Tragic News

caledoniandream:
it.s very sad for everybody involved.
But why does it take so bloody long, other countries in Europe don’t have mayor routes closed off for this kind of time.
Is the British police that thick that they need 6-7 hours for an accident ivestigations■■?

Or are you gone tell now that other countries don’t do any investigation into fatalities?? Dream on.

They are better off to give the family of the victims a million cash and clear the site because the country come to a standstill, because we have incompetent police working on this.
There is more than 40 people doing the investigation, so 6 hours x 40 = 240 hours investigation, when a girl in our town got het throat slashed they didn’t take that amount of time, but again, there was no chance to come on TV or the radio.

sod the body lets moan about the motorway being closed■■? :blush: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

Looks like that driver would of been better off staying at home yesterday has he has been arrested Two pedestrians killed on M6 in Cheshire - BBC News

Ofcourse its the truck drivers fault that two people were walking around on the motorway in the middle of the night, so he gets arrested for running them over.

So many times I see idiots sat on the motorway for no reason when they could quite easily drive on to the next junction,

Oh dear I have a flat tyre, hmm well its already ruined so is it really going to hurt trundling down the hard shoulder for 1miles to get to a safer area to change it or shall I sit here and risk causing an accident and wait for Mr AA Man to change it for me so I don’t get my hands dirty ?

Oh noes my exhaust fell off, I must stop and call a tow truck, I’ll not think about pulling it off and shoving it in the boot or tieing it up with a shoelace or belt.

etc etc. The majority of people driving around on the roads are complete and utter numpties and they bring accidents upon themselves by their actions and inability to think of the bigger picture.

mickyblue:

caledoniandream:
it.s very sad for everybody involved.
But why does it take so bloody long, other countries in Europe don’t have mayor routes closed off for this kind of time.
Is the British police that thick that they need 6-7 hours for an accident ivestigations■■?

Or are you gone tell now that other countries don’t do any investigation into fatalities?? Dream on.

They are better off to give the family of the victims a million cash and clear the site because the country come to a standstill, because we have incompetent police working on this.
There is more than 40 people doing the investigation, so 6 hours x 40 = 240 hours investigation, when a girl in our town got het throat slashed they didn’t take that amount of time, but again, there was no chance to come on TV or the radio.

sod the body lets moan about the motorway being closed■■? :blush: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

That’s not what i said if your read right, reading is an art as well, as you might know :cry:

I said that the police and the other organisations seems to be very incompetent, and not be able to deal proper with it.
It’s unbelieveble that other countries can do such a thing 10x quicker, open immidiatly at least one lane, ore open the central reservation and create a lane on the other side.
countries like France and Germany can deal with it, so why can they not deal with it here, maybe the authorities should come of their trone and have a look how other countries do it, maybe they could have a look at the same time, how the rest of the world deals with ice and snow.
Keeping people 6-7 hours on a motorway stuck doesn’t do anything for road safety, and may help us god that there has been no other acidents.
Took me 10hrs to come from Birmingham to Glasgow, and many a people where parked on hard shoulders etc to get a power nap to go on to their destination, not good poor organisation :imp: :imp:

renaultman:

paul b:
hold on a minute, some poor begger, a fellow wagon driver has the death of two pedestrians to live with, not to mention the two fellas who actually killed and all people can do is moan about the delays and lack of diversions? ffs!

At the end of the day Paul. The poor buggers are dead, and nothing will bring them back or ease the Driver’s conscience. My big fear is that all them people flying up the A6 A34 for example? Have been sat for ages and are stressed, late and basically P’d off. So not only are they trying to do motorway speeds on A roads through towns and villages, they are trying to make up the time they have lost too.
I foresee an occasion when a lot bigger accident will occur while people are being diverted round a fatality. With Cameras & GPS etc the Police should aim to record all the information they need to perform their investigation, then get the road open as soon as humanly possible so they don’t have to attend another one.
I’ll get off my soapbox now :blush:

but if you were the unfortunate driver involved and you’d done nothing wrong, would you want the police to collect all the evidence to prove that fact or just clean the mes up as quick as poss and leave you to argue your innocence at a later date?

I had the pleasure of running into this crap tonight at about 8.30pm. I came out of Coalville tonight, back of 7pm, totally oblivious as to what had happened as I had been sleeping all day, and lost nearly hour and half running up A34/A50. I phoned the HA up when I was amongst this crap to ask why no matrix between Coalville and M1-J24 was saying anything and the operator replied with snarky comments that theres only 1 matrix sign between them 2 points and they had LOCAL info on them, they didnt feel that the M6 problem was big enough as there was a matrix down at M1-J16 lit up with info, no use to me if coming out of M1-J22. Then I was promptly told I should be planning ahead anyways to which I verbally abused the ■■■■■■ on the phone as its obvious they have no interest to which I recieved a silent tone then a long beep… Useless ■■■■■. There were lorries scattered everywhere from J16 on the roundabout, along the A500, up A34 and the old A50. Litereally abandoned with curtains closed. This country has no back up plan when there are road closures. Its a farce.

Two men died when they were hit by a lorry on the M6 motorway in Cheshire.

They were struck on the northbound carriageway just after junction 17, Sandbach, at 1115 BST.

Police said a 60-year-old lorry driver, from Selby, North Yorkshire, has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

The northbound lanes of the motorway have been closed from junction 16, Crewe, to junction 18, Middlewich and Holmes Chapel.

The Highways Agency said they hoped to reopen the carriageway by 2300 BST.

Accident 11.15. Road clear 2300 maybe. Road closed for over 12hrs. This is just one example of an accident investigation system than needs a long overdue shake up.

Wait a minute.

Having been a driver involved in a fatal accident involving someone on the motorway, I can say that I know exactly how it feels. You NEED to know what happened, and you need to know if you could have done anything differently and avoided the accident in the first place. If they have to close the road to find out what happened then they do. If you are screwed over by it then you are. Believe me, they take no longer than they have to take to sort through it all. It is no more pleasant for them than it is for you, in fact it is an awful thing for the Police to have to sort out. You may have seen it, and slowed down to take a good look, but unless you have been up close to the damage a truck does to a person then you only have Hollywood ideas.
The whole mess has to be cleared up, the statements taken, the situation investigated…

I don’t know what happened. Harry has posted about the arrest so no doubt there will be repercussions, and the inevitable witchhunt. At the end of the day, 2 people haven’t gone home tonight, and other people are sitting stunned and bereaved. Maybe a little more thought for them and a little less moaning about the road being closed would be in order. Regardless, if the driver of the truck caused it or not, it is an awful accident. Another thing for the H&S people and VOSA to kick drivers with, but those folks are gone and it is simply awful.

For the record, they are no faster at sorting it anywhere else in my experience. I was sat for 4 hours on the QEW in Toronto recently, after someone ran across the highway and was killed, then they made us all reverse up to the previous junction. I have seen them shut the interstate heading into LA for hours after similar.

paul b:

renaultman:

paul b:
hold on a minute, some poor begger, a fellow wagon driver has the death of two pedestrians to live with, not to mention the two fellas who actually killed and all people can do is moan about the delays and lack of diversions? ffs!

At the end of the day Paul. The poor buggers are dead, and nothing will bring them back or ease the Driver’s conscience. My big fear is that all them people flying up the A6 A34 for example? Have been sat for ages and are stressed, late and basically P’d off. So not only are they trying to do motorway speeds on A roads through towns and villages, they are trying to make up the time they have lost too.
I foresee an occasion when a lot bigger accident will occur while people are being diverted round a fatality. With Cameras & GPS etc the Police should aim to record all the information they need to perform their investigation, then get the road open as soon as humanly possible so they don’t have to attend another one.
I’ll get off my soapbox now :blush:

but if you were the unfortunate driver involved and you’d done nothing wrong, would you want the police to collect all the evidence to prove that fact or just clean the mes up as quick as poss and leave you to argue your innocence at a later date?

I’m saying and I’ve said it loads of times. Surely it can be done more quickly? Photo’s GPS marking. Even mark the road and return later. I’m not suggesting scrape the bodies up drag the wreckage off the Mway and rive on. Just a way of focusing on getting Traffic moving again and keeping it on the Mway and of the A roads through towns and villages.
I’ve done it myself. Heading up/down the motorway loads of time no pressure. Suddenly everything stops, you don’t know what’s going on, you turn the cb on and hear the roads closed ahead, nearly an hour later you’re forced off the motorway with hundreds of other vehicles who haven’t got a clue where they are going, now I was lucky as most of the deadlines I operated to were self imposed. Planning breaks etc, but if you were booked into an RDC sensibly allowing an hour for incidents and this happens?
You’ve already lost your hour at least, now you have the traffic that was occupying 3 lanes at between 56 and 70mh now on 1 at between 40 and 60mph. All in a rush. and you know when you try to explain yourself to the booking in clerk what they’re gonna say.

i got there at 2am this morning. it looked alright to me.
But the gantry signs still said “LONG DELAYS”. :laughing:

bobthedog:
Wait a minute.

Having been a driver involved in a fatal accident involving someone on the motorway, I can say that I know exactly how it feels. You NEED to know what happened, and you need to know if you could have done anything differently and avoided the accident in the first place. If they have to close the road to find out what happened then they do. If you are screwed over by it then you are. Believe me, they take no longer than they have to take to sort through it all. It is no more pleasant for them than it is for you, in fact it is an awful thing for the Police to have to sort out. You may have seen it, and slowed down to take a good look, but unless you have been up close to the damage a truck does to a person then you only have Hollywood ideas.
The whole mess has to be cleared up, the statements taken, the situation investigated…

I don’t know what happened. Harry has posted about the arrest so no doubt there will be repercussions, and the inevitable witchhunt. At the end of the day, 2 people haven’t gone home tonight, and other people are sitting stunned and bereaved. Maybe a little more thought for them and a little less moaning about the road being closed would be in order. Regardless, if the driver of the truck caused it or not, it is an awful accident. Another thing for the H&S people and VOSA to kick drivers with, but those folks are gone and it is simply awful.

For the record, they are no faster at sorting it anywhere else in my experience. I was sat for 4 hours on the QEW in Toronto recently, after someone ran across the highway and was killed, then they made us all reverse up to the previous junction. I have seen them shut the interstate heading into LA for hours after similar.

How can it have been the truck drivers fault ? If the vehicle on the hard shoulder had been struck then it would be different. Quite clearly the pedestrians were somewhere they shouldn’t have been, if you go wandering around on a motorway in the pitch dark then its your own fault if you get run over, if the car has a problem then get it off the road at the next junction or if its undrivable then get up the bank or behind the barrier, just like the Hatos tell you.

This incident happenned at 11.15AM. It was not dark. The weather was good.

The Highway Man:

DaiDap:
I heard it was 2 hato’s that got killed.

I can categorically state that none of my colleagues have been harmed in this tragic incident. :frowning:

why carnt we switch these stupid matrix signs off and park all the hatos up for one week and just see how we survive then, i seriously think the whole traffic situations been made worse since all this crap was brought in how did we manage before complete waste of tax payers money just my opinion :imp:

barry woodcock:

The Highway Man:

DaiDap:
I heard it was 2 hato’s that got killed.

I can categorically state that none of my colleagues have been harmed in this tragic incident. :frowning:

why carnt we switch these stupid matrix signs off and park all the hatos up for one week and just see how we survive then, i seriously think the whole traffic situations been made worse since all this crap was brought in how did we manage before complete waste of tax payers money just my opinion :imp:

We “Trucknet” have been quoted as the source for the HATO story on a police forum which was refuted, it was posted by mondeoman.

However we know the media get it wrong occasionally, with at least two papers reporting 2 pedestrians being killed by a York driver on the M56 :open_mouth:

How does this story sound? and it probably explains a bit more, although not whose empty car was found abandoned on the motorway.

liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpoo … -27241444/

barry woodcock:
why carnt we switch these stupid matrix signs off and park all the hatos up for one week and just see how we survive then, i seriously think the whole traffic situations been made worse since all this crap was brought in how did we manage before complete waste of tax payers money just my opinion :imp:

Don’t mince your words Baz and say what you mean. Park us up by all means, one of a number of things will happen, if you get an offside blow out, you’ll be waiting a hell of a lot longer to get it changed as the police are stretched thin on the ground. You’ll also have to pay for the lane closure as I’ve been reliably informed that this service is chargeable - we do it for free. Debris will left in the carriageway for longer waiting to be removed. Plus a number of other things that we do, that you take for granted. This thread is not meant to be a HATO bashing exercise, it is to talk about the circumstances surrounding this terrible incident, not to have a snipe at a fellow road user. :wink:

Hi Barry, I see the alzheimer’s has kicked in again, but we’ll not go there!

When this sort of thing happens, we are as frustrated as yourselves to get the road reopened as soon as possible, and assist the police as much as we can to try to get that done quicker.
Once a serious RTC is reported and all the emergency services are deployed, it can take 10 - 15 mins before the decision is made to close the c/way whilst everyone gets there and the injuries are assessed. Meanwhile the M6 will back up 1 mile per minute on a normal busy day.
To close the motorway, you then need a minimum of 2 patrols at the junction, one on the main c/way, and one on the entry slip (drivers WILL move cones and go through if left to their own devices) for this particular incident, they would initially need 2 patrols at J16, and 2 patrols at J17 (using HATO patrols, freeing police to deal with the incident Barry)
Once it becomes obvious that this will go on for some time, diversion routes are assessed, sometimes needing a patrol to drive it to make sure there are no local blockages (another HATO patrol Barry, leaving the police to concentrate on the incident) then the diversion signs are set,including opening the ones on the countdown markers prior to the closed junction (these are either on the 300, or 200 yds markers, you’ll see under normal conditions one of these is twice the width of the others, when opened it will say "TO REJOIN M6, FOLLOW Δ " or similar,
(

Then along the diversion route this symbol will be at every junction.(there are various symbols in use.)

They are either like this, or with the symbol attached to the large route sign prior to a junction.

The problem at M6, J17 northbound, there is a low bridge along the diversion route, and you higher guys will not get under it, this would obviously cause even more havoc, that’s why the diversion was put in at J16.

At the scene of the RTC, the injured casualties are obviously dealt with first, probably needing extraction by the fire brigade, meanwhile once extra HATO patrols have got to the scene, the traffic that’s been trapped between the incident and the closed junction will start to be either turned around from the rear, or the central reserve barrier cut through to let traffic go onto the other c/way, both operations requiring at lease 2 patrols or more if the other c/way is going to be used, done by the HATO’s Barry, freeing up the limited police to deal with all the procedures they need to do at the incident.
When the initial assessment was made that it was a life changing or fatal incident, the motorway police would request attendance of the collision investigation team. Now they don’t keep these bobbies on coat-hooks at the cop shop, they’ll be doing normal police activates, and will need to be recalled back to the police station (possibly requiring someone to take over what-ever they were doing) to get their gear, then they need to get there through the traffic that is now horrendous. this normally takes 1 - 1½ hours (On nights, these officers may even have to come in from home, taking even longer)
Nothing apart from the injured parties is moved at the scene until they have finished their investigation. Once the police have finished their investigations, the vehicles need to be removed, in the case similar to this, by the police duty garage, any other vehicles that may have hit a person (or part of) will also be taken by the police. Then a specialised clean up firm is brought in to clean up any “bodily fluids etc” once all this is done the police will eave and the incident is handed back to the HA, who will reopen the c/way as soon as any debris, unsafe infrastructure etc is sorted out, or any lane closures for damaged road surface are fully set up etc…
Even opening the c/way is not as straight forward as just moving a few cones, the main c/ways are usually opened first before the slip roads, requiring HATO patrols from each closure to open it at the correct time, (the police have gone to do policing now Barry, not dealing with queues of impatient motorists)
Then HATO patrols must then run through the area where all the traffic has been queueing for some time, as we normally get a lot of overheated vehicles, sometimes abandoned ones as nosey drivers have walked miles up the c/way to try to get a look at what’s happened. (again saving on police doing it Barry!)
The usual time for dealing with straight forward fatal is 3½ hours or more, all depending on what’s involved & how it’s happened.

Condolences to all involved :cry:

But this stretch of the M6 Northbound is a serious accident spot and it is the straightest bit of the M6 to Manchester aswell.Some proper idiots in Wagons there aswell glad i don’t go to Middlewich(jct 18) anymore :smiley:

thamesvalley.police.uk/newse … ?id=145966

No mention if they arrested this driver. Think its a croc that they arrested the M6 driver,someone might have ‘witnessed’ him swerving’…nothing to do with the bloody tramlines in lane 1 then…some of them can be a nightmare on the older stretches. The big blue signs on the slip roads say ‘no pedestrians’. Highway code says if u break down,retreat to a safe place behind the barrier’. Sorry,but if your gonna wander around the m/way,yr (more than likely) gonna get hurt. Remember the 2 Swedeish birds on the same stretch? They went wandering around the m/way and they got hurt. If they wanted u to ‘play’ on the m/way, they’d install some bloody swings. I think this needs to be put down as a tragic accident. 2 people unfortunately did not get home, how is the driver gonna feel every time he passes a pedestrian crossing the road in his area…poor sod may never drive again

Just because the driver has been arrested it doesn’t mean he is guilty. Personally if I was in that situation I would want arresting because then you are questioned under caution and that it is a much for the driver’s protection as anything else.

Someone said how could the driver possibly be injured and have to go to hospital when he just hit a couple of pedestrians. Hard braking + seat belt could equal damaged or broken ribs and/or collar bone for instance.

Coffeeholic:
Just because the driver has been arrested it doesn’t mean he is guilty. Personally if I was in that situation I would want arresting because then you are questioned under caution and that it is a much for the driver’s protection as anything else.

Someone said how could the driver possibly be injured and have to go to hospital when he just hit a couple of pedestrians. Hard braking + seat belt could equal damaged or broken ribs and/or collar bone for instance.

shock & trauma could also figure highly in the driver requiring treatment