AF1:
I’ve only done it once and that was due to trailer brakes locking solid with the slightest application of the footbrake which wouldn’t release until the vehicle was stationary. Dropped EBS suzie and yellow line off and drove accordingly on the way home.
Interesting. Thank you.
dieseldog999:
Don-Bur:
yourhavingalarf:
I have known drivers disconnect the EBS lead deliberately to increase cornering speeds with auto braked trailers.We had also suspected that but found it difficult to believe. Thank you for the feedback.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
whats difficult about understanding that some drivers would rather drive a lorry with 1 less irritating and unrequired electronic hindrance ■■
As manufacturers, we understand what the EBS line does, what safety features it controls and what can happen if it’s not connected. As a result, it’s surprising to us that it might be disconnected to increase cornering speeds.
Toward the end of this post, we’ll highlight what the EBS line does (only for those who may not be fully aware) and why it should always be connected. In addition, we’ll have a better understanding of the issues and will be in a better position to develop safety systems to assist.
peirre:
Slightly (way) off topic rant,the 60? new/refurb DonBur deckers recently supplied to B&Q are horrendous, the sliders at the front for the suzies need the Incredible Hulk to drag it in/out, the new feature that screams at you if you pull the red airline off before pulling the parking brake on and winding down the legs, is something that will ultimately malfunction and be an added maintenance cost, I think that it will eventually get disconnected when the pointy shoe brigade figure out it’s cheaper to disconnect it rather than repair it. I know they are trying to teach /re-educate drivers how to drop trailers because Tomaski Dicksku & Harryski have dropped several trailers on their knees and it’s costing them money, but drivers do the trailer walk round routine their way and you’ll never change them.
I figure B&Q spec’d the trailers, the fleet dept and DB R&D team must’ve stop off at my local kindergarten for inspiration as the clear windows in the upper inner curtain are pointless as it easier just to look up thru the bottom of the mesh deck to see what’s there (what difficult about oh look …there’s a pallet I’ll have to pull the curtain out the way). The clear panels will ultimately become discoloured, torn or damaged rendering them useless.
The elastic fitted to the inner curtain straps is a wonderful thing, but when the person who buckles it up doesn’t pull the straps up tight when they buckle up it leaves a lot of “give” in the straps, which is not ideal if you happen to pick up a sealed trunk or inter site load and discover at the delivery point when you open it up that a 6” strip of elastic was only thing holding the hook and load in place.
Some of the TIR cords supplied with the trailers have eyelets fitted rather than ■■■■■■■, these eyelets connect to a short cord for the encripter, the eyelets are getting crushed (probably by the Forkies who don’t stow the cords while unloading) rendering them useless.
The bracket for the winding handles doesn’t retain the handle and it bounces out while your going down the road. The pointy shoe brigade has told the drivers not to bend the bracket up so it grips the handle as it’s a “warranty” issue, meanwhile the driver faces a potential issue of being stopped by DSVA coz it’s swinging in the wind.
Why B&Q never spec’d ratchets at both ends of the curtain is a mystery, because if you have a split load or a few pallets of backhaul that’s at the front or on the swan neck it would be easier just to open the front, but no you have to undo all the curtain buckles, release the ratchet at the back just to open the front, which is a real laugh at this time of year when storm Jorge (or whichever storm) is blowing
I fancy that the bulk of those issues are down to the B&Q fleet engineer being an idiot, but as Big Sir appointed him he will simply carry on making gross errors until Big Sir is found out and got rid of (OK paid off)
The new Big Sir will of course put his own yes man into the position as fleet engineer who “may” know his stuff & more importantly be allowed some say.
I don’t see many not connected, what I do see more often is a defect for EBS failure, when checked it turns out mainly to be a faulty lead i.e corrosion in the plug, or the EBS lead on the unit is in the storage holder rather than the wired socket.
dave docwra:
I don’t see many not connected, what I do see more often is a defect for EBS failure, when checked it turns out mainly to be a faulty lead i.e corrosion in the plug, or the EBS lead on the unit is in the storage holder rather than the wired socket.
Thank you. We’ve seen a number where the tractor unit end of the lead is in the dummy holder: an easy mistake; especially if it’s dark.
The faulty leads/ plugs/ sockets are more concerning and again comes down to maintenance.
Don-Bur:
dave docwra:
I don’t see many not connected, what I do see more often is a defect for EBS failure, when checked it turns out mainly to be a faulty lead i.e corrosion in the plug, or the EBS lead on the unit is in the storage holder rather than the wired socket.Thank you. We’ve seen a number where the tractor unit end of the lead is in the dummy holder: an easy mistake; especially if it’s dark.
The faulty leads/ plugs/ sockets are more concerning and again comes down to maintenance.
I have found that corrosion prevention by giving the socket a quick spray of WD40 on PMI can result in the rubber gasket behind the pin base plate swelling and making it very difficult or even impossible to push the plug in far enough to fasten the clip. So far I haven’t seen the same thing happening with electrical cleaner.
I am very pleased to see this sort of feedback/interaction from a manufacturer directed specifically at us, the end users, particularly as it seems that any criticism is not being brushed off in an aloof manner. We need more of this please, the greater understanding we have of what systems do the safer all of us will be. So much of the time we feel that our experience of actually operating or maintaining a product just never gets back to where it might influence an improvement. Please keep it up.
If one compares the level of technical knowledge required to obtain a heavy vehicle licence in the UK with what is required in the USA then the UK lags behind considerably.
cav551:
I have found that corrosion prevention by giving the socket a quick spray of WD40 on PMI can result in the rubber gasket behind the pin base plate swelling and making it very difficult or even impossible to push the plug in far enough to fasten the clip. So far I haven’t seen the same thing happening with electrical cleaner.
Also very interesting. Based on earlier comments, if it doesn’t go in far enough to get the clip over (which some don’t) , this could well be enough to prevent a connection.
cav551:
I am very pleased to see this sort of feedback/interaction from a manufacturer directed specifically at us, the end users, particularly as it seems that any criticism is not being brushed off in an aloof manner. We need more of this please, the greater understanding we have of what systems do the safer all of us will be. So much of the time we feel that our experience of actually operating or maintaining a product just never gets back to where it might influence an improvement. Please keep it up.If one compares the level of technical knowledge required to obtain a heavy vehicle licence in the UK with what is required in the USA then the UK lags behind considerably.
I have already passed (with permission from Peirre) one comment directly to B&Q Compliance.
If we are to remain at the forefront of “innovation”, we should be interacting with end users to develop solutions that work better, operate faster, don’t break and provide the best return on investment. In our view, the drivers are the end users of many assemblies and components on a trailer. The consignors and H&S teams have a different set of interests. We have to react to all party requirements.
We would like to thank everyone who participated in this feedback.
As an update, we can confirm that the ISO 7638 (EBS) affects the following:
It does not power either marker lights (24N) or GPS/Telematics which are unrelated.
There are other functions as well, as CAN data passes from the tractor down the EBS line (such as the ECU recording tractor time) but these are the critical ones.
Aside from being a legal requirement, the EBS line is a very important power and communications line. Without power, you’re just pulling a dead weight behind you with rudimentary yellow air-line braking only. A lack of EBS can lead to brake locking, jacknifing, bridge strike, longer braking distances and rollover.
More info is available at donbur.co.uk/news/disconnec … -accidents
Thank you again for looking and sharing. It means a lot to us.
Don-Bur:
cav551:
I have found that corrosion prevention by giving the socket a quick spray of WD40 on PMI can result in the rubber gasket behind the pin base plate swelling and making it very difficult or even impossible to push the plug in far enough to fasten the clip. So far I haven’t seen the same thing happening with electrical cleaner.Also very interesting. Based on earlier comments, if it doesn’t go in far enough to get the clip over (which some don’t) , this could well be enough to prevent a connection.
cav551:
I am very pleased to see this sort of feedback/interaction from a manufacturer directed specifically at us, the end users, particularly as it seems that any criticism is not being brushed off in an aloof manner. We need more of this please, the greater understanding we have of what systems do the safer all of us will be. So much of the time we feel that our experience of actually operating or maintaining a product just never gets back to where it might influence an improvement. Please keep it up.If one compares the level of technical knowledge required to obtain a heavy vehicle licence in the UK with what is required in the USA then the UK lags behind considerably.
I have already passed (with permission from Peirre) one comment directly to B&Q Compliance.
If we are to remain at the forefront of “innovation”, we should be interacting with end users to develop solutions that work better, operate faster, don’t break and provide the best return on investment. In our view, the drivers are the end users of many assemblies and components on a trailer. The consignors and H&S teams have a different set of interests. We have to react to all party requirements.
We would like to thank everyone who participated in this feedback.
As an update, we can confirm that the ISO 7638 (EBS) affects the following:
- Powers the trailer’s brain and powers air valve solenoids.
- Auto adjusts suspension relative to load weight and braking weight shift. Also returns to ride height if suspension has been fully raised for loading.
- Power the trailer roll stability (RSS). There are 3 phases of severity but all have some degree of auto-braking to protect the driver.
- Adjusts braking power relative bogie weight to prevent locking or insufficient braking force (LSV). Also optimises brake liner life.
- Ensures fast electronic braking response time. Without it, the braking system relies on the slower response time of air passing down the yellow line.
- ABS anti-lock braking (ABS). Without EBS power, the solenoids do not have the ability to oscillate the braking power.
It does not power either marker lights (24N) or GPS/Telematics which are unrelated.
There are other functions as well, as CAN data passes from the tractor down the EBS line (such as the ECU recording tractor time) but these are the critical ones.
Aside from being a legal requirement, the EBS line is a very important power and communications line. Without power, you’re just pulling a dead weight behind you with rudimentary yellow air-line braking only. A lack of EBS can lead to brake locking, jacknifing, bridge strike, longer braking distances and rollover.
More info is available at donbur.co.uk/news/disconnec … -accidents
Thank you again for looking and sharing. It means a lot to us.
The only reason you hit a bridge is being a knob, not connecting the ebs/abs lead will not make you hit a bridge
Don-Bur:
5) Ensures fast electronic braking response time. Without it, the braking system relies on the slower response time of air passing down the yellow line.
I was told by a fitter that when the EBS lead is connected the yellow airline is only used as a secondary brake line, and that in normal operation the brake application is controlled by the EBS signal from the unit, he demonstrated it by connecting only the red airline and the EBS lead, and when the brake pedal was pressed the trailer brakes came on, he did say it would only work with certain unit/trailer combos.
Is this true? Industry standard?
biggriffin:
Don-Bur:
cav551:
I have found that corrosion prevention by giving the socket a quick spray of WD40 on PMI can result in the rubber gasket behind the pin base plate swelling and making it very difficult or even impossible to push the plug in far enough to fasten the clip. So far I haven’t seen the same thing happening with electrical cleaner.Also very interesting. Based on earlier comments, if it doesn’t go in far enough to get the clip over (which some don’t) , this could well be enough to prevent a connection.
cav551:
I am very pleased to see this sort of feedback/interaction from a manufacturer directed specifically at us, the end users, particularly as it seems that any criticism is not being brushed off in an aloof manner. We need more of this please, the greater understanding we have of what systems do the safer all of us will be. So much of the time we feel that our experience of actually operating or maintaining a product just never gets back to where it might influence an improvement. Please keep it up.If one compares the level of technical knowledge required to obtain a heavy vehicle licence in the UK with what is required in the USA then the UK lags behind considerably.
I have already passed (with permission from Peirre) one comment directly to B&Q Compliance.
If we are to remain at the forefront of “innovation”, we should be interacting with end users to develop solutions that work better, operate faster, don’t break and provide the best return on investment. In our view, the drivers are the end users of many assemblies and components on a trailer. The consignors and H&S teams have a different set of interests. We have to react to all party requirements.
We would like to thank everyone who participated in this feedback.
As an update, we can confirm that the ISO 7638 (EBS) affects the following:
- Powers the trailer’s brain and powers air valve solenoids.
- Auto adjusts suspension relative to load weight and braking weight shift. Also returns to ride height if suspension has been fully raised for loading.
- Power the trailer roll stability (RSS). There are 3 phases of severity but all have some degree of auto-braking to protect the driver.
- Adjusts braking power relative bogie weight to prevent locking or insufficient braking force (LSV). Also optimises brake liner life.
- Ensures fast electronic braking response time. Without it, the braking system relies on the slower response time of air passing down the yellow line.
- ABS anti-lock braking (ABS). Without EBS power, the solenoids do not have the ability to oscillate the braking power.
It does not power either marker lights (24N) or GPS/Telematics which are unrelated.
There are other functions as well, as CAN data passes from the tractor down the EBS line (such as the ECU recording tractor time) but these are the critical ones.
Aside from being a legal requirement, the EBS line is a very important power and communications line. Without power, you’re just pulling a dead weight behind you with rudimentary yellow air-line braking only. A lack of EBS can lead to brake locking, jacknifing, bridge strike, longer braking distances and rollover.
More info is available at donbur.co.uk/news/disconnec … -accidents
Thank you again for looking and sharing. It means a lot to us.
The only reason you hit a bridge is being a knob, not connecting the ebs/abs lead will not make you hit a bridge
You need to read point 2 above, again, I think…
Don-Bur:
dave docwra:
I don’t see many not connected, what I do see more often is a defect for EBS failure, when checked it turns out mainly to be a faulty lead i.e corrosion in the plug, or the EBS lead on the unit is in the storage holder rather than the wired socket.Thank you. We’ve seen a number where the tractor unit end of the lead is in the dummy holder: an easy mistake; especially if it’s dark.
I have heard of two incidents that were a result of this which was a big surprise to me until I discovered how easy it can happen if you are not on your regular unit.
Now if I jump into a strange unit for the day I’m real careful hooking up this one.
I’m surprised this possibility of plugging into the wrong “socket” wasn’t designed out initially or even recently.
Don-Bur:
Strapping is another issue but one that we’re very keen to address. As part of the HSE Load Restraint Steering Group, we’re all too aware of the dangers of poor trailer specification, damaged straps and failure to apply them correctly. We’re happy to answer questions on a different thread on TN if anyone is interested.
Load securing is probably the most misunderstood and contentious subject on these forums if you look at previous discussions.
Much of the confusion Imo seems to stem from the DVSA or whoever reinterpreting the rules and providing occasionally misleading or confusing information on the matter.
The pointy shoes are clueless of course but not short of opinion.
A well informed discussion on the subject would be fantastic but if I were you I’d browse some of the previous discussions first so you get an idea of where frontline thinking is at the moment.
This thread, would be more informative and better use of our time than some of the CPC courses I’ve been on.
GasGas:
biggriffin:
Don-Bur:
cav551:
I have found that corrosion prevention by giving the socket a quick spray of WD40 on PMI can result in the rubber gasket behind the pin base plate swelling and making it very difficult or even impossible to push the plug in far enough to fasten the clip. So far I haven’t seen the same thing happening with electrical cleaner.Also very interesting. Based on earlier comments, if it doesn’t go in far enough to get the clip over (which some don’t) , this could well be enough to prevent a connection.
cav551:
I am very pleased to see this sort of feedback/interaction from a manufacturer directed specifically at us, the end users, particularly as it seems that any criticism is not being brushed off in an aloof manner. We need more of this please, the greater understanding we have of what systems do the safer all of us will be. So much of the time we feel that our experience of actually operating or maintaining a product just never gets back to where it might influence an improvement. Please keep it up.If one compares the level of technical knowledge required to obtain a heavy vehicle licence in the UK with what is required in the USA then the UK lags behind considerably.
I have already passed (with permission from Peirre) one comment directly to B&Q Compliance.
If we are to remain at the forefront of “innovation”, we should be interacting with end users to develop solutions that work better, operate faster, don’t break and provide the best return on investment. In our view, the drivers are the end users of many assemblies and components on a trailer. The consignors and H&S teams have a different set of interests. We have to react to all party requirements.
We would like to thank everyone who participated in this feedback.
As an update, we can confirm that the ISO 7638 (EBS) affects the following:
- Powers the trailer’s brain and powers air valve solenoids.
- Auto adjusts suspension relative to load weight and braking weight shift. Also returns to ride height if suspension has been fully raised for loading.
- Power the trailer roll stability (RSS). There are 3 phases of severity but all have some degree of auto-braking to protect the driver.
- Adjusts braking power relative bogie weight to prevent locking or insufficient braking force (LSV). Also optimises brake liner life.
- Ensures fast electronic braking response time. Without it, the braking system relies on the slower response time of air passing down the yellow line.
- ABS anti-lock braking (ABS). Without EBS power, the solenoids do not have the ability to oscillate the braking power.
It does not power either marker lights (24N) or GPS/Telematics which are unrelated.
There are other functions as well, as CAN data passes from the tractor down the EBS line (such as the ECU recording tractor time) but these are the critical ones.
Aside from being a legal requirement, the EBS line is a very important power and communications line. Without power, you’re just pulling a dead weight behind you with rudimentary yellow air-line braking only. A lack of EBS can lead to brake locking, jacknifing, bridge strike, longer braking distances and rollover.
More info is available at donbur.co.uk/news/disconnec … -accidents
Thank you again for looking and sharing. It means a lot to us.
The only reason you hit a bridge is being a knob, not connecting the ebs/abs lead will not make you hit a bridge
You need to read point 2 above, again, I think…
I stand by what I said… It’s also the drivers responsibility to ensure his vehicle is presented correctly before he goes out, after raising the rear suspension, pull the handle out so it levels,or manually return it to ride height… Use to work in the oldern days before we all had ebs.
Ares:
Don-Bur:
5) Ensures fast electronic braking response time. Without it, the braking system relies on the slower response time of air passing down the yellow line.I was told by a fitter that when the EBS lead is connected the yellow airline is only used as a secondary brake line, and that in normal operation the brake application is controlled by the EBS signal from the unit, he demonstrated it by connecting only the red airline and the EBS lead, and when the brake pedal was pressed the trailer brakes came on, he did say it would only work with certain unit/trailer combos.
Is this true? Industry standard?
It is technically possible to use the EBS electrical brake signal only without a yellow line air signal; however, the whole point is to have a secondary (air) backup in case the EBS line is disconnected. If this issue is a common as we think, not using the yellow line would be catastrophic.
Hurryup&wait:
I have heard of two incidents that were a result of this which was a big surprise to me until I discovered how easy it can happen if you are not on your regular unit.Now if I jump into a strange unit for the day I’m real careful hooking up this one.
I’m surprised this possibility of plugging into the wrong “socket” wasn’t designed out initially or even recently.
Interestingly, if one driver uses the wrong plug to fit to the trailer once, it becomes typically cleaner (because it’s been handled) than the other one. The next time you couple up, if it’s not your unit, you might think that it’s the cleaner of the two lines that needs connecting to the trailer.
Some fleets bolt the live plug to the back of the tractor so this isn’t possible but, you’re right, the two sockets/plugs should be different.
Hurryup&wait:
A well informed discussion on the subject would be fantastic but if I were you I’d browse some of the previous discussions first so you get an idea of where frontline thinking is at the moment.
Thank you. We will.
A lot of the problems stem from the fact that the legal requirement is defined very briefly (Road Traffic Act & Road Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations), leaving it open to interpretation; however, there are well-documented best-practice guidelines can can be applied to most scenarios. We’ll comment further separately.
Franglais:
This thread, would be more informative and better use of our time than some of the CPC courses I’ve been on.
Thank you! We’re also learning a lot from it.
I can count…
On one hand the number of trailers from all manufacturers that have connections that line up with the unit.
Whilst it wouldn’t solve every problem but it would really help to stop ‘suzi tangle’ or particularly with fridge trailers ‘great big suzi grease ball’ syndrome.
Red to red, yellow to yellow etc etc without crossing over or under.
Is this question asked in regards to your double deck trailers that self level the suspension based on the EBS being plugged in? A certain company who uses your double deck trailers who run them in a light blue livery and have a smile on them who use any old Tom, ■■■■ and Harry have had bridge strikes with your trailers, it’s a case of drivers being clueless of the height, drivers running with their mid axles up on Scania trucks, drivers not plugging in their EBS cables because they think it will stop that EBS alarm that goes off due to faulty EBS cables. Although I have personally witnessed one of your DD trailers not self levelling with no EBS warning alarm showing on the trailer.