( if they have a layby of course, or a long load bay ) anyway i think their prices are an absolute joke £25 - £30 just to park…with no security whatsoever…thurrock is one of the worst…but they do make room in the car parks for overnight parking of trucks…i always find it great fun on my Bulgarian number plates, where i can park with impunity and not pay a penny…sadly i use the showers too…but spend in other areas for food…i am one of the lucky ones i guess.
Just double checked and MSAs are responsible for the construction and maintenance of the slip roads.
albion:
Sorry, it tends to be a bugbear of mine that people complain about charges ( sometimes it’s justified!) and yet don’t always know the costs involved. Probably because I have to do the rates here I’m more aware.
If you knew how much profit is made on a small latte at Moto, you wouldn’t be thinking of the operators. I used to work at Toddington North and the profit numbers on that site were mind-blowing. Which is how Compass Group managed to keep the loss making Little Chef chain running for the better part of a decade before calling it quits on that brand. Anyway, I wouldn’t mind paying £10 for parking and claiming that back, then buying my own food, paying a quid or two for a decent shower, grabbing a coffee and a bacon sarnie in the morning before heading off. I do complain about paying £31 for parking at Clackett Lane and getting broken into overnight.
Olog Hai:
Honked:
Simple answer is don’t pay. It’s a business expense that your boss can pay to run his business.
Is the right answer.
Any driver who pays to park the boss’s truck out of his or her own pocket and who does not claim the amount back deserves everything they get. I spent £71 of the firm’s money to stay in a hotel last night but do I care? No. I can’t understand drivers who get wound up over something that is a business expense and it paid by the employer, such as parking, diesel, the list goes on.
Yes, to a certain extent. The night before New Years Eve I paid for parking out of my own pocket because while there was plenty of free parking around, I decided to stop at Ulceby Truck Stop to get a hot meal either side of sleeping. It was my decision, there was no business case for it, (I was empty) so I didn’t mind paying.
On the flipside, I did a week for Woodlands Haulage a couple of months back and one night decided, for the shower and a hot meal reasons, to park at Caneby Corner, despite the O-Centre being less than a mile away, (the house was over an hours drive away so I was in the cab no matter where I parked it). £15, included a meal and the boss wouldn’t let me pay for it. I did say that it was my choice so I should pay for it but he was insistent, I had incurred an expense while in his truck, the company would pay. I suppose thats the difference between a graduate Transport Manager and one who has actually sat in a truck, this one cared.
I’m writing the business plan for my own trucks now and have accounted £80 a week for overnight parking. Any driver I put in a wagon will be made aware that that is the budget for ONP and if they go over they pay the difference. If they want to park on MSAs every night it will cost them a packet. If they want to park in laybys every night it won’t. If they want to fight a little smart and find the truckstops, they can get a meal and a shower every night of a five day week and not spend a penny of their own. For any full-timers I end up taking on, (assuming of course that my numbers are right and the first truck makes a profit!), a chunk of anything they save over the year might very well find its way into their case of Stella at Christmas, that way we both win.
I’m not thinking about the operators. Just pointed out that unless you know all the costs and all the sales, it’s difficult to evaluate wether a charge is a rip off or not.
Good luck with the business plan, wouldn’t know how to do one myself.
robroy:
Are you saying I should pay to park there for some bizzare reason or what.?
I’m suggesting nothing in life is free, that even applies if you want ‘decent’ facilities. I’ve seen it from both sides as a driver/owner operator and then moving into working in a ‘gov’ dept and being one of a couple of people covering Roadside facilities until I jacked pretty recently .
I take your point, nothing in life is free, but does that give them carte blanche to charge whatever tf they like ?
On the other hand I do not mind paying that little bit extra for anything …as long as it is better than paying next to nothing for an alternative item, or service of the same nature, that is vastly inferior.
But the food is crap, the security is zero, the parking… 9 times out of 10 is too tight, to the point where you lose a mirror if some 2at aint watching his work.
They put you as far away as possible from the entrance, an explanation, (and arguably by some a justification ) as to why the park reeks of stale ■■■■.
A figure of 30 quid was mentioned, I don’t know if that is an exaggeration because I never overnight there, even 20 quid x 5 nights out.
Do you really think that is value for money??
A classic example of greedy rip off Britain compared to other countries in the EU (for now )
robroy:
A figure of 30 quid was mentioned, I don’t know if that is an exaggeration because I never overnight there, even 20 quid x 5 nights out.
Do you really think that is value for money??
A classic example of greedy rip off Britain compared to other countries in the EU (for now )
Roadchef range from £19 at Killington Lake to £31 at Maidstone + £3 for a 2x£5 Meal Voucher.
Moto range from £14.50 at Leeming Bar to £30 at Thurrock + £1.50 for a £10 Meal Voucher. As an outlier, Barton Park is only £10.50 for the night but the food voucher is only worth £3.50.
Extra Services: Cobham & Beaconsfield = £25 for 3-24 hours,
Cambridge, Peterborough, Baldock = £25 for 3-24 hours,
Blackburn & Cullompton = £20 for 3-24 hours
No Meal Vouchers at all but you can pay by SNAP. Good luck getting into Cobham or Beaconsfield though because they are BG and PL magnets.
Welcome Breaks prices range from £20 at Sarn Park to £29 at Birchanger Green. Meal Voucher of £9 value costs +£3. They also operate Derby Services on the A50 in both directions which has no food offering apart from a pasty and a costa express and will set you back £16 if you are lucky enough to be one of the 5 trucks that fit in either side of the road.
Don’t know about EuroGarages sites because most of them I have found are all double yellows.
Maybe ive lost touch with UK parking costs but anything over £10 to park overnight seems excessive to me, its no wonder the laybys are chock full of PL/LT/BG…
robroy:
A figure of 30 quid was mentioned, I don’t know if that is an exaggeration because I never overnight there, even 20 quid x 5 nights out.
Do you really think that is value for money??
A classic example of greedy rip off Britain compared to other countries in the EU (for now )
Roadchef range from £19 at Killington Lake to £31 at Maidstone + £3 for a 2x£5 Meal Voucher.
Moto range from £14.50 at Leeming Bar to £30 at Thurrock + £1.50 for a £10 Meal Voucher. As an outlier, Barton Park is only £10.50 for the night but the food voucher is only worth £3.50.
Extra Services: Cobham & Beaconsfield = £25 for 3-24 hours,
Cambridge, Peterborough, Baldock = £25 for 3-24 hours,
Blackburn & Cullompton = £20 for 3-24 hours
No Meal Vouchers at all but you can pay by SNAP. Good luck getting into Cobham or Beaconsfield though because they are BG and PL magnets.
Welcome Breaks prices range from £20 at Sarn Park to £29 at Birchanger Green. Meal Voucher of £9 value costs +£3. They also operate Derby Services on the A50 in both directions which has no food offering apart from a pasty and a costa express and will set you back £16 if you are lucky enough to be one of the 5 trucks that fit in either side of the road.
Don’t know about EuroGarages sites because most of them I have found are all double yellows.
Ok mate, you appear to have embraced overnight parking in MSAs.
As a regular parker, do you consider that you get good value, the fact you can maybe park by SNAP or whatever, is irrelevant as to whether you do or not.
Maybe that is why they charge rip off prices, as drivers are not initially forking out themselves, so they aint fussed…
robroy:
I take your point, nothing in life is free, but does that give them carte blanche to charge whatever tf they like ?
Yes I’m afraid it does.
It’s not like they’re short of customers is it, when was the last time you saw the truck parking empty in an MSA overnight.
But the food is crap, the security is zero, the parking… 9 times out of 10 is too tight, to the point where you lose a mirror if some 2at aint watching his work.
If they weren’t busy this wouldn’t be a problem, but as you know, they’re packed out at night with everybody stumping up their parking charges.
They put you as far away as possible from the entrance, an explanation, (and arguably by some a justification ) as to why the park reeks of stale ■■■■.
Let’s be honest, it’s only really the overweight unfit drivers that will complain about this, a good walk never did anybody any harm (unless you get run over walking through the coach park on the way to the main building!).
By comparison, the walk to the building from the truck park in any UK MSA is nothing compared to some of the new truck parking being built on French MSA’s. They’ve recognised the lack of parking problem and have been adding extra truck parking to many service areas, and given the size of the new areas some of them require the use of proper hiking gear to get to the main building
A classic example of greedy rip off Britain compared to other countries in the EU (for now )
My understanding is that you don’t pay in French MSA’s because you’ve already paid to be on the motorway through the tolls, no idea about other countries though.
robroy:
I take your point, nothing in life is free, but does that give them carte blanche to charge whatever tf they like ?
Yes I’m afraid it does.
It’s not like they’re short of customers is it, when was the last time you saw the truck parking empty in an MSA overnight.
But the food is crap, the security is zero, the parking… 9 times out of 10 is too tight, to the point where you lose a mirror if some 2at aint watching his work.
If they weren’t busy this wouldn’t be a problem, but as you know, they’re packed out at night with everybody stumping up their parking charges.
They put you as far away as possible from the entrance, an explanation, (and arguably by some a justification ) as to why the park reeks of stale ■■■■.
Let’s be honest, it’s only really the overweight unfit drivers that will complain about this, a good walk never did anybody any harm (unless you get run over walking through the coach park on the way to the main building!).
By comparison, the walk to the building from the truck park in any UK MSA is nothing compared to some of the new truck parking being built on French MSA’s. They’ve recognised the lack of parking problem and have been adding extra truck parking to many service areas, and given the size of the new areas some of them require the use of proper hiking gear to get to the main building
A classic example of greedy rip off Britain compared to other countries in the EU (for now )
My understanding is that you don’t pay in French MSA’s because you’ve already paid to be on the motorway through the tolls, no idea about other countries though.
To be honest mate I fully understood the whys and where fors of the situation before I posted, and most of my questions were rhetorical,…but thanks for trying to enlighten me.
I was merely pointing out the bad points of these places, and illustrating that some of these reasons are why I avoid them like herpes when it comes to parking overnight.
robroy:
A figure of 30 quid was mentioned, I don’t know if that is an exaggeration because I never overnight there, even 20 quid x 5 nights out.
Do you really think that is value for money??
A classic example of greedy rip off Britain compared to other countries in the EU (for now )
Roadchef range from £19 at Killington Lake to £31 at Maidstone + £3 for a 2x£5 Meal Voucher.
Moto range from £14.50 at Leeming Bar to £30 at Thurrock + £1.50 for a £10 Meal Voucher. As an outlier, Barton Park is only £10.50 for the night but the food voucher is only worth £3.50.
Extra Services: Cobham & Beaconsfield = £25 for 3-24 hours,
Cambridge, Peterborough, Baldock = £25 for 3-24 hours,
Blackburn & Cullompton = £20 for 3-24 hours
No Meal Vouchers at all but you can pay by SNAP. Good luck getting into Cobham or Beaconsfield though because they are BG and PL magnets.
Welcome Breaks prices range from £20 at Sarn Park to £29 at Birchanger Green. Meal Voucher of £9 value costs +£3. They also operate Derby Services on the A50 in both directions which has no food offering apart from a pasty and a costa express and will set you back £16 if you are lucky enough to be one of the 5 trucks that fit in either side of the road.
Don’t know about EuroGarages sites because most of them I have found are all double yellows.
Ok mate, you appear to have embraced overnight parking in MSAs.
As a regular parker, do you consider that you get good value, the fact you can maybe park by SNAP or whatever, is irrelevant as to whether you do or not.
Maybe that is why they charge rip off prices, as drivers are not initially forking out themselves, so they aint fussed…
I’m not a regular MSA parker, just good on the google.
I don’t feel that MSAs are good value and only park in them when I have little other choice.
As for the SNAP question, it goes by the registration number of the truck so unless you are the only one that ever drives your lorry, I wouldn’t recommend it.
That’s why I avoid using haulage firms on principles (But when I was an OD I thought rates were too low 
)
