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bardon.flyer:
Good morningI passed my class 1 license Friday morning in a draw bar set up with a clean sheet, and for good measure had Saturday morning in an artic, which I`m glad I did as they are totally different to drive, whilst going forward felt no different, cornering and reversing ( whilst the principle may remain the same) had different handling affects.
I
m just glad to have passed my test, part of me curious as to why two different set ups obtain the same license.Many thanks
Firstly well done for passing but in all honesty a clean sheet means nothing as the examiner does not have to mark minor faults but good to have anyway.
I take it your drawbar trailer had fixed axles and it was not an A frame as these bad boys can put a good artic driver to shame when it come to going backwards.
The reason you get a c C+E license for passing in a drawbar is all about saving money as artic training can take longer and nowadays it’s all about you getting a license asap rather
than teaching you to drive correctly.Basically it’s crap because it lets people pass a test when they have not proven they can handle a different vehicle.It’s far too easy to gain such a license.
Anyway my advice as a retired driver of 40 odd years would be don’t follow the herd and drive like an idiot. Stick to the rules and regs and your life will be so much easier.
Good luck because you will need it.
I passed my test in a wagon and drag. My first experience of driving an artic was my first day on the job.
Whilst there are small differences, they are so minor I think just knowing what they are is sufficient.
Ziltoid:
Whilst there are small differences, they are so minor I think just knowing what they are is sufficient.
I don’t see much difference between passing in a normal artic or a drawbar outfit, whilst the artic may have more trailer cut in and need more exaggerated pushing to reverse, the drawbar has far less turning circle (no jack knifing one of these unless A frame) so mini roundabouts and delivery point turning circles can present issues, and when reversing between two lorries or around a wall you can lose sight completely of the back half of the trailer, due to you being sat many yards further away, if on an angled approach, in the much longer prime mover, so tight reverses you will be jumping in and out more often to see where the Rsend is.
Both designs have good and bad points, but neither is what i would call the better version to learn or pass a test on…arguably the trainer’s back won’t suffer as much over time with a drawbar due to the long wheelbase leading to a much smoother ride 
, this ride issue is something i do miss about no longer driving lorry and drags, as our roads deteriorate ever further to third world status.
jakethesnake:
bardon.flyer:
Firstly well done for passing but in all honesty a clean sheet means nothing as the examiner does not have to mark minor faults but good to have anyway.
I take it your drawbar trailer had fixed axles and it was not an A frame as these bad boys can put a good artic driver to shame when it come to going backwards.
The reason you get a c C+E license for passing in a drawbar is all about saving money as artic training can take longer and nowadays it’s all about you getting a license asap rather
than teaching you to drive correctly.Basically it’s crap because it lets people pass a test when they have not proven they can handle a different vehicle.It’s far too easy to gain such a license.
Anyway my advice as a retired driver of 40 odd years would be don’t follow the herd and drive like an idiot. Stick to the rules and regs and your life will be so much easier.
Good luck because you will need it.
What a negative individual 
Must be a laugh a minute in your company.
Guy has just passed his C+E deserves some praise 
Nice one mate, and well done for the clean sheet. it will only boost your cofidence.
I agree about the drawbar thing you mention, I have never had any desire to drive one, the only time I did was dropping one off for a mate in the 80s, …and yeh, 
they do crop up their own little problems that artics don’t (not meaning an A frame btw, they are one big different ball game…horribile ■■■■ things ugh! 
)
My advice to you now bud is look upon it as just passing a test, and that only now you will learn to ‘‘drive’’ in the true sense. 
Don’t be afraid to ask other exp drivers, never be ashamed to ask for help in getting in and out of tight places, ignore the teararse heart attack candidate d/heads that you will meet on your firm (trust me) and set your own sensible, safe and legal pace…and do not let yourself be pushed, the more you allow it the more they push you…then you become one of the heart attack gang yourself. better to arrive safe but late, than not arrive at all with your truck buried in a building or something.
Good luck with it all mate.
You’ll need it… 
(joking btw )
DF40:
jakethesnake:
bardon.flyer:
Firstly well done for passing but in all honesty a clean sheet means nothing as the examiner does not have to mark minor faults but good to have anyway.
I take it your drawbar trailer had fixed axles and it was not an A frame as these bad boys can put a good artic driver to shame when it come to going backwards.
The reason you get a c C+E license for passing in a drawbar is all about saving money as artic training can take longer and nowadays it’s all about you getting a license asap rather
than teaching you to drive correctly.Basically it’s crap because it lets people pass a test when they have not proven they can handle a different vehicle.It’s far too easy to gain such a license.
Anyway my advice as a retired driver of 40 odd years would be don’t follow the herd and drive like an idiot. Stick to the rules and regs and your life will be so much easier.
Good luck because you will need it.What a negative individual
Guy has just passed his C+E deserves some praise
Commonly known as urinating on someone’s french fries 
.
DF40:
jakethesnake:
bardon.flyer:
Firstly well done for passing but in all honesty a clean sheet means nothing as the examiner does not have to mark minor faults but good to have anyway.
I take it your drawbar trailer had fixed axles and it was not an A frame as these bad boys can put a good artic driver to shame when it come to going backwards.
The reason you get a c C+E license for passing in a drawbar is all about saving money as artic training can take longer and nowadays it’s all about you getting a license asap rather
than teaching you to drive correctly.Basically it’s crap because it lets people pass a test when they have not proven they can handle a different vehicle.It’s far too easy to gain such a license.
Anyway my advice as a retired driver of 40 odd years would be don’t follow the herd and drive like an idiot. Stick to the rules and regs and your life will be so much easier.
Good luck because you will need it.What a negative individual
Guy has just passed his C+E deserves some praise
Not negative at all, just the reality of the situation. If you notice I did say well done. Is that not praise in your book?
I mean if it was a real difficult test I may have given more praise but in reality it’s very easy especially with a wagon and trailer.
At least I not vulgar about it. 
I don’t see much difference between passing in a normal artic or a drawbar outfit
Well I can assure you there is a big difference depending on the drawbar outfit of course. The pass rate for passing on a wagon with fixed axle trailer is far far higher than passing on an artic.
Can we all chip in to buy Jake a happy ending? Never has one man needed some relief so badly
idrive:
Can we all chip in to buy Jake a happy ending? Never has one man needed some relief so badly
Relief? Really. Never been so happy mate, retired, not short of cash, more and more time spent out of Uk and get a great laugh on here.What more could one ask.
jakethesnake:
I don’t see much difference between passing in a normal artic or a drawbar outfitWell I can assure you there is a big difference depending on the drawbar outfit of course. The pass rate for passing on a wagon with fixed axle trailer is far far higher than passing on an artic.
Go on then, i’ll bite, what’s the big difference, they bend in the middle, are roughly the same length, what the artic loses in trailer length it gains in maneuverability, the drawbar’s turn ability is limited by the turning circle of the prime mover, let alone if you jack knife one to the degree a artic can take (to the point of hitting the cab against the side of the trailer) then serious damage to the prime mover’s towing equipment and indeed the trailer chassis itself is on the cards.
Whats the difference between a drawbar trailer’s axles and a semi trailer’s axles…and don’t try to confuse the issue with A-frame drawbars (and yes i’ve driven them) because no British lorry driving school with an ounce of sense would use one for normal C&E training for test.
I’ve used both wagon and drags for years as well as artics, different driving techniques required, but one isn’t any harder than the other.
but one isn’t any harder than the other.
Maybe not to yourself as an experienced driver but to a complete novice there is a great difference. The major problem for a novice is the reversing on an artic is far harder as their vision is far more restricted. As you know on a w&d the trailer is set back and therefore it is far easier for the driver to see how the trailer is reacting. Going forwards is not such a problem but again the cut in on an artic trailer takes far more getting used to than a w&d trailer which more or less follows the vehicle. These are probably the main reasons why the pass rate is far higher on a w&d test and why training schools tend to use them rather than an artic. Far easier, far cheaper but end result is not so good.
I certainly remember the first time I drove a w&d with a fixed axle trailer and personally I could not believe just how easy it was after driving artics for years. I have also driven A frames and as you say they are a completely different story.
I disagree.
Wag’n drag is different than an artic but on tight maneuvers i found you lose more of the trailer than with an artic.
ie reversing into a space between two walls or two lorries, with the lorry and trailer in a Y shape you as the driver of a drag are sitting some 5 yards away from being able to see down the gap which you are feeding the trailer into, with an artic and much closer due to the short wheelbase this isn’t an issue.
The other thing with wag’n drags is you not only have a rear overhang of the trailer swinging out on tight turns on the initial turn, you also have the rear of the prime mover doing the same.
But each to their own, where the wag’n drag wins hands down is on stability, assuming the prime mover is heavy and at least as long as the trailer, then a very stable outfit…not counting the modern car transporters here which are basically a tractor unit towing a large and very heavy and much longer drag, where the tail wagging the dog problem rears it’s ugly head many times.
As for training schools, it makes economic sense, that rigid can double up as the C&E training lorry just by hitching up to a suitable trailer, one motorised vehicle for both licences.
A drawbar is no different to towing a caravan. An A frame is fine until you need to reverse as I found a few weeks ago it took me 15mins to reverse the trailer through a massive roller shutter. Lucky for me the trailer was my delivery to its new owner so I could un hitch it and drive off in a rigid.
And I would consider it small differences as really the only issue I see is you can’t do U turns in a space an artic could.
Juddian:
I disagree.Wag’n drag is different than an artic but on tight maneuvers i found you lose more of the trailer than with an artic.
ie reversing into a space between two walls or two lorries, with the lorry and trailer in a Y shape you as the driver of a drag are sitting some 5 yards away from being able to see down the gap which you are feeding the trailer into, with an artic and much closer due to the short wheelbase this isn’t an issue.
The other thing with wag’n drags is you not only have a rear overhang of the trailer swinging out on tight turns on the initial turn, you also have the rear of the prime mover doing the same.
But each to their own, where the wag’n drag wins hands down is on stability, assuming the prime mover is heavy and at least as long as the trailer, then a very stable outfit…not counting the modern car transporters here which are basically a tractor unit towing a large and very heavy and much longer drag, where the tail wagging the dog problem rears it’s ugly head many times.
As for training schools, it makes economic sense, that rigid can double up as the C&E training lorry just by hitching up to a suitable trailer, one motorised vehicle for both licences.
Obviously driving in the real world is different to learning to drive whilst training which is what I thought we were talking about and yes they both have different characteristics but all in all w&d is far easier for a novice. Of course it makes economic sense for training schools but as the pass rate is far higher (for the reasons I have suggested) I have to disagree with you that there is little difference. Test statistics prove otherwise.
However on another note even although we have disagree on this subject it is a refreshing change to be able to discuss something on adult terms rather than some of the childish nonsence we see regularly just because someone does not agree with an opinion.
By the way did any of you who think there is little difference notice that the OP (a novice) thought they were totally different? I rest my case.
All goes quiet.
I passed my test in an artic and then spent the next 22 years driving them. Last year I was given a wagon n drag to use. It was tricky to start with but I’ve got the hang of it now. The basic principles are the same but there are significant differences. Basically it’s all about learning which parts of each outfit behave differently and concentrate on them. My very experienced on w&d colleague said once I’d got used to it I wouldn’t want to go back to artics. I’m still not sure…I think I’d prefer an artic to be honest.
As for allowing tests to be taken in either type of vehicle, I guess it was when they changed the rules so you had to take a test on class 2 then class 1. This way the driving schools could have just one vehicle (wagon & drag) which could be used to train for both tests instead of having to have a rigid and an artic.
Anyway, well done and good luck OP, take your time and don’t be afraid to ask for help.