Tommy Robinson, saint or sinner?

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
141

kcrussell25:

Rjan:

kcrussell25:
I watched one of his videos and he said (roughly as I can’t remember properly) 90% of grooming is done by Muslim men who make 4% of the population!

He might have said that, but it’s still preposterous. 90% of serious criminals in Britain are probably white, but it doesn’t mean anything like 100% of white people are serious criminals, or that serious crime is a culture amongst whites!

independent.co.uk/news/uk/h … 01941.html

There are many other links but this was the top. It needs addressing, deal with that 4% and you could stop 84% of grooming. Just because the figures make uncomfortable reading doesn’t mean they should be ignored.

I have no idea about you figures for the white population but given Tommy Robinson specifically looks at this one type of offense I don’t see the comparison. Should he target young black males as they are the most likely for knife crime in London?

But young black males are not particularly likely to be involved in knife crime. I’m not saying there is no problem at all with it, and knife-carrying is actually a significant problem, but what I’m saying is that just because there’s a few more stabbings in one area than another (and thus “more likely”), in areas containing hundreds of thousands or millions of people you can’t expect to focus full force on the “most likely area” and turn every single person’s underpants inside out looking for knives just because there’s a correlation of skin colour or whatever. It’s not fair or reasonable to law-abiding people, who expect to go about their business and lives with proper respect and dignity.

As for grooming, it may well be the case that “grooming gangs” are common amongst Asians, but there is a distinct possibility that non-Asian grooming gangs are simply going undetected (in the same way that, for example, historical white grooming gangs involving MPs and police officers, went undetected and undisclosed until recently), and moreover it doesn’t talk about non-gang grooming.

Anyway, we all agree criminals need to be dealt with. The point is not to get into the habit of thinking that it characterises the entire Muslim community.

I think Tacograph said it best. Whether you like him or not the fact that he can be locked up for 13 months without what appears a proper trial and opportunity of a defense and then the media told not to cover it is the scariest outcome of this whole matter

Well it remains to be seen whether the story will be covered at some point, and what the reason for the silence was. The media can’t seriously expect to stay silent about it forever, because we all already know about it! I’d be joining the street marches myself if the story was simply never heard of again.

142

Rjan:
The reality is, you just let people do what they do, and be welcoming to those kids whose parents are more liberal, or those kids who simply take their parents’ admonitions with a pinch of salt. Unless the person is exercising power or a discriminatory practice is in the ascendancy - neither of which is true of marginal cultures originally from foreign societies - there is a case for simply turning the other cheek.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should turn the other cheek in welcoming the savage Saudi or Iranian type Islamic culture being foisted onto the indigenous population and onto our streets.As opposed to kicking it out of the country and back to the backward savage Asian zb holes where it belongs.

You’re avin a bleedin larf in deliberately trying to compare apples with oranges and turning a serious and dangerous clash of cultures into a trivial class one.

143

Rjan:

albion:
However, if you are unable to read the link, very briefly it’s about Glodwick in Oldham, not far from me. As one Muslim shop owner says, “if a white person was to walk down the street, I swear 9 out of 10 people would crane their neck to look”. At the women’s centre, they want to learn English but they admit they tell their children not to make friends with the white kids because they are afraid of their own culture being diluted and of western liberal influence.

Unfortunately I couldn’t read the link, but how is this different from white parents who tell their kids not to associate with those in school they see as troublemakers, undesirables, or of lower class? The reality is, you just let people do what they do, and be welcoming to those kids whose parents are more liberal, or those kids who simply take their parents’ admonitions with a pinch of salt. Unless the person is exercising power or a discriminatory practice is in the ascendancy - neither of which is true of marginal cultures originally from foreign societies - there is a case for simply turning the other cheek.

As for most of the ethnic population is British, the article quotes an interesting exchange between the shopowner Imran and his cousin Eyaz.

Imran: tell him where you’ve been in the world.

Eyaz: Pakistan. That’s our country, isn’t it?

Imran: See what I mean? Typical. That’s our country. No, it isn’t. You were born here.

Eyaz: Our parents come from there.

Imran: Our parents do. But you don’t. Why don’t you move there if it’s your country.

But that shows you that even within one family, conversations happen and even by the second generation the stronger view is that your country is Britain. And I’m guessing a key difference in attitude may well be the fact that Imran is a shop-owner, which is a position of status and economic security, and may have a young family of his own by now, and his cousin Eyaz may be in a totally different position, and that’s likely to affect attitudes and reflections.

If your experience is of Glodwick type places then you won’t feel that you are at home.

I’ve worked in Salford for 22 years and as an outsider, it’s interesting to look at. A mere ten years ago, you literally didn’t see a black person - Trafford down the road was black, Salford was white. Now somedays I feel like I’m I’m in the foyer at the United Nations. I’ve no idea if it’s good or bad, but the speed of change has been quite breathtaking and you couldn’t blame people that have spent 60 years living here, feeling that their life and culture had been eroded.

It depends what makes you feel at home I suppose.

Maybe I’m lucky - where I live it’s a working class town, I know my neighbours, spoke to them yesterday whilst he hoovered his car and I cut the hedge, trotted across to see another neighbour whose wife has dementia - knowing how difficult it is, I call in now and again and he gets to have a chat that doesn’t rely on saying the same thing 25 times. Spoke to some dog walkers that I see regularly. My social customs haven’t changed much, maybe it’s a Northern thing and we are still a fairly white town.

Indeed I don’t want to overstate the case, but I definitely feel like that’s something that’s changed over time, and the places where that sort of closeness still exists seem to have a number of families that have 20 or 30 years or more in the same houses or the same immediate area. And in one of the local streets I’m thinking about, it’s actually an Asian fella and his family (in an otherwise completely white street) who is one of the mainstays.

So my feeling is that to go back to where I started, it depends a lot on the people you meet and their willingness to engage - and it has to be their willingness to engage because they are in England and there is an English way of doing things. If I head to live in Iran, then I have to start doing things the Iranian way.

Indeed, but I can’t say I’ve got any experience of people not doing things “the English way”, nor of people being “unwilling to engage”. And I haven’t lived a sheltered life - I’ve encountered migrants and ethnic minorities from probably all backgrounds in both work and social contexts.

I have met, plenty in my previous job, that weren’t willing to engage.

As for the first paragraph, personally, should I have had children, I can’t imagine telling them not to talk to the black kids, that’s straight racism. Doesn’t matter if discriminatory practice is in the ascendency or not. It’s racism.

Listening to R4 a couple of years ago, and a chap that had come from Afghanistan as a 6-7 year old with his parents in the 70s, was talking about the new wave of refugees into Germany and the experiences of his parents. His parents had decided from the outset to fit in, wearing western clothes and learning the language to the point at which after three years, his mother was assumed to have grown up in Germany. I can’t imagine that she told her son not to mix with the white kids.

144

albion:
As for the first paragraph, personally, should I have had children, I can’t imagine telling them not to talk to the black kids, that’s straight racism. Doesn’t matter if discriminatory practice is in the ascendency or not. It’s racism.

In the real world it’s much more likely as in my case to be left up to us to reach our own conclusions in which I went from being one of Rjan’s lot to being a believer in the idea of segregation.That being the definition of Multiculturalism and human nature meaning that we generally keep to our own which is why God put us all on different parts of the planet within our own borders.With attempts to go against that in the form of socially engineered forced integration usually all ending up in the same inter ethnic strife sooner or later.

While by your logic,white flight,let alone the hypcrisy of Lib Dem voters shouting about integration and then making sure that they only choose mainly ‘white’ schools for their own wherever possible,would all be classed as racism and they’d all end up in the nick with Tommy for nothing more than following the rules that god gave us all to live by. :unamused:

145

Carryfast:
which is why God… blah blah blah

:unamused: :unamused:

146

TiredAndEmotional:

UKtramp:
Basically to sum up my views for those who are confused.
Q: Do I believe TR to be a sinner or saint. A: Sinner
Q: Do I think TR should have been jailed. A: No
Q: Do I agree with what TR views are. A: Some yes, others NO
Q: Do I agree that these crimes be covered up. A: Most certainly NOT.
Q: Do I believe all Muslims are rapists A: No And who is saying they are?
Q: Do I believe in integration A: Yes Not part of this conversation,is it?
Q: Do I believe there has been a political motive behind TR arrest A: most certainly And yet you support censorship!
Q: Do I believe in free speech A: mostly, but depends And who decides who and what gets censored?
Q: Am I a communist or a lefty A: NO
Q: Do I find carryfast boring A: YES
Q: Do I find carryfast Interesting A: At times
About rounds it up, that is all.

Please concentrate on the real story rather than wandering off into your own beliefs. A man has been sent to prison for 13 months in a country that has sacrificed millions of our young men in the name of democracy with no explanation and a news blackout. Could it be because he embarrasses those responsible for permitting this scandal to go unchallenged for decades and they’re worried that eventually they might and it is only might unfortunately, stand in the dock to answer for their crimes?

Agreed

147

Carryfast:

albion:
As for the first paragraph, personally, should I have had children, I can’t imagine telling them not to talk to the black kids, that’s straight racism. Doesn’t matter if discriminatory practice is in the ascendency or not. It’s racism.

In the real world it’s much more likely as in my case to be left up to us to reach our own conclusions in which I went from being one of Rjan’s lot to being a believer in the idea of segregation.That being the definition of Multiculturalism and human nature meaning that we generally keep to our own which is why God put us all on different parts of the planet within our own borders.With attempts to go against that in the form of socially engineered forced integration usually all ending up in the same inter ethnic strife sooner or later.

While by your logic,white flight,let alone the hypcrisy of Lib Dem voters shouting about integration and then making sure that they only choose mainly ‘white’ schools for their own wherever possible,would all be classed as racism and they’d all end up in the nick with Tommy for nothing more than following the rules that god gave us all to live by. :unamused:

Crikey carryfast, you can’t half read something completely wrong. Between you and Rjan, you read what someone writes and then re-write in your own heads, no wonder you can carry on wittering for pages between the two of you.

Actually, I can’t be bothered…note to self, stick to your own rule and don’t reply to either of you, it’s a pointless exercise. :neutral_face:

148

albion:

Carryfast:

albion:
As for the first paragraph, personally, should I have had children, I can’t imagine telling them not to talk to the black kids, that’s straight racism. Doesn’t matter if discriminatory practice is in the ascendency or not. It’s racism.

While by your logic,white flight

Crikey carryfast, you can’t half read something completely wrong.

So they say we’d like you not to get too involved with ( the Islamic or Afro cultures for understandable reasons ) then that’s supposedly racism ?.But they say we don’t like the area because it’s going too Asian or too Afro etc to feel comfortable staying here any longer so we’ve decided to move,then it’s not ?.

Sorry if it’s an inconvenient argument but it gets to the nuts and bolts of the inconsistency in the anti integrationist and segregationist automatically means ‘racist’ script.

IE taken to its logical conclusion you’re going to be calling a massive part of the population ‘racists’ in both cases when they are nothing of the sort.It’s just the freedom to maintain living within their own respective culture on all sides.Ironically inter ethnic relations arguably being more relaxed in forming slowly at a natural pace under that regime,than the artificial ham fisted desperate forced integration of the type which set the Balkans alight and which the PC lot are now trying to repeat here and expecting a different outcome.

149

I don’t know if this has been posted already but it seems the reporting restriction on Tommy Robinsons arrest and sentence has now been lifted.

independent.co.uk/news/uk/c … 74121.html

150

tachograph:
I don’t know if this has been posted already but it seems the reporting restriction on Tommy Robinsons arrest and sentence has now been lifted.

independent.co.uk/news/uk/c … 74121.html

It all makes a bit more sense now doesn’t it? Or will the far right whingers still insist this is a state cover up in response to international pressure and a face saver. You could also look upon this from another angle of a publicity stunt by this lovely character. The peoples hero, I don’t think so. The far right whingers will see this as somehow a victory whereas the more intellectual will see right through this escapade.

151

I’m on my phone so can’t link, but for an explanation of the law in this case, type in The secret barrister in Google and it should take you to the blog.

It’s always very informative.

152

UKtramp:

tachograph:
I don’t know if this has been posted already but it seems the reporting restriction on Tommy Robinsons arrest and sentence has now been lifted.

independent.co.uk/news/uk/c … 74121.html

It all makes a bit more sense now doesn’t it? Or will the far right whingers still insist this is a state cover up in response to international pressure and a face saver. You could also look upon this from another angle of a publicity stunt by this lovely character. The peoples hero, I don’t think so. The far right whingers will see this as somehow a victory whereas the more intellectual will see right through this escapade.

You don’t have to be a far right extremist to believe that there shouldn’t have been a news blackout in the first place.

I don’t really care what the right wing extremists say about it, it’s of no interest to me.

Sent from my mobile.

153

tachograph:
You don’t have to be a far right extremist to believe that there shouldn’t have been a news blackout in the first place.

I don’t really care what the right wing extremists say about it, it’s of no interest to me.

Sent from my mobile.

There was very good reason for the news blackout, it was a live case that was ongoing and was put in place to ensure the jury was not influenced in any way by this or any other madman.

154

UKtramp:

tachograph:
You don’t have to be a far right extremist to believe that there shouldn’t have been a news blackout in the first place.

I don’t really care what the right wing extremists say about it, it’s of no interest to me.

Sent from my mobile.

There was very good reason for the news blackout, it was a live case that was ongoing and was put in place to ensure the jury was not influenced in any way by this or any other madman.

The jury had convinced them. This was a sentencing hearing so no jury to “influence”

155

kcrussell25:

UKtramp:

tachograph:
You don’t have to be a far right extremist to believe that there shouldn’t have been a news blackout in the first place.

I don’t really care what the right wing extremists say about it, it’s of no interest to me.

Sent from my mobile.

There was very good reason for the news blackout, it was a live case that was ongoing and was put in place to ensure the jury was not influenced in any way by this or any other madman.

The jury had convinced them. This was a sentencing hearing so no jury to “influence”

They had not convicted them all as they couldn’t fit them all in one court room at the same time, the judge had ordered a media blackout for this reason and TR new of this and had been warned that if he went ahead with this farce that he would be arrested, which he ignored and was promptly arrested. There is more to this story than what has been potrayed by his “followers”

156

UKtramp:
The far right whingers will see this as somehow a victory whereas the more intellectual will see right through this escapade.

Only far right from the point of view of anti nation state Globalists/Communists.Who it’s clear are just apologists and appeasers of Saudi backed Wahabbist/Salafist Islamist savages if not want to use them as a mercenary army to help them to take over the country.Probably as plan B because the commies have only just worked out that we’re more than ‘intellectual’ enough to no longer swallow the far ‘left’ line that only Communism/Socialism has the self appointed right to represent the working class together with having sussed out the Globalists plans for us.

On that note if,as you’re suggesting,Robinson did have the bottle to set himself up,as part of a plan to show the establishment up for what it really is and it’s then made the catastrophic blunder of taking the bait as seems possible,I’d say that’s not only bleedin heroic and brave but also actually more intellectual than all the brains that the Commy/Globalist savage Saudi appeasing establishment alliance,who are obviously your heroes,have put together.

157

Have a quick read of this, a really good insight and unbiased account of the proceedings as well as why he was arrested. thesecretbarrister.com/

158

UKtramp:

tachograph:
You don’t have to be a far right extremist to believe that there shouldn’t have been a news blackout in the first place.

I don’t really care what the right wing extremists say about it, it’s of no interest to me.

Sent from my mobile.

There was very good reason for the news blackout, it was a live case that was ongoing and was put in place to ensure the jury was not influenced in any way by this or any other madman.

Stop chatting ■■■■ ffs .

159

UKtramp:
Have a quick read of this, a really good insight and unbiased account of the proceedings as well as why he was arrested. thesecretbarrister.com/

That’s just what was needed, a calm and completely neutral explanation of events! I’m afraid the authorities and the media have severely damaged the reputation of the law in this country with events that have occurred many years prior to this case. Eventually, with repeated scandals, a critical mass can be reached that will no longer meekly accept the authorities or the media version of events. Was Tommy “bang to rights”? Possibly, probably. However, it does not diminish the fact that our Lords and masters continue to break laws themselves whilst using all means at their disposal to cover up their misdemeanors. They all go to the same schools and universities, not so much the guards these days, the status quo is maintained and an occasional sacrifice is welcomed. The racist, fascist animals are being convicted after many years on the loose. Let’s now seek convictions for the animals who protected them. Contempt of court? Why wouldn’t any decent person hold the court in contempt?

160

UKtramp:
Have a quick read of this, a really good insight and unbiased account of the proceedings as well as why he was arrested. thesecretbarrister.com/

Got this far…
“It can now be reported that Tommy Robinson, the former leader of the English Defence League, convicted fraudster, sometime-football hooligan and self-reinvented free speech advocate…”
Then stopped reading,clearly this guy doesn’t like him so his article will be biased to make him look bad.

Quick google shows how completely ridiculous the sentencing system is in this country…
suffolk.police.uk/news/late … nt-assault
Is what Tommy did worse than ■■■■■■■■ assaulting a 13 year old girl?..the courts seem to think so given his immediate custodial sentence!