I’m sure the original problem has been solved now but just in case anyone is reading in regard to doing TM CPC. As someone who is definatly quite unmotivated I would find getting the notes and home study very very difficult. (I have always had “easily distracted” written on my school reports and spend a lot of time wondering what the buttons do when i’m driving a new lorry). I recently did TM CPC and there is A LOT to go through. If possible I would recommend to go through a course of some kind. While the EOS notes are good they are written mainly in paragraph form and to have someone there to make key points was massively helpful to me. Also the marking in the R2 case study exam can be very specific so while the answer might be written clearly and you know the right stuff,if it written in the wrong format then you lose a lot of marks.Just a heads up that might be of use to someone.
Paul:
Anyway VOSA decided to do a spot check on thursday and went through everything, a real jobsworth. A few issues have arisen, but the main one being that the company is operating on the wrong O licence and now needs to apply for an Unrestricted O licence.
We manufacture goods and I deliver them, then I collect goods from our customers that we refurbish for them. This is where the problem with the restricted O licence comes in. Because the goods I collect to bring back to our company are not the property or our company we are breaching the restricted O licence as we are using the vehicle for hire and reward according to the jobsworth VOSA guy.Paul
So jobs worth because he’s doing his JOB 
So the company is working against the law and your ok about it■■?
Think you should be lucky it’s been addressed before something serious happened and all insurance was made invalid
Hi all, wondering if anyone can help me out with the above? Will explain as briefly as possible.
Ive been a class 1 driver now for over 20 years both UK and International but due to circumstances I took redundancy last year. Since xmas I have been driving a 7.5 tonner for a small engineering company earning more than I can on a class 1 but I have never been interested in anything but the driving side of things so never looked into the legal side of things regarding O licence, CPC or duties as a transport manager.
The company I am working for have 2x7.5 tonners and a transit flatbed (non tacho) on a restricted O licence as at least up until yesterday they thought they were only carrying their own goods. They dont have an appointed transport manager as such and no one withing the company is a CPC holder. Im not to sure with a restricted O licence a CPC holder is required or an appointed transport manager.
Anyway VOSA decided to do a spot check on thursday and went through everything, a real jobsworth. A few issues have arisen, but the main one being that the company is operating on the wrong O licence and now needs to apply for an Unrestricted O licence.
We manufacture goods and I deliver them, then I collect goods from our customers that we refurbish for them. This is where the problem with the restricted O licence comes in. Because the goods I collect to bring back to our company are not the property or our company we are breaching the restricted O licence as we are using the vehicle for hire and reward according to the jobsworth VOSA guy.
What I would like to know is when applying for an unrestricted O licence do the company have to have a CPC holder and an appointed transport manager? Any ideas on how quick it is to get a CPC? the cost? and any recomended companies to look at to take the CPC with?
My boss is thinking about putting me forward for the CPC and act as the transport manager as I have been in transport most of my working life and he feels that I would at least have some knowledge and a better understanding of the laws. I dont have a problem with taking the CPC or being the transport manager as everything is run legal, any problems with the trucks and they are fixed straight away, no running bent and trucks serviced and inspected as they should be.
Thanks
Paul
A restricted licence holder doesn’t need to employ a CPC Holder.
Your company have 2 immediate options, either stop collecting the customers goods for refurb or employ a transport manager / cpc holder. The first option could be put into place by Monday morning, the second option will take longer as this would be a new application that would involve financial proof and an operating centre with maintenance facilities.
You are in a good position to gain your CPC and have it paid for, there are residential courses that can almost guarantee a pass through intense tutoring.
However, there are only 4 exams per year and you have just missed the June exam and if you don’t do it this year, things are changing.
(See Below)
In future, from a specified date, all new candidates taking the Transport Manager CPC exams will be required to also pass the international element. However, those who held a National CPC on the date specified will continue to be authorised to manage domestic operations and will be permitted to sit the international element to ‘upgrade’ to the full CPC qualification if they wish to be named on an international operator licence.
Thanks Malc
I have a mate who has a CPC and is willing to act as TM until we can get someone on a CPC course. My next question then is, if we appointed my mate as a TM could we just change the O licence form restricted to Unrestricted immediately or would we still have to apply for a new one and go through the whole process as if we where first time applicants?
Not being able to collect goods for refurb could cost us either a lot in paying transport companies to collect for us or us losing the work and inevitably possibly jobs so we need to get the O licence sorted ASAP.
Paul
You need to download form GV80A from this link
online.businesslink.gov.uk/Tran … ehicle.pdf
It will take about 9 weeks to transfer the licence, but there may be a way of getting an interim licence a little quicker.
One thing, I was wrong about, you do not need to advertise the application to the general public. I will edit my original post to that effect.
Good Luck
The next exams are; 9th September 2011 and 2nd December 2011. Book Early 
Wheel Nut:
A restricted licence holder doesn’t need to employ a CPC Holder.
That is normally the case, but a TC can make you have a CPC holder if he finds you to be breaking the rules even on a restricted licence!
Option 3, buy the products for refurb and sell them back when returned.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Fileep:
Wheel Nut:
A restricted licence holder doesn’t need to employ a CPC Holder.That is normally the case, but a TC can make you have a CPC holder if he finds you to be breaking the rules even on a restricted licence!
That is true, but a TC can make you wear a gimp mask if it pleases them 
They have the ultimate power if you have anything to do with lorries or vocational licences.
bazstan009:
Option 3, buy the products for refurb and sell them back when returned.
What he said. ^ ^
Buy the products, refurb them, then sell back at cost + usual refurb cost.
That way, you are carrying your own goods & you can carry on as you were and stick a finger up at the jobsworth.
On the other hand, if you become the TM, a) Are you going to get an enhancement for the extra duties & responsibility? and b) Could it lead to issues of an employee (you) telling your boss what he must do & spend?
Driveroneuk:
bazstan009:
Option 3, buy the products for refurb and sell them back when returned.What he said. ^ ^
Buy the products, refurb them, then sell back at cost + usual refurb cost.
That way, you are carrying your own goods & you can carry on as you were and stick a finger up at the jobsworth.
I think now the company come up on the VOSA Radar anything like that might be seen as provocative, especially as this person seems a right jobsworth, but then that is the letter of the law even though I reckon they were following the spirit of the law. they weren’t out there tendering for transport work, just doing it as part of the complete job.
Driveroneuk:
On the other hand, if you become the TM, a) Are you going to get an enhancement for the extra duties & responsibility? and b) Could it lead to issues of an employee (you) telling your boss what he must do & spend?
Many Employees tell their boss what to spend, or have to sort out yearly budgets with thier boss.
Part of my duties is to make sure the company vehicles are safe, legal and ready to be used. My boss doesn’t always like it when I say that something has to be done, although sometimes I just get it done and he gets the bill. 
but it was him that said he wants everything to be right. Although I’ve still got a few minor things to sort out, but admin stuff really.
Don’t think you need to re-apply for an O/Licence if your just upgrading and everything else is to remain the same, just nominate the TM, fill in the forms, and send off the cash 
.
As for the liitle jobsworth and the hassal he’s causing, he’s wrong in pricipal but has obviously spotted something that made his day , did you specify on the invoices to customers a collection/del charge in addition to the refurb work?
muckles:
Driveroneuk:
bazstan009:
Option 3, buy the products for refurb and sell them back when returned.What he said. ^ ^
Buy the products, refurb them, then sell back at cost + usual refurb cost.
That way, you are carrying your own goods & you can carry on as you were and stick a finger up at the jobsworth.I think now the company come up on the VOSA Radar anything like that might be seen as provocative, especially as this person seems a right jobsworth, but then that is the letter of the law even though I reckon they were following the spirit of the law. they weren’t out there tendering for transport work, just doing it as part of the complete job.
Driveroneuk:
On the other hand, if you become the TM, a) Are you going to get an enhancement for the extra duties & responsibility? and b) Could it lead to issues of an employee (you) telling your boss what he must do & spend?Many Employees tell their boss what to spend, or have to sort out yearly budgets with thier boss.
Part of my duties is to make sure the company vehicles are safe, legal and ready to be used. My boss doesn’t always like it when I say that something has to be done, although sometimes I just get it done and he gets the bill.
but it was him that said he wants everything to be right. Although I’ve still got a few minor things to sort out, but admin stuff really.
I have already suggested we buy them back or that the companies give us ownership but the boss reckons they cant do that, not only that but sometimes we get a phonecall when I’m on the road asking for goods to be collected that day because a machine has gone down and to transfer ownership or buy the goods back will take too long.
I already do my own route planning depending on what deliveries are going out for the week, account for my own tacho records and such so there wont be much more to do than I am already doing so dont mind the extra work load obviously with an increase in my wages for the extra responsibility.
Thanks for all your answers and suggestions so far
Paul
Big Joe:
Don’t think you need to re-apply for an O/Licence if your just upgrading and everything else is to remain the same, just nominate the TM, fill in the forms, and send off the cash
As for the liitle jobsworth and the hassal he’s causing, he’s wrong in pricipal but has obviously spotted something that made his day
The re-applying isnt really an issue but its having someone with a CPC that we can nominate as the TM that is the problem at the moment. As I have said and suggested to my boss I have a mate who has a CPC and was a TM but now just has his own van doing courier work and is prepared to act as a TM for us and although that may work in the short term the boss wants someone who actually works for the company rather than a consultant type figure.
Yes we do invoice a collection/delivery charge and although this could be incorporated into the price this jobsworth has already taken a copy of recent invoices and if we were to just include the delivery charge into the whole job he will soon pick up on that.
Thanks
Paul
Paul:
Big Joe:
Don’t think you need to re-apply for an O/Licence if your just upgrading and everything else is to remain the same, just nominate the TM, fill in the forms, and send off the cash
As for the liitle jobsworth and the hassal he’s causing, he’s wrong in pricipal but has obviously spotted something that made his dayThe re-applying isnt really an issue but its having someone with a CPC that we can nominate as the TM that is the problem at the moment. As I have said and suggested to my boss I have a mate who has a CPC and was a TM but now just has his own van doing courier work and is prepared to act as a TM for us and although that may work in the short term the boss wants someone who actually works for the company rather than a consultant type figure.
Yes we do invoice a collection/delivery charge and although this could be incorporated into the price this jobsworth has already taken a copy of recent invoices and if we were to just include the delivery charge into the whole job he will soon pick up on that.Thanks
Paul
Seems to me to be the best way to get things back running ASAP, apply for a change of licence, with him as CPC holder try and get an interim licence.
and at the same time you prepare to do your CPC.
Paul:
Yes we do invoice a collection/delivery charge and although this could be incorporated into the price this jobsworth has already taken a copy of recent invoices and if we were to just include the delivery charge into the whole job he will soon pick up on that.Thanks
Paul
Thats whats caused the problem, your charging out for the haulage so its hire and reward. From now on incorporate the charge into the refurbishment cost without any mention of haulage on invoices or quotes, jobs a good un. Do this and the little scote will not be able to take action on future movements, but your immediate danger is he may pass forward his evidence for action to be taken on previous movements, doing an immediate upgrade may head this off, or in the worst case look good in your favour if action is to be taken.
businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … =RESOURCES
No charge for an upgrade 
, upto nine weeks wait though 
Just to add my tuppence worth, we applied for an interim licence, and were told that it might take as long to come through as the normal one! 
Different reason for the interim though - change of operating centre, so not sure if this has any bearing?
It definitely pays to ring the Traffic Office periodically though to chase things up, as in my (limited) experience stuff tends to get ‘mislaid’ and it takes forever to get it all sorted out. I realise you may wish to keep your head beneath the parapet, but they have already got you on their target list, so the most important thing is to sort it out as quickly as possible. Before, you might have been able to say ‘we didn’t know as we had no CPC holder (whose job it is to know).’ Now, they have told you, so you don’t have ignorance as an excuse. Keep a record of any chasing phone calls etc, and then if they were to call you / your company in to tribunal, at least you can hold your head up and say you have been trying your best. From what I can tell from reading up on tribunals etc in Commercial Motor and other places, this does count for a lot.
The worst thing you can do, is sit back and do nothing. The TC’s REALLY don’t have much patience for people who don’t even try to do the right thing. I wouldn’t suggest trying to sweep it under the carpet. They have you on the hit list, and you are currently operating outside the terms of your restricted licence. If they take the licence off your company, YOU could be out of a job, as they will have to subcontract the haulage for two or three months, longer perhaps if the company has to go to tribunal and beg for the licence back.
Best of luck, let us all know how it works out.
Helen Stevens:
Just to add my tuppence worth, we applied for an interim licence, and were told that it might take as long to come through as the normal one!
It definitely pays to ring the Traffic Office periodically though to chase things up, as in my (limited) experience stuff tends to get ‘mislaid’ and it takes forever to get it all sorted out. I realise you may wish to keep your head beneath the parapet, but they have already got you on their target list, so the most important thing is to sort it out as quickly as possible. Before, you might have been able to say ‘we didn’t know as we had no CPC holder (whose job it is to know).’ Now, they have told you, so you don’t have ignorance as an excuse. Keep a record of any chasing phone calls etc, and then if they were to call you / your company in to tribunal, at least you can hold your head up and say you have been trying your best. From what I can tell from reading up on tribunals etc in Commercial Motor and other places, this does count for a lot.The worst thing you can do, is sit back and do nothing. The TC’s REALLY don’t have much patience for people who don’t even try to do the right thing. I wouldn’t suggest trying to sweep it under the carpet. They have you on the hit list, and you are currently operating outside the terms of your restricted licence. If they take the licence off your company, YOU could be out of a job, as they will have to subcontract the haulage for two or three months, longer perhaps if the company has to go to tribunal and beg for the licence back.
Best of luck, let us all know how it works out.
Good Advice Helen.
About the interim licence, I was under that impression too, but our moderator, / owner driver Repton managed to get an interim in fairly short order.
The rest of what you say is true, but if that GV80 form I linked to is already completed (even with a part time TM) and in the post, that is taking the bull by the horns firmly I think.
If you can trust anyone on an internet forum. then Paul and his boss seem to be on the right track and wanting to do it correctly!
Wheel Nut:
About the interim licence, I was under that impression too, but our moderator, / owner driver Repton managed to get an interim in fairly short order.
Nope, what Helen said was about right. It took something like 9 weeks to get my interim through then the full one came about a week later.
Paul
Wheel Nut:
Good Advice Helen.
Praise indeed off a senior member! And Repton too. Thanks guys. It’s always nice to get a pat on the head! 