Training queries

[m1cky]

Hi Ladies and Gents,

I’m a newly registered member and currently undergoing training, first post so be gentle. I’ve used the search function, but, haven’t found (may have missed it) what I’m curious about. This may be a bit long winded, so do please bear with me.

Bit of background information first, I’m male, star sign is Leo, I like, ■■■■ wrong intro.

I’m currently doing my Cat C training with a local company, that I approached myself. I’ll refrain from naming them as I don’t think it’s called for. There’s probably nothing wrong with how things are going/being done, but, it’s obviously a big outlay £ wise that I’m paying.

I’d done the usual newbie thing of, search Google, click link, see website full of bells and whistle claims, request info, be called incessantly by person etc etc, the website in question is listed on here - I wish I’d found this fine place sooner as I would have saved myself some time and brain cells.

Anyhow, I had an assessment drive with one of their instructors, didn’t go too badly in the grand scheme of things. Recommendation was 6 days training with test on the 6th day. They’d iron out the bad habit’s I’d acquired on the 1st day, you know how it is.

I started my training on Monday, (11/3), my Mod 4 CPC test was today, (13/3), my practical test is Monday coming, (18/3).

OK, Monday comes and I find out that it’s myself and another lad training together, 2-1 I believe it’s referred to. That’s fair enough with me, everyone has to learn somewhere, and we could both learn from each others mistakes, etc. Thing is, the other lad was on his practical test on Tuesday. So from the off, I was at a bit of a disadvantage - what I mean by that is the instructor said, “Watch -insert name here-, he’s a good driver.” Okey doke, the other lad was driving first, when it’s my turn to drive I’ll get talked through a few things.

It didn’t really turn out that way. Climb into the drivers seat and, “OK when you’re ready pull away.” This might well have been so the instructor could carry out his own assessment.

The day went on swapping driver’s over as you do, not really getting any critique as to my driving performance. If I’m doing something wrong, I expect as a learner, to be told about it. Mainly all I got told was mirrors, mirrors, mirrors. Granted very important that you maintain, best as possible, all round observation, but checking mirrors when passing change of speed limit signs? At the end of the day nothing was reviewed about my driving, I should maybe learn to force the issue though, for all I can be a bolshi so and so amongst friends, it’s the complete opposite regarding people I don’t know. Get back to training centre and go through the CPC questions and get shown how to do a dolly knot.

Tuesday comes and it’s a similar situation to Monday. Similar situation to Monday, lad sitting his test that day started off the driving, “Watch him, he’s a very good driver.” I’d agree he is a very good driver, but, there isn’t a great deal that I can observe as I can’t see through flesh and bone. I then lost an hour or so whilst the other lad was on his test, and then had the drive back to the training centre. The other lad passed his practical with only 3 minors, so I was pleased for him. All I was really told that I was doing wrong was that I was a bit hot onto roundabouts and that I was also too hesitant onto them.

Onto today, I find out that I’m with a different instructor for the day, well half day. Was just one on one tuition, which was good as I need actual seat time. Today went well, not too many mistakes though. Today I was being told a lot more of where I was going wrong, which wasn’t a great deal more than I’d been already told, but it’s good to know.

For those that have made it this far, congratulations and thank you. I passed the Mod 4 CPC with 100%.

Now to the whole point of my post.

What’s best practice when passing change of speed limit signs whilst on test?
Instructor 1 wanted me to check N/S and O/S mirrors when passing them, Instructor 2 was happy that after I’d verified what speed limit change we’d just passed that I verbally acknowledged it, even though on both counts I was adjusting my speed accordingly.

I’m with a 3rd different instructor tomorrow and Friday, and if they tell me something different again, then I think my head will explode.

Thanks in advance.

Micky

[paul_pstt]

Hi Micky,

Your description of 2:1 training is the reason I wont do it. But let’s not go there.

Checking mirrors at a speed limit sign. Absolutely no reason to do so and total nonsense. If you weren’t sure what the speed limit was on the road that you’ve just driven on, then a glance at the sign will either reassure you or let you know you were wrong.

There are 3 main occasions for checking mirrors - and these are listed on the DL25 Test Report form.

BEFORE:
Changing speed
Changing direction
Signalling

Note that “speed limit sign” doesn’t come on the list. It is true that you might be changing speed at a speed limit sign - but also perfectly possible that you can’t change speed. Eg coming from a single carriageway national speed limit (40mph for trucks) into a 40 zone.

There are other occasions when mirror checks are required but these are marked under “awareness and planning” ( I don’t know why!)

Seems you haven’t got the most structured training experience going on; I would be asking questions and expressing my views. They seem to be very much in the business of “bums on seats” and that aint the way to get results. Having said that, the guy before you passed comfortably.

Hope it all comes right for you. Don’t hesitate to ask for advice.

Pete

[contraflow]

m1cky:
I passed the Mod 4 CPC with 100%.

Congratulations, good score. All the best for Monday.

[m1cky]

Hi Pete,

Cheers for the advice, much appreciated.

I don’t think it’s “bums on seats” as such, more that tests have fell in the way, certainly yesterday that was the case.

I’ll see how it goes today. I much preferred the 1-1 yesterday, but, it would have been better had it been a full day.

Cheers Contraflow.

I’ll report back later,

Micky

[rog]

Changing instructors is a big no no IMO - it can confuse the trainee too much

So far it seems as though no instructor has adapted to your way of learning

1 to 1 or 2 to 1 is matter of personal choice for the trainee and it can work with differing levels but it takes a good instructor to use 2 to 1 effectively for both trainees

[chevmac]

Got to agree with Peter on his post - in my opinion the fact you’re having at least 3 instructors within 5 days training is a little worrying, it’s important for the trainee to have consistancy throughout and this is very difficult as you will almost certainly be given different information.

Good luck for your test.

John

[paul_pstt]

I’ve just this thread again and, I must admit, I do come over very negative. I stick to what I said but to clarify: each individual instructor could be excellent. But there’s more than one way to skin a rabbit and the mix of instructors is normally very unwise and should only happen in dire emergency.

If it’s test gettting in the way, that’s the same as bums on seats. All they’re trying to do is maximise the revenue on that vehicle. The trouble is that it appears to be at the cost of the OP and his structured training. It’s not right or fair IMO.

I would be having a word.

Pete

[rog]

Peter Smythe:
I’ve just this thread again and, I must admit, I do come over very negative. I stick to what I said but to clarify: each individual instructor could be excellent. But there’s more than one way to skin a rabbit and the mix of instructors is normally very unwise and should only happen in dire emergency.

If it’s test gettting in the way, that’s the same as bums on seats. All they’re trying to do is maximise the revenue on that vehicle. The trouble is that it appears to be at the cost of the OP and his structured training. It’s not right or fair IMO.

I would be having a word.

Pete

If its tests then in my experience it makes no odds if the trainee is warmed up and taken to test by another supervising driver/instructor providing they do not change anything that the regular instructor has said
Pointing out a lack of mirror work or approach speed is different but not to go overboard on it
The supervising driver taking the trainee to test should say as little as possible if not their regular instructor

[kevchalluk]

On my Cat C training, I was told to check mirrors before slowing down at a speed limit sign - from a 40 to a 30 for example - and also when accelerating after leaving a 30 into a 40. It’s good practice to get into the habit I think, so you know what’s going on with the traffic behind you, and it certainly won’t harm you in the test situation to be seen doing it.

[rog]

kevchalluk:
On my Cat C training, I was told to check mirrors before slowing down at a speed limit sign - from a 40 to a 30 for example - and also when accelerating after leaving a 30 into a 40. It’s good practice to get into the habit I think, so you know what’s going on with the traffic behind you, and it certainly won’t harm you in the test situation to be seen doing it.

Makes sense to check mirrors before changing speed or direction

[kevchalluk]

There was another member on here who had a couple of trainers recently, and I think they failed. Can’t imagine how any decent training school would think that is ever a good way to get people through the test?!

[dar1976]

On the other hand… (I’m never one for controversy ).

When I did my Cat C, I did it 2:1 and was pleased that I did it that way.

The major difference was that my colleague for the week had a similar level of experience so we learned from each other and took the test one after the other. Moral support all the way through. Trainer was able to give equal time to us both.

I would never suggest CE as a 2:1 course though.

Well done on getting 100% on your Mod4. Let’s hope you get a good result Monday.

I don’t get this practice of changing instructors 2 or 3 times during your training though. It’s just wrong. Part of the training experience is building a rapport with your instructor so they can give you targeted training to your level. Every time you change trainers, you are having to learn the way that they are teaching you, and if they are giving conflicting information, then you are setting yourself up to fail.

Anyone in this situation should think about this…

YOU paid good money to be trained to pass, not to be messed around. If you are happy to be messed around, carry on like a sheep. If not, confront the Training Manager and question the way YOUR money is being spent.

[kevchalluk]

I can understand 2:1 if you’re both starting from scratch, as the same tuition will - broadly speaking - apply to both candidates at the same time through the week. But 2:1 as outlined above, with a change of instructor thrown in and an hour wasted at the test station, sounds like carnage!

[m1cky]

Peter Smythe:
If it’s test gettting in the way, that’s the same as bums on seats. All they’re trying to do is maximise the revenue on that vehicle. The trouble is that it appears to be at the cost of the OP and his structured training. It’s not right or fair IMO.

Hi Pete, and everyone else contributing.

When I say it’s tests getting in the way, I probably didn’t word it very well. I think it’s because others have had whoever when they took their test so are then with them for their re-test.

I’ve been in the same truck all week, so it’s not bums on seats in that sense, although I do see where you’re coming from. I agree, it’s far from ideal keep swapping instructors, but, it’s really out of my hands. I would have much preferred to start and finish with one instructor.

I was happier today and yesterday with, erm, “Bill” and “Ben”, than I was on Monday/Tuesday with, erm, “Bert”. *

I was out with my 3rd instructor today. 1-1 training, but, there was another lad with us observing as he’s taking a re-test tomorrow in a different truck. So this morning I was driving the same truck I have been all week, then at about lunch time we went back, swapped into the truck he’d learnt in and is taking his re-test in tomorrow; familiarity of vehicles and all that malarkey, then I spent the afternoon observing how he did things.

I don’t think he’s going to pass tomorrow, and it’s not down to instruction. He either just can’t drive for toffee or hasn’t the mental fortitude for it, maybe a bit of both, in my humble opinion. It comes to something when he doesn’t know simple things like how to work the heaters, or that indicators self cancel.

I’m going for a clean sweep tomorrow with my 4th instructor of the week, as I’m out with “Ernie”*. Maybe I’ve scared all the rest too much that they won’t come out with me? Jesting aside, the only concern that “Ben” had is that I’m trying to go too fast up the 'box at times, and that I need to take a little more care on roundabouts as I twice nudged a kerb. My driving has “flowed” better these last 2 days, although I’m still a bit hesitant at some roundabouts. It’s better to take my time there though, as opposed to trying to get onto them as I would in my car or a van.

Lets see how tomorrow goes and I’ll report back with my next riveting instalment.

Thanks for all the input, it’s very much appreciated.

Micky

* Names and locations have been changed to protect the innocent/incompetent. Delete as applicable, my decision is on hold.

[paul_pstt]

Just hope you manage to pull out a pass despite this carry on.

It’s just about bad enough to being demanding a refund IMO.

Pete

[m1cky]

dar1976:
On the other hand… (I’m never one for controversy ).

Everyone likes a bit of controversy.

dar1976:
The major difference was that my colleague for the week had a similar level of experience so we learned from each other and took the test one after the other. Moral support all the way through. Trainer was able to give equal time to us both.

On Monday/Tuesday, I was on reflection, given as much attention as the other lad. We’re probably at about the same standard of driving, although he had more HGV experience than me as he is a truck fitter, where as I’ve spent the last 13 years or so driving vans.

Now if I’d been having to train for a whole week with the lad who I observed today, see my above post, then I would have got out and walked back. I don’t think I could have coped.

dar1976:
Well done on getting 100% on your Mod4. Let’s hope you get a good result Monday.

Thanks.

dar1976:
I don’t get this practice of changing instructors 2 or 3 times during your training though. It’s just wrong. Part of the training experience is building a rapport with your instructor so they can give you targeted training to your level. Every time you change trainers, you are having to learn the way that they are teaching you, and if they are giving conflicting information, then you are setting yourself up to fail.

It’s not ideal, and for most people it won’t work in the slightest. It seems to working OK for me, now that I’ve been told that I don’t have to check the mirrors every time I pass a sign, and that I don’t have to apply the handbrake when I stop for a second or two whilst in slow moving traffic. Like I say in my above post, now that I’m getting a bit more consistent information, my driving is becoming more fluid.

I’m fairly confident that IF I do fail my test, it will be down to me dropping a bollock; and not bad tuition.

dar1976:
Anyone in this situation should think about this…

YOU paid good money to be trained to pass, not to be messed around. If you are happy to be messed around, carry on like a sheep. If not, confront the Training Manager and question the way YOUR money is being spent.

Very sound advice, I’m paying for this myself. Thankfully I’m able to cope with a bit of chaos, just not too much.

[m1cky]

Peter Smythe:
Just hope you manage to pull out a pass despite this carry on.

It’s just about bad enough to being demanding a refund IMO.

Pete

Cheers Pete.

You fill me with so much confidence.

[kevchalluk]

You seem in good spirits about it, and prettyrelaxed/confident and that’s half the battle. If you were stressed and panicking you’d be in trouble!

[rog]

It is more important to leave the same instructor with the trainee on training than taking another trainee for test or retest

Usually the test or retest is a 1 hour-ish warm up prior to the test so does not require anything more than a ‘supervising driver’ in most cases

If the company are doing otherwise then their priorities are wrong

[paul_pstt]

You fill me with so much confidence.

I’m very good at that - but only by using proper training methods.

You do seem very resiliant and, sincerely, I hope you pass.

But I repeat that this set up seems a bit of a shambles.

Pete