UKtramp:
People who have or who express extremist views should indeed be either silenced or imprisoned. Why would you want it any other way, Tommy Robinson is extremist in his views and if left to his own devices would probably cross the line of acting out his views with violence. The sooner people learn to integrate with each other the better. Those who don’t integrate should be left to their own devices. Providing they do not force their opinions of others there is nothing wrong with different cultures. Live and let live gives you a much more peaceful existence.
You haven’t got clue have you ? do you just post things without any background knowledge because you think you are clever?
I have been having this arguement with friends on FB who, due to Tommy past cannot and will not see any good in him.
My points being the following…
I am no fan of his myself, and i appreciate he has a chequered past however, he is the only person speaking out in the media about these muslim grooming gangs. Surely someone speaking out about a crime is better than no one speaking out about a crime?
I got shouted down that he shouldn’t have been there as there is a reporting restriction on this case. Why are there reporting restrictions on it? Don’t tell me its because the offenders won’t get a fair trial, the trial has already been and gone, we are now on to sentencing.
Where was he when Rolf harris/Jimmy Savile et al were being prosecuted? He was no where and for good reason. The main stream media were all over those cases like a tramp on chips, something they aren’t doing with this case.
My own personal opinion is that there are too many people in this country willing to play the race card and too many in authority to scared to tell them where to get off in case they get tarred with the same race card brush. A case in point would be the Met police and their stop and search policy. Crime statistics showed that the majority of crime in their catchment area was commited by black male youths, so thats who their majority of stop and search were focused on. Before you know it they are branded institutionally racist, so it stopped…crime by that same demographic has now risen again and they talk about bringing back stop and search. They’ve only talked about it and the race card is already being banded about!
The problem we have in thos country whether you like it, loathe it or disagree with me is this, too many people willing to play the race card, too many people taking offence at what others say, write or have an opinion on and a set of authorities that rather than look after the majority will look after the minority. Look at how the government are willing to prosecute ex soldiers over alleged crimes committed in northern ireland yet the self same government will give pardons to convicted terrorists!! The entire country is on its head, the powers would rather pander to the extremists than listen to the moderates. Its a crying shame there aren’t more people with tommy Morrisons bottle to speak out and speak up about whats going wrong in this country, if there were maybe the government might start to listen…but i very much doubt it.
UKtramp:
People who have or who express extremist views should indeed be either silenced or imprisoned. Why would you want it any other way.
Although I’m sure you wrote it for no more reason than to get a reaction I’m going to respond.
Once you’ve silenced Tommy Robinson, who is next?
Will those in control keep narrowing what is considered an acceptable opinion, until we find its us they want to silence?
And those with the polar opposite views to Tommy need to be careful in what they wish for, as laws used to control the likes of him could also be used on them if the political landscape changes.
UKtramp:
People who have or who express extremist views should indeed be either silenced or imprisoned. Why would you want it any other way.
Although I’m sure you wrote it for no more reason than to get a reaction.
I read it as a typically expected statement of anyone with Communist sympathies.IE infiltrate and take over the government process and then take out the opposition by sending it to the Gulag for ‘educational reform’ if it shows any resistance to the ideoligical unification,assimilation,and ethnic integrationist agenda.On that note I’d suggest that even Juddian is way under estimating the level of the threat facing the country if these Commies get a hold over it.
Indeed Muckles, that is the very nub of the problem.
Either we have freedom of speech and expression or we don’t, at the moment one side are enjoying things because their heroes are calling the shots, what they forget is that things change and at some point they might find themselves in TR’s shoes.
It’s just the same at Universities, where genuine original feminists such as Germaine Greer have found themselves no platformed because her views are now unpalatable , what these snowflakes forget is that another generation will be along in due course, and the present mob (always ready with the fascist finger point) will find their views to be no longer acceptable.
“What are we if we don’t stand up for our dignity and our culture - animals?”
So said a Syrian man that is returning to Syria after finding Germany too liberal for his liking. Programme tonight, Our World: Escaping Europe on BBC News channel, examining why people are heading back to Syria and the trade in European documents for those trying to get in.
But it struck me that anyone of us can ask that question, what are we if we don’t stand up for our values. We are all different, go to Germany and it feels different to France, to Italy. I’m no great fan of watching whatever my culture is, of fragmenting . I like the differences in us all, I want the Greeks to be idle, the Germans to be efficient etc because that marks us out as different people, with different history.
If I moved to Syria (God knows why I would), or Spain, then I need to abandon my culture in public, I need to fit in. That works in reverse. Whilst there is racism in the UK, I belive that what really makes people angry is when subsets of people decide that they want to set themselves apart and wilfully ignore their host country. When was the last time the Chinese community made demands, or the Hindus. It’s always the radical Muslims that cause trouble and make natives feel uneasy.
UKtramp:
People who have or who express extremist views should indeed be either silenced or imprisoned. Why would you want it any other way, Tommy Robinson is extremist in his views and if left to his own devices would probably cross the line of acting out his views with violence. The sooner people learn to integrate with each other the better. Those who don’t integrate should be left to their own devices. Providing they do not force their opinions of others there is nothing wrong with different cultures. Live and let live gives you a much more peaceful existence.
You haven’t got clue have you ? do you just post things without any background knowledge because you think you are clever?
Regards
Dave Penn;
Sorry to have a different view to you. My life is obviously very different to yours. I am entitled to
My opinion and will not insult you for yours.
UKtramp, well I don’t apologise for having a different opinion to you, Tommy R isn’t an extremist for reporting on grooming gangs that have already been convicted for their abhorrent crimes against young British and Sikh girls who were aged from11yrs upwards, this is called ■■■■ Jihad and there isn’t a town or city in this Country that isn’t affected by this phenomenon and the causal link in all these ■■■■ gangs is the religion of peace, read their handbook and you might find out the truth and might understand just what hell our quisling parliamentarians have invited into this Country.
UKtramp:
People who have or who express extremist views should indeed be either silenced or imprisoned. Why would you want it any other way, Tommy Robinson is extremist in his views and if left to his own devices would probably cross the line of acting out his views with violence. The sooner people learn to integrate with each other the better. Those who don’t integrate should be left to their own devices. Providing they do not force their opinions of others there is nothing wrong with different cultures. Live and let live gives you a much more peaceful existence.
You haven’t got clue have you ? do you just post things without any background knowledge because you think you are clever?
Regards
Dave Penn;
Sorry to have a different view to you. My life is obviously very different to yours. I am entitled to
My opinion and will not insult you for yours.
Oh wait not only are you happy to insult anyone who sympathises with Robinson you’ll also send then to the Gulag.While wanting carte blanche for yourself to impose your stinking Communist views.Trust me I’ve heard it all before from both sides,when Yugoslavia was in exactly this situation during the 1980’s,as it had been before from when Tito started his idiotic ‘Brotherhood and Unity’ social experiment.Which our government is now following virtually to the letter with your views being just like those of any other Communist that I’ve heard both here and there.
Even though there is a gagging order about Tommys arrest the paedos names and offences are in the public domain, check this out and if it doesn’t disgust you then I don’t want to be yer friend. examiner.co.uk/news/west-yo … a-13878881
davepenn54:
UKtramp, well I don’t apologise for having a different opinion to you, Tommy R isn’t an extremist for reporting on grooming gangs that have already been convicted for their abhorrent crimes against young British and Sikh girls who were aged from11yrs upwards, this is called ■■■■ Jihad and there isn’t a town or city in this Country that isn’t affected by this phenomenon and the causal link in all these ■■■■ gangs is the religion of peace, read their handbook and you might find out the truth and might understand just what hell our quisling parliamentarians have invited into this Country.
Regards
Dave Penn;
You are speaking of a very small minority group of Muslims, not your average Muslim. Grooming, trafficking etc isn’t just exclusive to Muslims, or do you believe that all paedophiles and child molesters are Muslim only? I agree this is despicable from any background but putting Tommy Robinson on a pedestal for his views on these minority group crimes being committed, Plenty of other ethnic groups (inc English) do the same thing or do you just hang the Muslims for it? They all should be made public knowledge for this, you cannot just pick and choose.
muckles:
Although I’m sure you wrote it for no more reason than to get a reaction I’m going to respond.
Once you’ve silenced Tommy Robinson, who is next?
Will those in control keep narrowing what is considered an acceptable opinion, until we find its us they want to silence?
And those with the polar opposite views to Tommy need to be careful in what they wish for, as laws used to control the likes of him could also be used on them if the political landscape changes.
There are better people than Tommy Robinson to fight the corner of these victims. He is purely spewing out his words of child ■■■■ etc to get a reaction and to whip up a hate campaign against anyone who isn’t in his mould. Not me trying for a reaction.
I for one wish they would stop using that nice quaint term ‘grooming’, which reminds one of horses and posh barbers, and instead call it for what it is, child ■■■■ abuse and exploitation on an industrial scale, which only scum would ever participate in and only other scum would turn a blind eye to or try to make lame excuses for.
Those involved have no place in a civilised society.
Juddian:
I for one wish they would stop using that nice quaint term ‘grooming’, which reminds one of horses and posh barbers, and instead call it for what it is, child ■■■■ abuse and exploitation on an industrial scale, which only scum would ever participate in and only other scum would turn a blind eye to or try to make lame excuses for.
Those involved have no place in a civilised society.
Nobody could disagree with you on all of those points, my point is that there is far better people than Tommy Robinson to get them in the headlines rather than to make the problem into a hate campaign and raise suspicion. It doesn’t do the victims any good what so ever. it is like having Putin speaking on your behalf.
muckles:
Although I’m sure you wrote it for no more reason than to get a reaction I’m going to respond.
Once you’ve silenced Tommy Robinson, who is next?
Will those in control keep narrowing what is considered an acceptable opinion, until we find its us they want to silence?
And those with the polar opposite views to Tommy need to be careful in what they wish for, as laws used to control the likes of him could also be used on them if the political landscape changes.
There are better people than Tommy Robinson to fight the corner of these victims. He is purely spewing out his words of child ■■■■ etc to get a reaction and to whip up a hate campaign against anyone who isn’t in his mould. Not me trying for a reaction.
I’m sure there are far better people to make a stand than Tommy Robinson, but that’s not the point, the point is if they can silence Tommy Robinson, then they can move onto the less radical people who are also vocal in their criticism of those with the power and once they’ve dealt with them, then they can move onto us here when we criticise the government.
Also silencing extreme views doesn’t stop them, it just move them underground, which is what seems to have happened for the last few decades and now the bubbling could run of descent seems to be bubbling over. It seems to me better to allow those views to be aired and challenged, but those who have suppressed them for so long, seem to have lost the ablility to debate in a grown up manner.
UKtramp:
my point is that there is far better people than Tommy Robinson rather than to make the problem into a hate campaign and raise suspicion.
Who exactly are you referring to as being ‘better’.May,Corbyn,Blair,Kahn etc etc ?.
Or Gerard Batten ?.If not why not ?.
Also define ‘hate campaign’.
Would you regard an end to Islamic enclaves and resulting disproportionate concentrated levels of association and influence created by those enclaves.By way of redistribution ( scattering ) of the Islamic population throughout the country including Scotland and the Scottish Isles and Northern Ireland and regarding Saudi as an enemy not a friend and Saudi backed Wahabbism as an illegal hate cult along with the removal of the right to practice Saudi backed Islam here together with demolition of its associated mosques.As being a ‘hate campaign’ ?.
muckles:
I’m sure there are far better people to make a stand than Tommy Robinson, but that’s not the point, the point is if they can silence Tommy Robinson, then they can move onto the less radical people who are also vocal in their criticism of those with the power and once they’ve dealt with them, then they can move onto us here when we criticise the government.
Also silencing extreme views doesn’t stop them, it just move them underground, which is what seems to have happened for the last few decades and now the bubbling could run of descent seems to be bubbling over. It seems to me better to allow those views to be aired and challenged, but those who have suppressed them for so long, seem to have lost the ablility to debate in a grown up manner.
I totally get your point, agree to some extent but in his case he is a difficult example to try and argue a case for him being a saint. He isn’t standing by or making any issue over anyone else being involved in these disgusting activities other than highlighting an immigrant problem. I also acknowledge there is an immigrant problem in this case but he is only out for his own agenda, not for the victims. Similar to an ambulance chasing solicitor trying to get you compensation for stubbing your toe. I am simply saying my opinion to the OP question, Tommy Robinson, Saint or Sinner. Definitely Sinner using this case for his own cause. Why not speak out in general about all who are guilty of this horrible crime?
muckles:
Also silencing extreme views doesn’t stop them, it just move them underground, which is what seems to have happened for the last few decades and now the bubbling could run of descent seems to be bubbling over. It seems to me better to allow those views to be aired and challenged, but those who have suppressed them for so long, seem to have lost the ablility to debate in a grown up manner.
Moving his views underground wouldn’t have been a bad thing, because at least it would have meant the jury in the case underway was less likely to see his reporting.
It’s not unreasonable in an ongoing case that public reporting has to be fair and factual and reflect only the evidence submitted inside the courtroom. Any person is free to observe the proceedings themselves, and also to report what they like about the trial afterwards, so it’s not a case of public discussion being silenced or public supervision being stifled. We’ve had these traditions of justice for centuries.
The EDL and similar are not there to promote justice or tell truth to power or to the public, but to harangue and lead witch-hunts against the Muslim community generally.
And I also note that an EDL member was recently jailed for ■■■■■■■■■■ offences (against a white girl) - I didn’t see any report from the EDL about that, so so much for fighting for transparency.
albion:
“What are we if we don’t stand up for our dignity and our culture - animals?”
So said a Syrian man that is returning to Syria after finding Germany too liberal for his liking. Programme tonight, Our World: Escaping Europe on BBC News channel, examining why people are heading back to Syria and the trade in European documents for those trying to get in.
But it struck me that anyone of us can ask that question, what are we if we don’t stand up for our values. We are all different, go to Germany and it feels different to France, to Italy. I’m no great fan of watching whatever my culture is, of fragmenting . I like the differences in us all, I want the Greeks to be idle, the Germans to be efficient etc because that marks us out as different people, with different history.
If I moved to Syria (God knows why I would), or Spain, then I need to abandon my culture in public, I need to fit in. That works in reverse. Whilst there is racism in the UK, I belive that what really makes people angry is when subsets of people decide that they want to set themselves apart and wilfully ignore their host country. When was the last time the Chinese community made demands, or the Hindus. It’s always the radical Muslims that cause trouble and make natives feel uneasy.
But that man, already a middle-aged man with a family, also voted with his feet - although he did sound both like an ingrate and naive about Western society in the circumstances. It didn’t actually state the precise nature of his objection iirc, but for someone highly conservative it could have been as simple as expecting his children to go to school or (assuming his children were girls) mingle with boys.
If you were fleeing war and found refuge in a rural Indian village, you’d certainly throw down the gauntlet if you were suddenly expected to marry your 11 year old off to “fit in” with local custom - even if you were happy to live and let live with your hosts, there are some things that are just too morally sensitive to be expected to participate in yourself. As a responsible father with a settled moral fabric, you just wouldn’t have it.
What I found more surprising was the other case, about a young fella with a skilled background, who actually had hopes and wanted to integrate but wasn’t able to, and basically said the Germans are taking care of our bodies but not our minds. That’s the real sad story.
, what these snowflakes forget is that another generation will be along in due course, and the present mob (always ready with the fascist finger point) will find their views to be no longer acceptable.