We have been doing some research on the benefits of discussing key decisions made during a test with the examiner at the time.
I have been talking with our examiners about serious faults made and how they feel the candidate could have prevented them. I have also discussed those same faults with the driver about why the faults happen and how to prevent them next time.
A common theme is that at key moments the driver is unsure what to do. For example Pulling out at roundabouts is by far the most common serious fault made but why. Many candidates say they feel the examiner might be getting impatient and are worried about making progress. In this situation we now tell our students to tell the examiner what he is thinking and why he is making a certain decision. Usually the tester will give a reassuring reply which helps the driver feel better about the situation.
I am not suggesting giving a 1 hour commentary but at moments when a tricky choice has to be made I suggest telling the man why you made that choice. Key moments can include overtaking cycles, horses, dustcarts. Stop or go at amber lights. 50/50 decisions at roundabouts etc.
Don’t be scared of talking through the key moments. It helps the examiner understand how you are thinking. They are not mind readers.
It’s one step down from Police Drivers exams where every move has to be commentated.
Some people may feel uncomfortable putting their thoughts into words which may add more stress to the situation. But I can see what you are saying and the possible benefits of it
This now gets into the realms of advanced driving commentary which is ok if the candidate has spent a couple of months practicing it
On the IAM advanced test the candidate is asked to do some at some point but is not obliged to do so
The examiner on an AD test usually asks them if they would like to commentate starting on a rural road, through a village, and then on the rural road again
After about 10/15 mins the examiner will say thank you and ask the candidate if they would like to keep up the commentary
This is a practiced art for most so encouraging a candidate to do it on a LGV test without at least a few weeks practice is likely to be fraught with issues
In this post I am not talking about a fluent commentary but a commentary which mentions the main points of interest
Mumbling to ones self to keep up the concentration often helps on a LGV test and if the examiner has good hearing then they may pick up on certain things which give an insight into what the candidate is thinking but I would not encourage much more than that without a lot of practice
This is written from experience of commentary driving over the past 14 years
When I took my c+e the last examiner I had was quite chatty , to be fair to him I think he was trying to put me at ease as at one point towards the end he actually said to me “you can breath you know !”, at one particular point I didn’t answer straight away as was at a junc turning right , after I had completed this and was travelling straight and up to speed I turned to him and said sorry wasn’t ignoring you just needed to concentrate there , he laughed and said no problem , and at one turn where you cant really see cars coming from the left I asked him to check for me as could not see very well and said I did not want to creep out and cause someone to stop suddenly , he said no problem and helped me out the junc
I don’t think you need a running commentary as in advanced driving tests but when in a tricky situation a quick comment about what you are doing and why goes a long way to telling the examiner that you are being careful and looking to stop yourself causing an accident it shows professionalism and that is what the examiners are looking for, someone who can, when he has passed them not be a hazard to other road users !!
If I had pulled out from the turn when I asked him to help , it could of gone 1 of 2 ways : I could of got away with it and no one could have been coming , or someone I couldn’t see could of come along and I would not have seen them slow or stop and could of ended up with a serious and fail
luckily I’m quite a chatty person and can talk to most people I understand some are shyer than myself but think its a good idea to speak when doing tricky turns etc its shows that you are not just doing something and not thinking about it but have evaluated the situation and are taking enough care to avoid any accidents !
shows a professional driver !! which is what the examiner is looking for after all
I am not talking about a commentary drive even for only a few minutes. I am talking about at key difficult moments telling the examiner why a certain decision was made. For example if you are approaching a hazard on the other side of the road and there is a vehicle coming towards you many candidates are unsure whether to give way or go first. This can play on their mind for the next few minutes. I believe it is beneficial to say “I gave way there because…” Or “I proceeded then because…” The examiner may comment his agreement or even offer some constructive advice.
LGVTrainer:
I am not talking about a commentary drive even for only a few minutes. I am talking about at key difficult moments telling the examiner why a certain decision was made. For example if you are approaching a hazard on the other side of the road and there is a vehicle coming towards you many candidates are unsure whether to give way or go first. This can play on their mind for the next few minutes. I believe it is beneficial to say “I gave way there because…” Or “I proceeded then because…” The examiner may comment his agreement or even offer some constructive advice.
This is different from a commentary drive.
I get you now - a few timed relevant comments rather than a commentary
LGVTrainer:
I am not talking about a commentary drive even for only a few minutes. I am talking about at key difficult moments telling the examiner why a certain decision was made. For example if you are approaching a hazard on the other side of the road and there is a vehicle coming towards you many candidates are unsure whether to give way or go first. This can play on their mind for the next few minutes. I believe it is beneficial to say “I gave way there because…” Or “I proceeded then because…” The examiner may comment his agreement or even offer some constructive advice.
This is different from a commentary drive.
I get you now - a few timed relevant comments rather than a commentary
But there are some for whom, even a few timely comments can be an added pressure.
On my c+e course, I pulled out at a roundabout to turn right after waiting a minute or two for a gap in the traffic.
Literally as soon as I’d changed gear after pulling off a car came steaming round the roundabout.
My instructor was less than impressed at my decision to continue going, and my explanation was if I’d have stopped, the whole cab would be in the road causing more hassle than just slowing down the driver steaming round the roundabout.
My instructor didn’t exactly agree, but whats done is done and explained about checking the roundabout to see whats coming round before moving off (looking for blockers).
I’ve got to agree it is worth saying, explaining or asking, but it also depends on the examiner. The one who in his wisdom passed me actually said at one point we will have to make progress here, in a friendly way and it was appreciated as I was unsure if I should push my way through or not. There was another examiner who I wouldn’t expect to say anything.
Your spending a lot of money and you don’t want to get it wrong, so it is easy some times to be over cautious.
I guess the question that I would put forward for this is… can it actually hurt? (other than feeling like a bit of a dilbert )
For instance, the examiner had thought that it was prudent to hold back before entering a roundabout because he could see a car pulling out, and the driver had indeed waited. But, when talking through your decision, if the reason given for not pulling out was different (and maybe something much more trivial because the driver had missed the car entirely), could that count against you? I understand it’s going to differ depending on examiner, but is it possible you can land yourself in hot water that you had ‘coincidentally’ already avoided by keeping your mouth shut?
I encourage candidates to pass a comment such as “that was nice of him to flash me” where appropriate.
But to do much more is likely to annoy the examiner. I have had comments when I’ve accompanied tests like “yes, I saw him”.
Remember that examiners are trained to observe your drive and, on the whole, they normally make a pretty good job of it. But, with the best will in the world, they can still miss a detail which is why the occasional comment can be of use.
On my test, I exited a mini roundabout and I hit a bump in the road which pushed us sideways in our seats. To me it felt as though we’d hit a kerb, but I knew for a fact I hadn’t as I’d checked all my mirrors etc. I commented something about it being a bumpy road, I think that without doing so I’d have failed.
I think it depends on the personality of the examiner.
My rigid test was completely non conversational, instructions were given and that was it.
My artic test was much more relaxed with the examiner talking to me about my job and generally being a human, I came out of the test centre and started off well straight over a nasty little speed bulge about 4" high at a reasonable speed. He commented that he thought they were better if you hit them with a bit of speed rather than crept over them
At one point in the test he was asking about my family or job or somesuch thing when we came up to a tricky junction, “I’ll just be quiet for a minute and let you deal with this” he said before continuing where he left off.
In fairness I was much more relaxed from the start about this test but he seemed more like an assessor than an examiner and it did wonders for my nerves.
8wheels:
I think it depends on the personality of the examiner.
My rigid test was completely non conversational, instructions were given and that was it.
My artic test was much more relaxed with the examiner talking to me about my job and generally being a human, I came out of the test centre and started off well straight over a nasty little speed bulge about 4" high at a reasonable speed. He commented that he thought they were better if you hit them with a bit of speed rather than crept over them
At one point in the test he was asking about my family or job or somesuch thing when we came up to a tricky junction, “I’ll just be quiet for a minute and let you deal with this” he said before continuing where he left off.
In fairness I was much more relaxed from the start about this test but he seemed more like an assessor than an examiner and it did wonders for my nerves.
I thought you were describing my experience there.
I think in the last 2 and a half years, examiners have become more human and less robotic.
I was pretty lucky with my examiner he was chatty and friendly and we got on well and when I made a decision such as overtaking cyclists or pulling out off junctions I generally gave him an explanation to my decision, I didn’t do this on purpose however I just like a yarn and it just flowed into the conversation I did at a couple off points like another post said ask him to check my left side for me at junctions where visibility was poor he did ask me what I’d do if he wasn’t there jokingly so I my reply was to just pull out and hope for the best he just laughed so it made the whole experience so much more relaxing with him. About a mile from the test centre there’s a set off lights and a junction just before on the right I should have waited way back to leave that junction clear but thinking I already had my pass certificate in hand and a rush off blood to the head I pulled up behind the car infront off me which made me block that junction I realised this so the only way to keep it clear was to get up the arse off the car infront and guess what I did! My heart sank I knew it was an automatic fail when we got back to the test centre he asked me if I would have done anything different during my test I knew what he was getting at and explained to him what that I wouldn’t have done what I had just did.
He smiled said good and passed me my certificate it is a good idea to show them during your test that your professional and offer reasons as to why you’ve done this that or the other but then again it really depends on who you end up sitting next to doesn’t it.
Bottom line, I don’t think they are allowed to fail you for talking too much. I’m sure the most likely reason for failing is nerves (as was case for my first test)
I’d already decided to talk to him more the 2nd time, and it helped me keep calm. After a tricky left, pulling into a bus stop for an ambulance and then meeting a fire engine head on in a narrow road the examiner told me to “keep driving in a relaxed and calm way, just as you have been” which definitely helped me keep my head together.
I think letting a minor mistake force you into a major mistake is another common thing - I had an oncoming car flash me past a parked car and they should have just got out of the way as there was nothing behind them. During training I had got this right every time. But as I had just previously failed to overtake the car when I could have done safely (truck in distance) I wanted to move on, so weaved around the stopped car. Luckily only a minor, but one thing so easily leads to another!
I think that’s quite a good idea, my instructor was talking to me through my test, about general things to be honest, but it did put me at ease and made things a little easier.
Jennie:
When I took my c+e the last examiner I had was quite chatty , to be fair to him I think he was trying to put me at ease as at one point towards the end he actually said to me “you can breath you know !”, at one particular point I didn’t answer straight away as was at a junc turning right , after I had completed this and was travelling straight and up to speed I turned to him and said sorry wasn’t ignoring you just needed to concentrate there , he laughed and said no problem , and at one turn where you cant really see cars coming from the left I asked him to check for me as could not see very well and said I did not want to creep out and cause someone to stop suddenly , he said no problem and helped me out the junc
I don’t think you need a running commentary as in advanced driving tests but when in a tricky situation a quick comment about what you are doing and why goes a long way to telling the examiner that you are being careful and looking to stop yourself causing an accident it shows professionalism and that is what the examiners are looking for, someone who can, when he has passed them not be a hazard to other road users !!
If I had pulled out from the turn when I asked him to help , it could of gone 1 of 2 ways : I could of got away with it and no one could have been coming , or someone I couldn’t see could of come along and I would not have seen them slow or stop and could of ended up with a serious and fail
luckily I’m quite a chatty person and can talk to most people I understand some are shyer than myself but think its a good idea to speak when doing tricky turns etc its shows that you are not just doing something and not thinking about it but have evaluated the situation and are taking enough care to avoid any accidents !
shows a professional driver !! which is what the examiner is looking for after all
This says it all in my opinion. I dont think the OP for suggestion it should be a full running commentary. But in the roundabout example, a very simple conversational style comment is all thats needed. “Look at this slow coach, i think we’ll just let him get round first”
