I’ve been wondering this a lot. I’ve been working for a food transport company so 95% of it is sat in the cab while being tipped. I’m paid by the day so if I have to take two 45’s even though I’ve been sat for hours on bays it only makes my day longer. Is there really no definitive rule on this? I’ve heard people say that even if you’re sat in the cab doing nothing that you’ll still get done if you’re on break. I’ve never been a fan of “interpretation of the rules” as you can guarantee it’ll come back to bite you on the arse.
smog:
I’ve been wondering this a lot. I’ve been working for a food transport company so 95% of it is sat in the cab while being tipped. I’m paid by the day so if I have to take two 45’s even though I’ve been sat for hours on bays it only makes my day longer. Is there really no definitive rule on this? I’ve heard people say that even if you’re sat in the cab doing nothing that you’ll still get done if you’re on break. I’ve never been a fan of “interpretation of the rules” as you can guarantee it’ll come back to bite you on the arse.
If youre not doing work, youre fine. Why wouldn`t you be?
After all you can be on break sitting in the passenger seat at 56mph. (Assuming someone else is actually driving the thing)
smog:
I’ve been wondering this a lot. I’ve been working for a food transport company so 95% of it is sat in the cab while being tipped. I’m paid by the day so if I have to take two 45’s even though I’ve been sat for hours on bays it only makes my day longer. Is there really no definitive rule on this? I’ve heard people say that even if you’re sat in the cab doing nothing that you’ll still get done if you’re on break. I’ve never been a fan of “interpretation of the rules” as you can guarantee it’ll come back to bite you on the arse.
Yes, there really is a definitive rule. Breaks are defined in the Drivers Hours Regs:
“A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.”
And that’s it. No nonsense about having to be free to wander around, no old guff about having to have access to toilets and/or canteen/hot drinks/Thai massage etc. no stipulation that it must be in a peaceful, darkened room, no requirement for clean, fresh air.
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Roymondo:
smog:
I’ve been wondering this a lot. I’ve been working for a food transport company so 95% of it is sat in the cab while being tipped. I’m paid by the day so if I have to take two 45’s even though I’ve been sat for hours on bays it only makes my day longer. Is there really no definitive rule on this? I’ve heard people say that even if you’re sat in the cab doing nothing that you’ll still get done if you’re on break. I’ve never been a fan of “interpretation of the rules” as you can guarantee it’ll come back to bite you on the arse.Yes, there really is a definitive rule. Breaks are defined in the Drivers Hours Regs:
“A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.”And that’s it. No nonsense about having to be free to wander around, no old guff about having to have access to toilets and/or canteen/hot drinks/Thai massage etc. no stipulation that it must be in a peaceful, darkened room, no requirement for clean, fresh air.
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Well the counter argument is that when the light goes green you should move off the bay, so you aren’t really free to just sit there for another half hour.
smog:
Well the counter argument is that when the light goes green you should move off the bay, so you aren’t really free to just sit there for another half hour.
There is no requirement to be free to stay there. If you’ve been sat there for at least 15 minutes then it counts as a Break. End of.
If you are required to drive or do some other work, then your Break ends at the point that you start driving or working.
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Harry Monk:
As said already, if you are sitting on a bay, on a red light, while someone else trundles into the trailer pulling the pallets off then that’s “break” all day long.When I started out, you used to get the sack if you didn’t do things which were illegal.
Couldn’t help laughing to that…it was more the case weather you took your break while driving, using the tacho on off switch 
It’s the WTD that has caused issues with the job I’m on. If I’ve spent an hour in the yard, driven for 3 hours then tipping takes a couple of hours I’m up to the 6 hour rule so I’ve just got into the habit of arriving at the tip, undoing curtains etc. then stick it on break telling the forkie that I’m off and leaving them to it while I go for a coffee & pee. They’re happy because I’m out of the way, I get a decent break, and I’m within the law as I’m doing what I want to do in that time. Works for me and never had any comeback.
smog:
Well the counter argument is that when the light goes green you should move off the bay, so you aren’t really free to just sit there for another half hour.
There’s nothing wrong with putting it on break for 10 minutes, then the light goes green and you drive off.
Next time you might get a full 15 minutes and it will count as break.
elsa Lad:
Couldn’t help laughing to that…it was more the case weather you took your break while driving, using the tacho on off switch
Yes, there were numerous occasions when I drove 40 miles across France while taking my 45 minute break. 
Harry Monk:
elsa Lad:
Couldn’t help laughing to that…it was more the case weather you took your break while driving, using the tacho on off switchYes, there were numerous occasions when I drove 40 miles across France while taking my 45 minute break.
Amazing how many times the fuse would “accidentally” blow back then 
stu675:
smog:
Well the counter argument is that when the light goes green you should move off the bay, so you aren’t really free to just sit there for another half hour.
There’s nothing wrong with putting it on break for 10 minutes, then the light goes green and you drive off.
Next time you might get a full 15 minutes and it will count as break.
I’m tipping where this guys tipping 
According to one of the trucking magzines I read some time ago they said if you been told that it will take 1 hour to tip your wagon for example you can take a break, if your just sat in the cab and don’t know how long it be before you get unloaded then that is not a break but other work. If I am just sat doing nothing I put the tacho on a break.
If I am forced by law to pull up in a lay by or service area to take a break I am not really free to do what I want with my time.
Harry Monk:
As said already, if you are sitting on a bay, on a red light, while someone else trundles into the trailer pulling the pallets off then that’s “break” all day long.When I started out, you used to get the sack if you didn’t do things which were illegal.
How many log books?
Macski:
According to one of the trucking magzines I read some time ago they said if you been told that it will take 1 hour to tip your wagon for example you can take a break, if your just sat in the cab and don’t know how long it be before you get unloaded then that is not a break but other work. If I am just sat doing nothing I putthe tacho on a break.
If I am forced by law to pull up in a lay by or service area to take a break I am not really free to do what I want with my time.
I think that’s the POA one but I could be wrong as I don’t use it…
Let’s be honest,the parking and facilities are crap,why would anyone be bothered where you take your break,you’ve probably got access to better facilities at Tesco Goole then you have at Doncaster North services,until the establishment sorts the facilities out for us HGV’S I’ll do as I please,as long as I get a cuppa at Greggs somewhere I ain’t bothered much for the little things
njl:
but some drivers are (rightly) steadfast that they choose the time and location of their breaks to suit them.
Why rightly tho when in almost every other job people are told when to have breaks?
Macski:
According to one of the trucking magzines I read some time ago they said if you been told that it will take 1 hour to tip your wagon for example you can take a break, if your just sat in the cab and don’t know how long it be before you get unloaded then that is not a break but other work. If I am just sat doing nothing I put the tacho on a break.If I am forced by law to pull up in a lay by or service area to take a break I am not really free to do what I want with my time.
Confusing breaks and periods of availability. Which frankly are a ridiculous cop out that’s impossible to police anyway. I’d go so far as to say not a single driver has ever been done for not knowing the length of the POA in advance 
Absolute nonsense law.
switchlogic:
njl:
but some drivers are (rightly) steadfast that they choose the time and location of their breaks to suit them.Why rightly tho when in almost every other job people are told when to have breaks?
We have some specific factors in play :
You need somewhere appropriate to stop.
There is a safety element involved with fatigue
Generally speaking we can’t/ shouldn’t have a bathroom break while the vehicle is in motion.
Vis a ve the thread topic a planned destination may or may not also be legal to take a break, I would suggest a good number of planners wouldn’t know the likelihood of that either way compared to the driver.
njl:
switchlogic:
njl:
but some drivers are (rightly) steadfast that they choose the time and location of their breaks to suit them.Why rightly tho when in almost every other job people are told when to have breaks?
We have some specific factors in play :
You need somewhere appropriate to stop.
There is a safety element involved with fatigue
Generally speaking we can’t/ shouldn’t have a bathroom break while the vehicle is in motion.
Vis a ve the thread topic a planned destination may or may not also be legal to take a break, I would suggest a good number of planners wouldn’t know the likelihood of that either way compared to the driver.
What physical location would it be illegal to take a break? The law is about activities rather than locations.
switchlogic:
What physical location would it be illegal to take a break? The law is about activities rather than locations.
The drivers hours regs wouldn’t dictate directly what location is suitable, I agree.
If I understand your angle correctly you are suggesting that to have a defined place / time specified by someone else to take your breaks during a shift would be appropriate. I would say that for a regular set run that might work, but for a dynamic work schedule I can’t see it being practical.
If you were to ask a driver to leave a depot and drive 4 hours then take 45 at a nominated services on route, any delays on the road will eat into his / her remaining drive time with slow traffic or stop start, if the load wasn’t ready 1st thing the 6hr wtd could start to close up also. Sure you might plan a 45 after 3 hours to leave a good cushion but further though the day that will make more likely a second 45 being needed.
More to the point of the thread, getting a break in at a destination, you are at the mercy of the site if they want / need you there long enough to allow for a break, and for that to be legal you would have to be not involved with the process in hand for sufficient time.
I will offer 2 sites I’ve tipped at recently when loaned out on beer.
Site 1 in Dorset, booking time and staffed gatehouse, arrive a little early, 1 ahead of me being tipped, I manage a 15 while waiting. Once on the bay 2 FLT’s tipping me as fast as I can get the straps and curtains moved out of their way, no empties to go back so curtains done up, paperwork signed and I’m done. Next wagon waiting to take my space, so out of the yard, get a 30 in a layby 5 min away.
Site 2 in West London, intercom on barrier, press button until barrier opens, no conversation or pointer where to go next. Park where I can, go into transport office, give them paperwork and my registration. Warned it’s running slow, sit tight in cab, get a 15 in. 3 Hours later get asked to move to the canopy to be tipped, partly thanks to a gracious Downtons driver who told them I was before him when they went to tip him first. 1 FLT, each lift seems to travel some distance from the lorry so its slow, but I’m still moving straps and curtains as he needs them. I have a backload, so no empties on, buckle up and head to the t/o thinking I can get my paperwork. Instead asked to move off the canopy so next wagon gets in, no problem, need to wait for delivery to be checked. This takes a further hour, total on site 5hr15!
In essence the drops were the same, full load 1 drop, one had plenty of opportunity to get breaks in, the other was as efficient as you could hope for, but wanted you gone so they can carry that on for the next wagon. Now, had I had the Dorset experience in West London, I am back out the door but needing to find a location to park up for 30 or 45 min when I may only have limited drive time to play with. If you are there regularly that might be fine if you have some options ready in your mind, but not all of us do and perhaps is when you start to see wagons stopped on entry slip roads or the like.
Macski:
If I am forced by law to pull up in a lay by or service area to take a break I am not really free to do what I want with my time.
There’s no requirement for you to be able to do whatever you want with your time on a 45 minute break. Otherwise you’d be able to play an 18 hole round of golf with your mates, go for a ride on a preserved railway or get bladdered down the pub if you wanted to. That’s the weekly rest period you’re thinking of.