And all the rest of newish owner drivers and “ole hands” too.I’ve been researching hard on the O/D archive forums and getting some really helpfull info and would like to find out how alot of folks are getting on at achieving “profitable” O/D work if there is such a thing!!! Especially guy’s who where just starting up around this time last year? hows it turning out ?What are the pitfalls that happened?What kind of work did you take on? And any good points as well,although I’m expecting them to be few and far between 
Regards,
Big Truck.
I wouldnt bother; Although I still love the industry and have a great passion fro it, there are just too many provisos and taxes and increases to make it pay. You will have the WTD coming into this country at some stage, road tolls planned for Germany and Austria and now the UK in 2006 which I have read that it will charge approx 13 pence per mile. Most Subbies only get a £1.00 per mile so that is a lot to come out of your pound as well as everything else.
I have worked / subbied for many companies ( English, Irish, Dutch, Belgian) and they are all pretty much of a likeness in what you get. I have won a tender direct for a manufacturer from France, pay a lot better than subbying but you have to get work bth ways and this caused a lot of headaches; often more time than not running empty back to collect another load for which you get nowt unless you have a load on your back.
Its a pity and a great shame. You only have to look at the big players and medium sized companied ( Stobart, Inter City Trucks, Castle Services); if they cant make it profitable with the amount of kit and turnover that they have as well as long standing history , then theres not much chance a one man band making it is there ? For example If they had 10 trucks each generating a turnover of £100,000, their profit margin I expect would be no greater than 5% resulitng in a profit of £50,000. The O/D has just one, leaving you with a profit of £5000!! Not a lot of dosh for all the hard work, headaches etc etc Is it worth it ?
Hi Routier,and welcome to TruckNetUK.
I’m sorry but I don’t really agree with your comments re Stobart and other large companies.
The larger the companies have a lot more overheads than an o/d, by that I mean they have staff who do not actually generate income.
Office staff,cleaners, and managers are all non profit making.
Added to this I really can’t imagine someone at a large company “shopping around” for discounts on parts and tyres etc.
There will always be room for o/d’s and our main priority must be to run as tight a ship as possible and stay within the law.
cheers
STEVE.
steve believe me when i say" the larger companies do shop around for the cheapest prices"
i worked in the office of a very large logistics company on a supermarket contract but as margins were that tight we had to find the cheapest agency drivers, truck parts(serviced in house) etc, etc.
we even had to phone around for backhauls which we did at rates around 50 pence a mile.(the fuel obviously all ready being paid for by the supermarket group in question). but these backhauls basically paid the drivers wages for the day.
there was a stage when we where even hauling adr material. now how often do you see a “trolley” with adr plates showing.
I have to agree with Steve. It is still possible to make it pay, and pay a lot more than just 5% profit, as an OD but you have to do your homework and not just get a truck and think X.■■ pence per mile will do it.
Provide a first class service and know your costs inside out, know the minimum you will run for and don’t go lower than that, keep every thing legal regarding hours, vehicle, taxes, VAT etc and it can be done. It’s not easy but it can be done.
At last abit of optimisim!!!
Just back from speaking to a friend of mine who has recently left Rentatruck here in N.I to set up a new venture with a couple of partners refurbising, servicing and renting all sizes of trucks.I wouldn’t go past him ref servicing if I had a truck but he told me,“Even though I’m cutting my own throat,I wouldn’t put a truck on the road even if I had the gift of one!!!” He said he had heard and seen too many horror stories about O/D’s getting in over their heads with debt ref low haulage rates,massive unplanned break downs,another O/D cutting the rate etc etc.
And there you have probably the biggest reason for o/d new start failures…
Massive unplanned breakdowns! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Any one starting out as an o/d must appreciate the cost of major mechanical breakdowns.
Blown Turbo…approx 650 quid
Engine…approx 4 grand+
Gearbox…approx 3 grand+
Rear axle…approx 2 grand+
cheers
STEVE.
Steve i think you have hit the nail on the head! Im not very up on owning and running my own truck(but this forum is giving me a better insight), and from what i see people that think that a cheap 5k truck will do the job seem very optomistic when you consider road tax, insurance etc. Then there are rising(forever) fuel costs and the maintanance of the truck. If an engine blows in your first 4-5 months of operating, thats another 4 grand. Makes the initial outlay seem very very silly.
I would much rather finance a truck on R&M and just concentrate on fuel(im only an hour and a half from dundalk if that) and my insurance. With a level head if you can stand your ground on rates or even get your own direct work then all the better. Like i said I aint clued up so im probably rambling on here, but with the great help from trucknetuk, hopefully someday i will have my own outfit(s).
regards
kev
PS if anyone wants to give any advice it will be more than welcome.
That would not be a bad way to do it Kev. Since I started with my very first truck, a second hand Scania, I have had them on a full R & M contract every time. Fixed costs and virtually no nasty surprises, the only thing I have to pay for is damage, the most expensive item was a new headlamp after a stone broke one, and tyres.
Makes it much easier to control your costs, about the only variable cost I have is fuel, and you sure can sleep easier at night.
Well, theres obviously something that you are doing or know that I didnt.
I ran 5 , yes 5 trucks, not one and you cant compensate for the following:
- Stupid reckless drivers that dont give a ■■■■ about your vehicles as long as they get paid
- Insurance increase
- Fuel Increase
- Vehicle Theft
- Trailer Damage
- Third party damage
- Vehicle repairs
- Liability Insurance
- Crap Rates
- Road Tolls and increases
All my truck were bought under 3 years old except for the Daf XF which was brand new. I bought a Topline private, cost more than £5000, more like £30,000, had it checked over by my mechanic. Informed it was sound. Took it to scania to get it over hauled, no problems.
3 Weeks later an oil plate gave way forcing the engine to seize. Cost £8,500, downtime 5 weeks, loss of earning and revenue approx £10,000.
I also fail to understand how any O/D can afford the monthly rental or repayment or approx £1300 for a new truck to earn approx a £1.00 a mile. I would be surprised if the majority of O/Ds are earning more than that if they were honest about it.
Also getting reloads back out of the UK if you are doing European is virtually impossible for a decent rate, especially Scotland.
The Blue Chip Companies who are now posting tenders on the Internet ( if you want to know which site send me a PM) know what rates hauliers will stoop to to do the Job and as a result give a reserve prcie of the most they will pay.
Example : Southhall (GB) - Haaften(NL) £150
Cupar (GB) - Haaften (NL) £450
This is offered by a massive blue chip company. Are you telling me you can make that pay ? Think not. You are in the red before you start. 
Theres another Company who, if you win the tender for 12 Months, want you to bid for a further 12 months but you have to give them a discount of 5%!! How do they work that out. Surely it should be an increase. Have they not heard of inflation!!
Routier, Im meant as a driver driving my own vehicle, if and its a big if i put my own operation on the road then i will consider the things you listed, ie driver neglect etc. I do still find it hard to understand how operators can make it on a pound a mile loaded etc, maybe planning backloads etc would help but I imagine that could cause many sleepless nights and a hefty phone bill if you are constantly ringing up looking for return loads. I know of a local guy here in Belfast doing McBurney fridge work and he seems to be doing ok for himself, recently upgraded to a newer wagon, and swears to my father he wouldnt go back to driving for someone else.
But like I said before I have no immediate plans to go down this road but im keen to learn the pros and cons so if and when i do start up I will know what to realisticly expect!!
regards
kev
routier:
I ran 5 , yes 5 trucks, not one and you cant compensate for the following:
I have only ever run one truck and have never wanted to run more than that. I have had offers many times to put more on and I could put another one, maybe two, on the same work I am doing tomorrow but I have no intention of doing that even though I could, with the right driver, make money doing it because I can keep tight control of things with the way it is at the moment.
routier:
- Stupid reckless drivers that dont give a ■■■■ about your vehicles as long as they get paid
Only having one truck this is not an issue for me, I don’t even put a driver on it when I go on holiday as I just park it up then.
routier:
2) Insurance increase
Insurance costs go up yes but so do the rates I get paid so it is manageable. I have also, in 14 years, only had one claim on the truck insurance for a total loss on my Scania when I lost it in a crash, my fault, and have never had a GIT claim. This has helped keep the premiums from getting too silly.
routier:
3) Fuel Increase
Yes, again fuel has risen but I buy none in the UK and it is manageable. I also don’t run at full speed which helps with economy. I also know ODs who do European work but don’t bother claiming back the foreign VAT because ‘it’s too much trouble,’ that’s just throwing money away.
routier:
4) Vehicle Theft
Not happened to me and I can only hope it doesn’t, the truck is equipped with various anti theft measures.
routier:
5) Trailer Damage
I pull a box trailer so curtain/tilt damage isn’t a problem and the trailer I use belongs to the company I pull for and I haven’t damaged it so haven’t had anything to pay.
routier:
6) Third party damage
Nothing that has cost me money.
routier:
7) Vehicle repairs
I lease my truck from new, replace it every three years, and it is on a full R&M contract including Euro wide breakdown so there are no unexpected surprises. The only thing not included in the R&M is tyres and damage but these have never been a great expense.
routier:
9) Liability Insurance
Not that expensive in my opinion
routier:
10) Crap Rates
If you get good work, which is out there, and hang onto it then this isn’t an issue.
routier:
11) Road Tolls and increases
Road Tolls go on the invoice and are paid by the customer.
routier:
All my truck were bought under 3 years old except for the Daf XF which was brand new. I bought a Topline private, cost more than £5000, more like £30,000, had it checked over by my mechanic. Informed it was sound. Took it to scania to get it over hauled, no problems.3 Weeks later an oil plate gave way forcing the engine to seize. Cost £8,500, downtime 5 weeks, loss of earning and revenue approx £10,000.
OUCH, that was not good and I’m sorry to hear about it but I have situations like that covered with the R&M contract.
routier:
I also fail to understand how any O/D can afford the monthly rental or repayment or approx £1300 for a new truck to earn approx a £1.00 a mile. I would be surprised if the majority of O/Ds are earning more than that if they were honest about it.
While maybe the majority aren’t I know many who are earning more than that.
routier:
Also getting reloads back out of the UK if you are doing European is virtually impossible for a decent rate, especially Scotland.The Blue Chip Companies who are now posting tenders on the Internet ( if you want to know which site send me a PM) know what rates hauliers will stoop to to do the Job and as a result give a reserve prcie of the most they will pay.
Example : Southhall (GB) - Haaften(NL) £150
Cupar (GB) - Haaften (NL) £450This is offered by a massive blue chip company. Are you telling me you can make that pay ? Think not. You are in the red before you start.
No, I’m not saying you can make that pay, and I don’t recall saying that. I wouldn’t work for that and anybody who does is kidding themselves and at those rates I’ll decline your offer of the website address.
routier:
Theres another Company who, if you win the tender for 12 Months, want you to bid for a further 12 months but you have to give them a discount of 5%!! How do they work that out. Surely it should be an increase. Have they not heard of inflation!!
Agreed, that is stupid. 
I know what you are saying and I appreciate that I am in a fortunate position but I’m not alone. I’m parked in Belgium tonight with another OD who is also making a good living and whose truck is less than a year old and earlier this week we were working with another whose truck is two months old and is also doing OK, he doesn’t work for the same company as me. I can only say it is still possible to make a decent living as an OD with a lot of planning and a little good fortune.
A lot of ODs are their own worst enemy. The trip I have been on this time involved a lot of work other than driving, 12 hours one day and 4 the next moving equipment from the first floor, packing it and loading it onto five trucks in Munich last week and 13 hours on Monday unpacking it and moving it into place in the building, from three trucks as two loaded for Frankfurt, in Paris on Monday, a total of 29 hours, which gets paid by the customer. We were talking to an OD earlier today at a fuel stop in Luxembourg and his reaction when he heard what we had been doing was ‘You’re mad, I wouldn’t do that.’ (Cleaned up version so the word censor doesn’t kick in) He then went on to complain about rates etc. Doesn’t make sense to me, he won’t do a bit of work to earn a good rate?
Coffee+Atkii,
Do you think those lease/r+m packages being offered in CM on used 98 low KM 4x2 Merc Actros’s from the main dealers for approx £2500 down+ £189/wk over two years are a good deal at the minute?
Also Atkii, I see an outfit called HYMIX looking for O/D’s for mixer work in T+D whats the “craic” about them?
Thanks guy’s.
Im glad that things are OK for you and wish you continued success. I am not sure if you are direct for a cusotmer or are subcontracted to another Haulage Company. If its the former then Yes, I agree you will make money, especially if they can give return loads from Europe.
Here are a list (just some that I know of) of Haulage Companies and what they pay per Mile/KM as at the end of 2002
Nedexco (NL) 47 Pence per KM; 48 Pence if you wagon is in their livery. Guaranteed Not much sleep!
McBurney (IRL/GB) 56 Pence per Km
Maenhout (B) 90 Pence per Mile
Derijke (NL) 1.00 Per Mile
Post-Kogeko 1.00 per Mile
Rosewood - Dont Bother
Carna (IRL) - Round Trip Money approx £1800 from Limerick (IRL) / Gotenborg (S);
Gipping Containers approx 62/65 pence per Km, must have own trailer
Taylored Lines; Hayton Coulthards ; Wincanton ; CRL ; Meridian Shipping;JOb Rate; Rates not V Good! Takes ages to get paid
Pentons;Mont Blanc - OK…ish; not brilliant; takes a while to get your money!
There you have it!!
CARNA Even there drivers used to have to fight to get paid. I remember as a lad my Uncle drove for them pulling hanging beef to the south of France then backloading with fresh fruit to Fyffes in Dublin at a drivers wage of £380. He didnt stay very long as having to fight to get such a dismall eage just wasnt working, Although I must add that he then went to a South Armagh Haulier, Orange, white and black scanias doing Meadows work and the wages werent much better, the wage he was quoted was in the old Irish punt and it didnt really amount to much more(doing Danzas work into Esbjerg then backloading to Ireland with airplane engine components)
regards
kev
routier:
Im glad that things are OK for you and wish you continued success. I am not sure if you are direct for a cusotmer or are subcontracted to another Haulage Company. If its the former then Yes, I agree you will make money, especially if they can give return loads from Europe.
I am on for a transport company doing the work they get direct from the customer, has only been through one set of hands by the time I get it. 
I load both ways for them and also do internal work in and work between other EU member states. The work is also not always just straight haulage. Some weeks other work is involved as well such as packing/unpacking and moving equipment to and from the trailer which could involve negotiating lifts and stairs as in this trips 2 tonne UPS kit and 1 tonne air con units from the first floor. If you can find work in something of a niche market it usually pays a better rate
routier:
Here are a list (just some that I know of) of Haulage Companies and what they pay per Mile/KM as at the end of 2002Nedexco (NL) 47 Pence per KM; 48 Pence if you wagon is in their livery. Guaranteed Not much sleep!
McBurney (IRL/GB) 56 Pence per Km
Maenhout (B) 90 Pence per Mile
Derijke (NL) 1.00 Per Mile
Post-Kogeko 1.00 per Mile
Rosewood - Dont Bother
Carna (IRL) - Round Trip Money approx £1800 from Limerick (IRL) / Gotenborg (S);
Gipping Containers approx 62/65 pence per Km, must have own trailerTaylored Lines; Hayton Coulthards ; Wincanton ; CRL ; Meridian Shipping;JOb Rate; Rates not V Good! Takes ages to get paid
Pentons;Mont Blanc - OK…ish; not brilliant; takes a while to get your money!
There you have it!!
The worst rate I have had for a trip this year was 124 ppm, the trips aren’t charged or worked out at a pence per mile rate but that is what it worked out to. I get paid by BACs around the 20th - 22nd of each month and that is up to the end of the previous month. Money is going into the bank tomorrow and the oldest invoice is dated 5/10 and the most recent they are paying is dated 26/10. There are still companies, thankfully, who don’t just look at the bottom line but take into account service provided etc.
I have been with them for 14 years and we have a good relationship but it could all change as you are only ever as good as your last job.
Big Truck:
Coffee+Atkii,
Do you think those lease/r+m packages being offered in CM on used 98 low KM 4x2 Merc Actros’s from the main dealers for approx £2500 down+ £189/wk over two years are a good deal at the minute?
I don’t know much about them but another OD I know did enquire but he said the R&M had lots of exclusions and you are getting a five year old vehicle so he didn’t take it any further as he thought it too risky and he ended up leasing a new MAN instead.
I seem to remember Lucy looked into this one as well.
If I remember right they will not look at new starters either.
cheers
STEVE.
routier:
All my truck were bought under 3 years old except for the Daf XF which was brand new. I bought a Topline private, cost more than £5000, more like £30,000, had it checked over by my mechanic. Informed it was sound. Took it to scania to get it over hauled, no problems.3 Weeks later an oil plate gave way forcing the engine to seize. Cost £8,500, downtime 5 weeks, loss of earning and revenue approx £10,000.
Downtime 5 weeks ■■? 
I don’t think most people could cope with a repair time like that!!!
Another haulier I work with only had 1 week downtime to have a new engine fitted to a twenty yearold Ford Cargo !!!
However can a three year old Scania take that long to get repaired■■?
cheers
STEVE.
Big Truck:
Coffee+Atkii,
Do you think those lease/r+m packages being offered in CM on used 98 low KM 4x2 Merc Actros’s from the main dealers for approx £2500 down+ £189/wk over two years are a good deal at the minute?
Steve’s right, I did look at this deal…which is basically a good 'un, but has 2 major downsides…
The first is that they won’t touch a new start. The deal is worked through their finance company who need a year’s accounts…as soon as you start financing from outside the price goes up.
The second is that you could actually buy the same truck, through the same dealer with exactly the same r+m deal for less per week, and you’d have something to sell at the end of the payment period.