I have not pulled one of these trailers so I would like to ask my learned friends a question, with a rear steer trailer of this type of set up set be closer to the n/s when turning left or do these trailers not work that way.
Roymondo:
Carryfast:
Would be safer and easier to put all the extra length ahead of the axles increasing the cut in where it can be dealt with as an artic is supposed to be driven.
Not on the tail sweep which is an accident waiting to happen.Putting the extra length ahead of the trailer axles will result in additional weight on the 5th wheel (and so on the unit’s axles). All well and good if you are transporting pallets full of bog rolls, less so if the goods you are carrying have a modicum of weight. The whole idea of having multiple axles on a trailer is that they share the load.
Fulcrum points obviously mean nothing to you lateral or vertical.
Since when was and how is lifting weight off the pin and dumping it on the rear most trailer axle instead a good thing.
As for less cut in at the expense of tail sweep that’s why we’re here on this topic.
dave docwra:
I have not pulled one of these trailers so I would like to ask my learned friends a question, with a rear steer trailer of this type of set up set be closer to the n/s when turning left or do these trailers not work that way.
Yes it would but will it make any difference at the end of the day, no.
Other than turning a go in as wide as possible and let the unit turning circle do its job as its designed to do, into an impossible blind catch 22 balancing act of tail sweep and cut in.
The rear steer is only there to take the load that’s been lifted off the fifth wheel by the fulcrum of the axles ahead of it while still allowing the tail sweep to move out across the road.Oh wait.
toonsy:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Those extended rear steer trailers are a bloody nightmare, don’t want one and won’t be using one, they can stick the bloody things where the sun doesn’t shine.It’s anyone’s guess who dreamt up the idea that more tail sweep is safer than more cut in.
Have you ever driven one of these trailers?
None of your normal waffle, not interested. Just a simple yes or no answer. No theorising, just a simple yes or no based on your own personal experience
I’m a class 1 driver and with experience in truck manufacture and who understands the complexities of fulcrum points and their results as part of that.
On that note I wouldn’t have hit the van because I would have refused to drive such a flawed piece of junk.Piece of junk meant in the literal sense.
Full video here:
youtu.be/FLt-zHW1Aw8?t=29
Posted this a while back:
trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … 2&t=172396
Carryfast:
toonsy:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Those extended rear steer trailers are a bloody nightmare, don’t want one and won’t be using one, they can stick the bloody things where the sun doesn’t shine.It’s anyone’s guess who dreamt up the idea that more tail sweep is safer than more cut in.
Have you ever driven one of these trailers?
None of your normal waffle, not interested. Just a simple yes or no answer. No theorising, just a simple yes or no based on your own personal experience
I’m a class 1 driver and with experience in truck manufacture and who understands the complexities of fulcrum points and their results as part of that.
On that note I wouldn’t have hit the van because I would have refused to drive such a flawed piece of junk.Piece of junk meant in the literal sense.
So…
No then.
stu675:
Franglais:
Carryfast:
lift weight off the pin and put it on the rear trailer axle.Go on then: please explain to us how you were correct in that post.
NB: those trailers all have air suspension.
He is correct if you loaded it ridiculously with all the weight to the rear of the pivot point of the Axel’s. [emoji849]
But the pivot point is now much further forward v the total length of the load deck relatively.
To the point of all of the added load deck length, v a standard length trailer, being behind that fulcrum point.Your point then being what ?.
those trailers are fine for trunk runs but I know IDS use this trailer for collections from local growers some times to get the full load in 1 hit and it’s bit them in the ■■■.
But also agree both the traffic lights and van are in a poor position but ultimately the buck stops with the driver of the moving vehicle.
Carryfast:
toonsy:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Those extended rear steer trailers are a bloody nightmare, don’t want one and won’t be using one, they can stick the bloody things where the sun doesn’t shine.It’s anyone’s guess who dreamt up the idea that more tail sweep is safer than more cut in.
Have you ever driven one of these trailers?
None of your normal waffle, not interested. Just a simple yes or no answer. No theorising, just a simple yes or no based on your own personal experience
I’m a class 1 driver and with experience in truck manufacture and who understands the complexities of fulcrum points and their results as part of that.
On that note I wouldn’t have hit the van because I would have refused to drive such a flawed piece of junk.Piece of junk meant in the literal sense.
Here we go again, another thread polluted by Carryfast’s fanciful, airy, fairy theories. All backed up by an incomplete apprenticeship, fifty years ago and a brief, mundane, entry-level driving job, last century. 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, why do you lot bother to answer him? it’s called feeding the troll I believe.
Now, having seen that I’d say the van driver made a big contribution to that by, one: being too far forward, two: by not reversing when he saw what was going to happen. He had nothing behind him. He’d all ready gone up the kerb/path making me wonder about what was posted earlier about him making a quick stop.
peterm:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, why do you lot bother to answer him? it’s called feeding the troll I believe.
Normally I’d agree with you Peterm, but so many new drivers come here for accurate information, so misinformation has to be called out.
Unless we, experienced and knowledgeable, drivers alert the upcoming generation to the faux proficiency and knowledge, they will accept it at face value. They deserve better than that.
stu675:
Franglais:
Carryfast:
lift weight off the pin and put it on the rear trailer axle.Go on then: please explain to us how you were correct in that post.
NB: those trailers all have air suspension.
He is correct if you loaded it ridiculously with all the weight to the rear of the pivot point of the Axel’s. [emoji849]
IF it was loaded so that the front axles were about to leave the ground, then only the rear axle (and run under bar!) would, take extra weight*.
BUT he didn`t say that, did he?
He said
Carryfast:
Also bearing in mind that any weight put on the extra deck length will lift weight off the pin and put it on the rear trailer axle.
Any extra weight on the extra length will put weight on the rear axle.
Is not the case. It will (within design limits) put extra weight on all of the trailer axles.
The road friendly air suspension system distributes weight over all the axles. It is designed that way. Heavy vehicles and these long trailers don`t use conventional springs. And for any trying to use simple “moments about a point”, rermember they should only be used in rigid systems. When springs are involved it gets more complicated.
*weight? easier on this forum than being correct and using mass/load/force/reaction etc.
peterm:
I’.Now, having seen that I’d say the van driver made a big contribution to that by, one: being too far forward, two: by not reversing when he saw what was going to happen. He had nothing behind him. He’d all ready gone up the kerb/path making me wonder about what was posted earlier about him making a quick stop.
I completely disagree. You can’t expect the van driver to know anything about tail swing, especially not to expect rear steer on an artic. It looks like you can see the back of the “stop here when red light shows” board exactly where the van has stopped.
Franglais:
stu675:
Franglais:
Carryfast:
lift weight off the pin and put it on the rear trailer axle.Go on then: please explain to us how you were correct in that post.
NB: those trailers all have air suspension.
He is correct if you loaded it ridiculously with all the weight to the rear of the pivot point of the Axel’s. [emoji849]
IF it was loaded so that the front axles were about to leave the ground, then only the rear axle (and run under bar!) would, take extra weight*.
BUT he didn`t say that, did he?He said
Carryfast:
Also bearing in mind that any weight put on the extra deck length will lift weight off the pin and put it on the rear trailer axle.Any extra weight on the extra length will put weight on the rear axle.
Is not the case. It will (within design limits) put extra weight on all of the trailer axles.
The road friendly air suspension system distributes weight over all the axles. It is designed that way. Heavy vehicles and these long trailers don`t use conventional springs. And for any trying to use simple “moments about a point”, rermember they should only be used in rigid systems. When springs are involved it gets more complicated.*weight? easier on this forum than being correct and using mass/load/force/reaction etc.
What difference does the suspension type whether air or steel suspension make to the fact that all of the extra load deck length is behind the same fulcrum point both vertically and laterally that creates the tail sweep problem.Any weight put on that part of the deck can only lift the equivalent weight off the pin and transfer it to the rearmost trailer axle regardless of trailer axle suspension type.So you dump air from the rear steer that just transfers the load to the next rearmost axle it still won’t put it back on the pin.
yourhavingalarf:
So…No then.
A UK spec 45ft Tri laxle , let alone tandem axle, is close enough in terms of knowing that trading cut in for tail sweep, with an artic and the way an artic is designed to go round corners, is a very bad thing.I managed not to hit anything with either type. But would definitely refuse to drive these heaps for the same reason that I didn’t collect anything with the standard compromised 45ft.Tail sweep is more dangerous than cut in and I don’t need to drive one these contraptions to know that and that too much is too much.
Any decent driver should realise how much room they require to get through a certain space and if they are not 100% they can get through safely they should wait.
Never drove that type of trailer but drove plenty wide loads. If you are driving a trailer that has extra tail swing surely extra care is required and putting the blame on other
vehicles for poor judgement is really not on.
jakethesnake:
Any decent driver should realise how much room they require
Never drove that type of trailer but drove plenty wide loads. If you are driving a trailer that has extra tail swing surely extra care is required and putting the blame on other
vehicles for poor judgement is really not on.
If you start a turn with sufficient room v other traffic but then someone comes along after and fills it the highway code actually does place a responsibility on the other driver to allow for large turning vehicles.
If you’re driving an artic the tail sweep is totally blind during a turn as opposed to the cut in which is more visible through more of the turn.
So what do they do let’s put more length on the tail sweep that’ll fix it.
Carryfast:
What difference does the suspension type whether air or steel suspension make to the fact that all of the extra load deck length is behind the same fulcrum point both vertically and laterally that creates the tail sweep problem.Any weight put on that part of the deck can only lift the equivalent weight off the pin and transfer it to the rearmost trailer axle regardless of trailer axle suspension type.So you dump air from the rear steer that just transfers the load to the next rearmost axle it still won’t put it back on the pin.
Not this again .
This was all explained to you a while back in a thread about LST’s. Even a trailer manufacturer came on here and explained to you how air suspension compensates for what you think happens.
And what’s the obsession with dumping the air out of the rear steer? If anything you increase air to the rear axle thus lifting it to normal travel height, compensating for the increased weight and transferring the weight forwards, all controlled automatically by the trailer. That’s the difference between air and steel.
Further more, LST’s carry less weight than a standard trailer. They have to due to extra body length and rear steer mechanism. They are used by those who cube out before they gross out. Putting four extra pallets on and assuming all are equal weight then each individual pallet isn’t going to weigh a huge amount. Then there’s the increased axle spread which means there isn’t a massively extra rear overhang compared to a standard 45 footer. Put that together and you’ve got not a lot of weight going on not a big overhang. It wouldn’t take that much weight off the pin even if it was on steel.
And before you mention heavy pallets, these would go against the head board and not right at the back. Just like you’d load a 45 footer.
I used to pull these trailers day in day out. Never had any problems on the roads, motorways or other. Never experienced any of the problems you imagine them to have.
In regards to the original vid and without seeing what the driver sees in front then I’d have to say it’s the trucks fault.
Looks to me like he positioned the trailer to compensate for cut in but with the rear steer he needn’t have. There is very little cut in so could probably have positioned closer to the side of the road to allow for more tail swing.
Johneboy:
Carryfast:
What difference does the suspension type whether air or steel suspension make to the fact that all of the extra load deck length is behind the same fulcrum point both vertically and laterally that creates the tail sweep problem.Any weight put on that part of the deck can only lift the equivalent weight off the pin and transfer it to the rearmost trailer axle regardless of trailer axle suspension type.So you dump air from the rear steer that just transfers the load to the next rearmost axle it still won’t put it back on the pin.Not this again
This was all explained to you a while back in a thread about LST’s. Even a trailer manufacturer came on here and explained to you how air suspension compensates for what you think happens.And what’s the obsession with dumping the air out of the rear steer? If anything you increase air to the rear axle thus lifting it to normal travel height, compensating for the increased weight and transferring the weight forwards, all controlled automatically by the trailer. That’s the difference between air and steel.
Further more, LST’s carry less weight than a standard trailer. They have to due to extra body length and rear steer mechanism. They are used by those who cube out before they gross out. Putting four extra pallets on and assuming all are equal weight then each individual pallet isn’t going to weigh a huge amount. Then there’s the increased axle spread which means there isn’t a massively extra rear overhang compared to a standard 45 footer. Put that together and you’ve got not a lot of weight going on not a big overhang. It wouldn’t take that much weight off the pin even if it was on steel.
And before you mention heavy pallets, these would go against the head board and not right at the back. Just like you’d load a 45 footer.I used to pull these trailers day in day out. Never had any problems on the roads, motorways or other. Never experienced any of the problems you imagine them to have.
In regards to the original vid and without seeing what the driver sees in front then I’d have to say it’s the trucks fault.
Looks to me like he positioned the trailer to compensate for cut in but with the rear steer he needn’t have. There is very little cut in so could probably have positioned closer to the side of the road to allow for more tail swing.
So you increase the air pressure in the rear steer you think that will reduce the axle weight and transfer it onto the pin
A trailer manufacturer with an obvious interest in trying to defy the laws of fulcrum points.
The van and unfortunate truck driver in this case paid the price.
At least unlike him I wouldn’t have it on my record because I’d have refused to drive it.
Oh ■■■■ off you clown!