could some1 please help me with some info■■?
i work for a small plant hire firm and have a little peugeot 206 van which the company give me to use.we also use astra and ■■■■■■ vans.
i have to fill 20 litre jerry cans with red diesel for my jcb 3cx.
at times i have over 200 litres of red diesel in the back of my van which let alone looks very overweight must surely be very illegal.
could someone please tell me the legal limits for carrying red diesel in little vans like this■■?
would be muchly apprieciated…
200 liters=200kg plus the cans
Put some in your fuel tank then you can say your using it for business purposes which is legit.
Tell us how you get on.
Saaamon:
Put some in your fuel tank then you can say your using it for business purposes which is legit.
Huh?
Absent prior permission from HM Revenue and Customs (which invariably involves an arrangement to pay the relevant duty), red diesel can only be used to propel road-going vehicles in limited circumstances. The available exemptions certainly will not cover a van operated by a plant hire company, which must use DERV. Putting red diesel in the van’s fuel tank is only going to create further problems.
Hopefully someone with experience with ADR can comment on the legality of transporting the red diesel in the van. There’s at least two qualified DGSAs in these forums - dieseldave is one.
I’m not sure about the ADR side of it but a quick Google suggests an Astra van has a 650kg load capacity so you are well within that.
Diesel fuel has a specific gravity of around 0.85 so 200 litres would weigh 170kg.
Maybe hill33 is no stranger to a burger van…
djw:
Saaamon:
Put some in your fuel tank then you can say your using it for business purposes which is legit.Huh?
Absent prior permission from HM Revenue and Customs (which invariably involves an arrangement to pay the relevant duty), red diesel can only be used to propel road-going vehicles in limited circumstances. The available exemptions certainly will not cover a van operated by a plant hire company, which must use DERV. Putting red diesel in the van’s fuel tank is only going to create further problems.
Hopefully someone with experience with ADR can comment on the legality of transporting the red diesel in the van. There’s at least two qualified DGSAs in these forums - dieseldave is one.
Think/hope Saaamon was joking about putting red in the tank
200 litres in approved containers which have a capacity that totals no more than 200 litres. ie you can’t put 200l in a 1000l ibc.
hill33:
could some1 please help me with some info■■?
i work for a small plant hire firm and have a little peugeot 206 van which the company give me to use.we also use astra and ■■■■■■ vans.
i have to fill 20 litre jerry cans with red diesel for my jcb 3cx.
at times i have over 200 litres of red diesel in the back of my van which let alone looks very overweight must surely be very illegal.
could someone please tell me the legal limits for carrying red diesel in little vans like this■■?
would be muchly apprieciated…
Hi hill33, 
If your concerned about the weight, then Harry has given you a good answer, but if your concern is to do with ADR…
The ADR threshold limit for Diesel (Red or white) is 1,000 liters, so if you drive an Astravan, you’ve no problem with ADR apart from needing an ADR compliant 2kg dry powder fire extinguisher on board.
MADBAZ:
200 litres in approved containers which have a capacity that totals no more than 200 litres. ie you can’t put 200l in a 1000l ibc.
Hi MADBAZ,
I’m not sure where you’re getting the “200 litres” from, but the ADR threshold limit for Diesel is 1,000 litres.
ADR only looks at the amount loaded, it does not stipulate the size of the receptacle.
Eg. If you have 200 litres in a 1,000 litre IBC, then you’re still well within the 1,000 litre threshold for Diesel, because you’ve still only got 200 litres on board.
dieseldave:
MADBAZ:
200 litres in approved containers which have a capacity that totals no more than 200 litres. ie you can’t put 200l in a 1000l ibc.Hi MADBAZ,
I’m not sure where you’re getting the “200 litres” from, but the ADR threshold limit for Diesel is 1,000 litres.
ADR only looks at the amount loaded, it does not stipulate the size of the receptacle.
Eg. If you have 200 litres in a 1,000 litre IBC, then you’re still well within the 1,000 litre threshold for Diesel, because you’ve still only got 200 litres on board.
I’m not sure either, but I rmember it from somewhere, obviously misinformed. Cheers Dave.
MADBAZ:
dieseldave:
MADBAZ:
200 litres in approved containers which have a capacity that totals no more than 200 litres. ie you can’t put 200l in a 1000l ibc.Hi MADBAZ,
I’m not sure where you’re getting the “200 litres” from, but the ADR threshold limit for Diesel is 1,000 litres.
ADR only looks at the amount loaded, it does not stipulate the size of the receptacle.
Eg. If you have 200 litres in a 1,000 litre IBC, then you’re still well within the 1,000 litre threshold for Diesel, because you’ve still only got 200 litres on board.
Hi MADBAZ,
I’ve heard this 200 litres thing before (at different times and from different people) so maybe there’s a grain of truth in it somewhere??
I was being my normal self and keeping my answer to what ADR allows as cargo these days. 
dieseldave:
MADBAZ:
dieseldave:
MADBAZ:
200 litres in approved containers which have a capacity that totals no more than 200 litres. ie you can’t put 200l in a 1000l ibc.Hi MADBAZ,
I’m not sure where you’re getting the “200 litres” from, but the ADR threshold limit for Diesel is 1,000 litres.
ADR only looks at the amount loaded, it does not stipulate the size of the receptacle.
Eg. If you have 200 litres in a 1,000 litre IBC, then you’re still well within the 1,000 litre threshold for Diesel, because you’ve still only got 200 litres on board.
Hi MADBAZ,
I’ve heard this 200 litres thing before (at different times and from different people) so maybe there’s a grain of truth in it somewhere??
I was being my normal self and keeping my answer to what ADR allows as cargo these days.
Is someone getting mixed up with 80% and ullage and getting the calculation wrong?
If so wouldn’t an IBC allow 98%?
Wheel Nut:
dieseldave:
MADBAZ:
dieseldave:
MADBAZ:
200 litres in approved containers which have a capacity that totals no more than 200 litres. ie you can’t put 200l in a 1000l ibc.Hi MADBAZ,
I’m not sure where you’re getting the “200 litres” from, but the ADR threshold limit for Diesel is 1,000 litres.
ADR only looks at the amount loaded, it does not stipulate the size of the receptacle.
Eg. If you have 200 litres in a 1,000 litre IBC, then you’re still well within the 1,000 litre threshold for Diesel, because you’ve still only got 200 litres on board.
Hi MADBAZ,
I’ve heard this 200 litres thing before (at different times and from different people) so maybe there’s a grain of truth in it somewhere??
I was being my normal self and keeping my answer to what ADR allows as cargo these days.
Is someone getting mixed up with 80% and ullage and getting the calculation wrong?
If so wouldn’t an IBC allow 98%?
HI Malc,
I’m not sure what the ullage figure for Diesel is, but surely it would be the same figure regardless of whether the Diesel is in a receptacle or a tanker??
Be gentle, what’s red diesel
Assume it’s red but why ?
Red diesel is diesel fuel containing a marker indicating duty has not been paid for use in road-going vehicles. It is therefore much cheaper than DERV, ‘white’ diesel for Diesel Engined Road Vehicles. If you are caught with red in the fuel tank of a road-going vehicle, HM Revenue and Customs will take action against you.
‘Red’ has various uses, including powering the fridge unit on refrigerated trailers and, in this case, powering plant machinery.
Wannabeheretolearn:
Be gentle, what’s red diesel
Assume it’s red but why ?
Hi wannabeheretolearn,
djw has given you a great answer, but I’ll add a little to it…
Red Diesel is known as ‘rebated’ Diesel, so that the purchasers of it don’t pay so much tax on it. (Hence the word “rebate.”)
Red diesel is normal diesel, but there’s a red (looks more like pink) dye added to it so that HMRC can tell whether the Diesel is being used legitimately. HMRC can require a driver to allow them to draw off a small sample for roadside testing, so it’s quite easy for them to catch wrongdoers.
As has been said, red Diesel is legitimately used in many kinds of plant and equipment, but it’s biggest use is probably in agricultural activities. There is a legally allowed list of people/activities/vehicle types that are allowed to use red Diesel, but ordinary folk must use normal Diesel, which is usually a yellowish colour. (And rather expensive!! 
)
As a rough rule of thumb, it’s (very) illegal to use red Diesel to power a normal road vehicle.
Thanks , you learn a little every day, the day you stop learning is the day you stop living 
Wannabeheretolearn:
Thanks , you learn a little every day, the day you stop learning is the day you stop living
And it isn’t always Red in colour, most countries use a dye to distinguish between rebated fuel and fully taxed fuel and customs are wise to the fact that many fill up on agricultural fuel when abroad.
I was dipped several years ago and they told me which Russian refinery the fuel was made at 
Wheel Nut:
And it isn’t always Red in colour, most countries use a dye to distinguish between rebated fuel and fully taxed fuel and customs are wise to the fact that many fill up on agricultural fuel when abroad.
The analysis of rebated fuel is much more sophisticated than the coloured dye (which isn’t red in all countries) - though if the sample from your tank is visibly dyed, you’ve got a problem! The invisible markers are there to catch out those chemically treating rebated fuel to remove the visible dyes - including criminal gangs who sell vast quantities of tampered fuel, dumping drums of acidic waste illegally and possibly damaging the engines of their (sometimes unwitting) customers with the residual acid in the fuel.
Sophisticated chemical analysis will always reveal tampered rebated fuel, though not every sample is subjected to that sort of analysis. An High Performance Liquid Chromatography setup isn’t that large or expensive - easily transportable in a mobile lab. If you want to know more about the dyes, this web page is interesting and not too technical.
The official HMRC guidance note on rebated fuels can be read here.