cant help with the open tir , but i do wish for the t forms to come back , the sooner we are out of the eu the better ,
the days spent at irun or la jonquera waiting to clear were some of the best times of my life , get there for just after dinner , go back in the morning 
ahhhh memories 
The first time I went to Zona Franca the customs went on strike for 3 weeks. They were protesting against the EEC . I was on salary + ex,s. Great days!
porkifer:
cant help with the open tir , but i do wish for the t forms to come back , the sooner we are out of the eu the better ,
the days spent at irun or la jonquera waiting to clear were some of the best times of my life , get there for just after dinner , go back in the morning
ahhhh memories
Ah yes, imports in the morning, exports in the afternoon. You knew were you stood with that system and could plan your ‘late’ arrival accordingly. Happy days.
All we had to do was get there. Once the papers were in the firm was covered & the customer paid the waiting time.Groupage Ruled!!!
the issuing authority simply stamp a normal carnet “open and heavy” or similar and it negates having to seal the load - this is all we use now as we no longer have any trailers with GV.60, only open flats etc
doesn’t stop most UK customs (except dover) saying they’ll come out and seal the trailer though
Wheel Nut:
Can someone explain Open TIR to me.I have done cross border work with TIR carnet, bond and manifest when my GV60 had expired, but I never got the gist of an Open TIR
I know you would use it for an abnormal load or something, but how?
The “closed” TIR was as you said; TIR carnet + GV60 etc. Theoretically, it meant that you were sealed at the office of departure, and any transit countries along the way weren’t interested as long as the seal was intact at their borders in/out. The seal would come off having crossed the border of the country of destination. Therefore, it was a speedy (allegedly) transit system with minimal intervention along the way.
“Open” TIR is when the load is unsealable, or lacking a GV60 (in the old days) or for some other reason. That meant that you had to stop for full customs controls at each border in/out of each country including all transit countries. Obviously, it’s a much lengthier process with the potential for much grief.
Remember that TIR in any form is for journeys outside of the EU.
My own reminiscences of open TIR were in '83-'85. Typically, I used to load in Milan for delivery in Oslo, but I did do others. We had no GV60, so the whole job was “open” TIR. Norway still isn’t in the EU. Nor was Austria at the time, but that wasn’t a problem, because for Austria you could buy green postage stamps and stick them in box 47 on the back of the old (black and white) “T” form- no big deal.
Then into West Germany (Kufstein/Kiefersfelden) as was, no problem there “T” form and Tankschein in hand. Then, pressing northwards, you’d come to the border with East Germany (DDR) Rudolphstein/Hirshberg. There you would lose the “T” forms and you had no customs docs!!!
Cross to the DDR side, then fill in one of their own customs declarations (everything in the load written in German + no agents at the border!!) open the side for inspection, and then they’d seal you up. You then went to your port (Sassnitz) and the process of opening a side began again. Once they were happy that the cargo tallied, they’d let you get on the boat having taken their paperwork off you. (Give the DDR boat a miss- cos the Swedish one was better!)
You then landed in Sweden (Trelleborg) and went to the transit counter to buy a Scandinavian version of a “T” form valid for travel within Sweden, Norway and Finland- none of them were in the EU at that time, but they had their own system between themselves. At the Sweden/Norway border (Svinesund/Halden) transit with paperwork, so no delay. Next was to clear forward in Oslo and do the drops. All in a 1628 Merc with no night heater!
You might remember coming out of Spain with no GV60. National document to La Jonquera, then into Le Boulou to buy a “T” form- technically you were “open” TIR for the Spanish bit of that journey.
The moral to the story?? He who has an ECMT permit also needs a night heater.
I hope that helps.
Wayner wrote
can anybody tell me what TIR means please?
Here you Wayner are a few jotting from the book i am doing a bit long winded though
This post bring back some memories good and bad about TIR running which was not easy so ill go through a trip to say Qater.Im sorry its a bit long winded but these are extractes from my trips but it explaines quite a bit about TIR running.
First of all when the load came on your passport had to go to an agent for the visas Alan Dayson used to use Falcongate in Regents St London but in our case we all had 2 passports and traveled on one while the other was away getting visas sometimes we had to pick the passport up at Regents st just park outside the office the night before imagine parking there now.
The next stage was down to Dover and park on the left under the cliff for a day ussually while the T form for the red diesel, Carnet TIR and arabic translation of the manifest was made and these had to be right because if some office prick thats tired makes a mistake here it wont be him thats sitting in no mans land feeding the local agents big bucks to sort it (One chassis number wrong on a tractor cost Daysons £500 and 4 days at Kapicule)
The next stage was in to the cliff side lane of the custom shed and the back stairs which was the TIR stairs the T form lads used the other stairs always a que then we had 6 seals to apply 2 on the TIR plates front and back 2 on the belly tank (4000lt cherry) 1on the cap and one on the OPEN tap (left hand treaded taps) then 1 on the TIR cord then off we go.
We had to stop at every border because one page on the entry to the country and one page at the exit miss one and you could be sent back,one of the abvantages were this was done at the actual border (24hrs) and not in the customs places 12hrs)
The t form for the fuel only lasted to the last border out of the west where it had to be cleared customs 30 minute job for me the CZ border at Waidhaus.
Then it was plain sailing to the turkish border then the fun began (tommy turk dont trust anyone) so it agents and 6 offices to visit with tommy turk vip in every one taking DMs of you (£500 worth) plus tommy turk cant que.about a days work once you are in the border then off again to LondraCamp at Istanbul for efes control photo below is the que at Kapic the first truck is bulgarian auto transport the forerunner of willy betz and the second truck is one of F troop(Rumo) strange to see one on its own they are normally a convoy with repairs every few miles.
Then the efes control at Istanbul
Then next morning up early as we have to get over the Bosphoros bridge before 7 am as the bridge is closed to TIR trafic 7am until 10am then we are leaving Europe and entering Asia the first stop is TIR police control at Bolu for the police stamp plus any police that stop you on the road for checks a packet of Marlboro this out as this is Malboro countryplus the phrase
tammam arbi yok problem ticshicue
(turkish for
you well my friend no problem thank you
)then over the Bolu mountain range and down death valley to the Telex Motel in Ankara
The Bosphorus bridge in Istanbul
The start of the Bolu pass
The park chef,taxi driver,night watchman,boiler stalker,keep the wombles out chef (bulgarian auto transport drivers) at the Telex motel Ankara
Then the next morning the police stamp in Ankara and drive thru the black valley so called because the soil is salty and black with tornados blowing to the next police control at Aksaray then over the scenic Tarsus mountain range to drop down from 3000 metres to sea level at Adana usually the American bar (so called as it is next to the American base at Insurlic?)
Driving down Tarsus
The next morning a good breakfast as now its hard work not many kms to the Irag border at Zacho but the roads are mainly unmetled as the picture shows
plus 2 more police stamps before Zacho where the carnet TIR finishes and another que to get in to the border we saved a lot of time here as our Arabic translations were done by Falcongate in London
Pictured below the que at Zacho with Billy Bean (left) from Falcongate
This as far as i have got with my book at the moment i now have 85 pages and the retired publisher that is helping me reccons ill do over 200 pages without the photos but i think the photos make the story but seemingly photos are expensive to publish 
please dont coment on the grammer as these are only mainly jottings
Great stuff Klunk. Looking forward to reading the book.
The photos will make the storys, yarns come to life i say because nearly every place we stopped there is always a yarn attached to it and a photo but it a expensive way seemingly to do it
The yarn attached to this picture involves a bus, a taxi, 5 attempts at this hill, snow chains and finally the windows in the factory on the left and the story is nearly 4 a4 pages so to me without the pic there is no yarn.
Excellent stuff Klunk. At least 1 guarenteed sale here mate regardless of price
Just don’t tell any of Ralphies 22 year olds as they like to think they were the first to get everywhere
Excellent read that klunk, hope to hear many more tales like that.
Any other ex M/E drivers on here fancy letting the rest of us in on some of the stories and pics you must have from that era?
Cheers, bullitt.
I am indebted for the answer on “Open TIR” However my question has started a new debate about Middle East and Eastern Bloc transport.
We could do with this thread splitting and let klunk and others carry on with the tales.
All I remember about the police controls is that if you missed the first one you went back to go and didnt collect 200 quid 
The same thing happened to a good friend who had years of experience and he forgot to collect his Bos paper after a serious Efes control.
Another question. I never understood the logic of the Alpine Turk customs sewing selected cartons and boxes up with thread. 
Sorry about going off the thread Wheel Nut the trouble is someone reminds my senile memories of something and off i go thats why i am trying now when these brainstorms happen i write it down
So back to the oridginal open TIR the only time i went open was with a 12ton excavator loaded with David Duxbury who also loaded the same which was wider than the trailer only 4 inch on either side it was sealed and there was no way that anything bigger than a cat could get in but what problems that caused overwidth permits and checks at every border crossing then in rumania the bloody thing moved on the beck bottom roads buts thats another story i have just remembered
Wheel Nut:
Another question. I never understood the logic of the Alpine Turk customs sewing selected cartons and boxes up with thread.
it’s called “Kolliverschlüss” and as you rightly said, they’d sew boxes with thread and then put seals on them. They also drilled holes in packing crates and put sealing wire through- then sealed the wire.
I did JCBs this way. They were too tall to put the tilt sheet back after loading. So they tied the JCB cab doors with sealing string and sealed the two ends, plus they did the packing crates of spare parts as I said above. Trailer not sealed, but still acceptable to Customs.
My brother accompanied me on this trip and took the photo in Switzerland.
I THINK it was in 1986. I dumped the tilt sheet on top of the front JCB due to height issues when neatly folded and placed on top of the trailer.
To answer your question, the logic of any Customs sealing operation was to stop people avoiding import taxes. As you know, an intact seal meant that you were processed (relatively) quickly. A broken or missing seal usually meant an offload onto their bays for a full inspection + dire consequences if the load was short.
On the subject of sealing trailers, bout the strangest one i had was a year or so ago loading in the balkans, forget exactly were, but consisted of a bit of string, card and some melted tar, did the job tho.
sdj
did try and put up a pic of said seal, but dont seem to be working
It works perfectly Big Les, sorry Biggles
I have seen a similar type of seal when loading prunes from the former Yugoslavia
Thanks very much for the wonderful read and also the great pictures
any chance of some more tales ,please.
Exellent pictures and tales Klunk you just jump started the old memory banks 
, let me know when the book is published.
.
That queery that a member made about “Open T.I.R.”,reminds me of the time I was working in our depot for a while,(late 1970’s)Turning round motors just returned from the Middle East while the drivers had a couple of days off.
We had loaded a tilt with a mixture of gasbottles,oxygen,helium,argon,acetylene,a travelling bomb,for overland delivery to the UAE.
A good friend of mine,Alan Jones from Barnsley,was taking it out,of course he had to pick his route and travel backed up against the ramp gates on the ferry in case of any problem the lot could be dropped overboard.Once out of Europe he was OK and we heard no more from him until he arrived in the UAE.I was speaking to him on the phone and just asked if everything had gone OK.He said there was not really a problem,but he was driving at night down past Hofuf when he heard something go WHOOSH,thinking it was a low flying plane.He parked up for the night and went to bed.next morning,he rolled out,walked round the trailer to see there was no tilt sheet on!,not a shred to be seen.As he said to me,“I finished the journey open T.I.R.”.No one said anything at the destination and he cleared and tipped with no problems.
Obviously,there must have been some gas leakage and the tilt was full of a combustable mixture,the gas cylinders must have been chafing together to cause a spark and that’s what the WHOOSH was.Think of the uproar if that had happened on the ferry!
Oh happy days.
Talking of Gas leaks, I remember one trip, parked in the Londra, when Deisel ■■■■ was in his cab and he changed over his camping gas bottle to make a cup of tea, but he never opened the window. When he lit the gas, the rest of the old gas bottle had leaked out and his whole cab exploded, the windscreen came flying out and he ended up in the dirt on the floor in front of his truck.
It was so funny, we all fell about laughing. The problem was that his face and hands got a bit burnt, but we reckoned that it was the deisel on his skin that caught fire!!!