■■■■■■■ 
tartanraider:
Pat, yes, maybe I’m in the wrong job, but then driving isn’t my main job. My main job pays me more money than I need (although don’t tell my boss that), and the money I get from driving is nice, but given that it makes up about 1% of my annual income, the extra £10-20 here and there makes very little difference.
Well lucky old you ,don’t need the money,but I’ll bet the guys you work with DO!If your conscience troubles you so much why don’t you just [zb] off back to your main job you [zb]!
tartanraider:
Well lucky old you ,don’t need the money,but I’ll bet the guys you work with DO!If your conscience troubles you so much why don’t you just [zb] off back to your main job you [zb]!
Well said 
Let someone who needs the money do the job, if it’s just a hobby or something extra leave the pay of those who really need a job do what they want. I said it would make you unpopular, in fact it will make you hated by some, maybe we could contact your high paying boss and let him know you are earning too much
the problem is when you go to a new job you dont know how long it takes…if jobs are timed job a =8 job b= 10 etc maybe the first quistion you should ask how long does the regular driver take
we used to do a run to our then depot in south wales .if two runs were to be done we were sent at different times times so we wouldnt waste time drinking tea in laybys …we discussed this in the yard once how long should yhe job take …legal driving time + 15 mins tea break + tipping time + 30 mins (lunch ?) +legal driving time + 15 mins tea break (optional) so it was 2.75 hours down 2.75 back + 1 hour + tipping + 15 min vechile check = a days work
why the t breaks because the lads in the yard stopped for t so we should too…the day was 7.5 hours if we did a local we were paid o/t for the extra time spent …we could and we did sometimes just do a flyer straight down tip 10 mins park up butty van straight back less than job time paid for day …but we all knew the score the job took a “day” sometimes less sometimes more …once on agency worked for Peugeot on factory feeder run…some runs were classed as paid break cos of timing to Ryton which one TM paid me for and another didnt because i wasnt one of theres…(the job was a long t break so the odd hour didnt matter as it was luck as to which run you got)
Be honest to yourself calculate a reasonable time t break included and go with that…
It’s tricky if you’re in convoy and they’re speeding, cuz you just get dragged along…
Best thing would be to get the delivery address yourself and then make an excuse to get summut out of your car or goto the loo, just before you set off, saying you’ll catch them up…
Pat… Whilst I fully agree with what you’re saying, if an agency driver gets into a new truck with an unknown route on a Monday morning, how are they supposed to know that an extra 2hr break is required just to match your hours…■■? They can only do what they do… aslong as they don’t speed…
Personally I stick to all limits and take just slightly longer breaks if I feel it’s necassary… I stopped for 1:20 the other day on a 45 min break and felt guilty… !!!
Maybe I’m just not familiar with the ‘trends’ yet… ■■?
Luv
Chrisie… 
So, what should I do? I don’t want to be a whistleblower and spoil their cozy arrangement, since I don’t really care what they do (and let’s face it, if I did, I wouldn’t really want to be working there again), but I’d rather not be doing it myself. If I submit correct timesheets, people might smell a rat (“why is the agency guy doing it in 2 hours less than all the others?”).
Opinions?
mainly mate because us agency blokes are a lot more motivated and better at it than they are oh and we dont rip people off, i’ve seen it done too.
cheers
gearjammer
gearjammer:
So, what should I do? I don’t want to be a whistleblower and spoil their cozy arrangement, since I don’t really care what they do (and let’s face it, if I did, I wouldn’t really want to be working there again), but I’d rather not be doing it myself. If I submit correct timesheets, people might smell a rat (“why is the agency guy doing it in 2 hours less than all the others?”).
Opinions?
mainly mate because us agency blokes are a lot more motivated and better at it than they are
cheers
gearjammer
speak for yourself gearjammer i’ll drag a job out as much as i can now im on the agency and hourly paid
I wouldnt worry about the hours, it aint a perfect world anyway is it? and a few hours pay here and there isnt a big deal, besides, a lot of these firms dont care anyway, they aint daft, if it bothered them, they’ll sort it no worries. And what I do if theres a convoy, I go on me own, better yet if you get lost eh! 
tartanraider:
tartanraider:
Pat, yes, maybe I’m in the wrong job, but then driving isn’t my main job. My main job pays me more money than I need (although don’t tell my boss thatWell lucky old you ,don’t need the money,but I’ll bet the guys you work with DO!If your conscience troubles you so much why don’t you just [zb] off back to your main job you [zb]!
Well, what a great encouragement you are for people thinking of changing career. I guess I should have expected a dismissive facetious remark from you. 
Like I said, I’m trying to do this fairly in both ways - not messing around with the current drivers, but not breaking the law myself.
For all the people on here who are always complaining about being screwed by their employers, very few people seem to be worried when it happens in their favour.
Pat Hasler:
Well said
So I’m not allowed to do any driving work unless I go along with the rampant fraud? Do you guys have connections in Sicily?
And I’ve been careful not to post sufficient details for you to contact my boss. So there. 
In fact, I earn less (annually) than one of the main ‘ringleaders’ of this fraud. However, I work less hours. If I wanted to cause trouble, I would have reported it (along with other illegal activity I’ve seen), but I haven’t. The reason for posting this was to try to work out a way of avoiding getting caught up myself without rocking the boat. The driving community could do with lots more helpful, inclusive people like you… 
a company i used to work for did night trunk work up to carnforth.
one left at 18.00 the over left at 20.00,and do you no what they both clocked off at the same time.
no body ever questioned it or nothing ,i mean how do you drag out a trailer swop from burton to carnforth for 11 hours .
it used to take 45 mins to check the wagon over 3 1/2 up there 1 hour trailer swop back down the m61 to bolton services ,1 hour break then ack to burton and spend a hour in the yard washing down.
we had 1 bloke that could do it in 7.5 hours 
don’t worry about it mr fibble
jon
MrFlibble:
tartanraider:
tartanraider:
Pat, yes, maybe I’m in the wrong job, but then driving isn’t my main job. My main job pays me more money than I need (although don’t tell my boss thatWell lucky old you ,don’t need the money,but I’ll bet the guys you work with DO!If your conscience troubles you so much why don’t you just [zb] off back to your main job you [zb]!
Well, what a great encouragement you are for people thinking of changing career. I guess I should have expected a dismissive facetious remark from you.
Like I said, I’m trying to do this fairly in both ways - not messing around with the current drivers, but not breaking the law myself.
For all the people on here who are always complaining about being screwed by their employers, very few people seem to be worried when it happens in their favour.
It’s precisely because we’ve been screwed so often by the bosses that when we get a chance to screw them we take it.When you’ve been doing the job for a few years and not earning so much ■■■■■■■ money you might change your tune
tartanraider:
MrFlibble:
tartanraider:
tartanraider:
Pat, yes, maybe I’m in the wrong job, but then driving isn’t my main job. My main job pays me more money than I need (although don’t tell my boss thatWell lucky old you ,don’t need the money,but I’ll bet the guys you work with DO!If your conscience troubles you so much why don’t you just [zb] off back to your main job you [zb]!
Well, what a great encouragement you are for people thinking of changing career. I guess I should have expected a dismissive facetious remark from you.
Like I said, I’m trying to do this fairly in both ways - not messing around with the current drivers, but not breaking the law myself.
For all the people on here who are always complaining about being screwed by their employers, very few people seem to be worried when it happens in their favour.
It’s precisely because we’ve been screwed so often by the bosses that when we get a chance to screw them we take it.When you’ve been doing the job for a few years and not earning so much [zb] money you might change your tune
Good point well made TR Summed it up in one.
Maybe McFlibble needs a class 1 job with PMP Logistics on containers. £285/week basic for 75+ hours, mileage bonus after 450 kms. See how guilty he feels then about ‘screwing the company over’ 
Cheers.
tartanraider:
It’s precisely because we’ve been screwed so often by the bosses that when we get a chance to screw them we take it.
And so the spiral descends.
Unfortunately, in this case, its the driver who is on the wrong side of the law, and if it gets nasty, they’re the ones who get it.
Think it won’t happen? How about this scenario:
VOSA comes to inspect your employer (for whatever reason - maybe a driver got caught over hours). As they’re checking things over, they casually mention that the tachos and timesheets don’t seem to match up, and they ask the boss why every driver seems to be clocking off two hours after they apparently stopped working. Suddenly the big boss realises what’s been going on, and decides to launch disciplinary action.
Or maybe I go along with it, and submit a false timesheet every time, but unknown to me, the management changes, and next time, I do a run on my own, submit a false timesheet, and get caught. Just to save the asses of the existing drivers who don’t get caught because they’re working there more regularly than me.
tartanraider:
When you’ve been doing the job for a few years and not earning so much [zb] money you might change your tune
Yet again, the usual “I’ve been doing this longer than you so I know better” mantra. Yawn. Perhaps I’m just too naive in thinking that being a “professional” involves some level of ethical standards.
Like I said, I’m paid less than some of the drivers doing this. My employer doesn’t exactly pay that well in comparison to the market rate for that job (which is the reason for the earlier comment). But, beyond being able to pay for my house and the bills, that’s all that I really need to survive, so yes, I don’t actually need the money. It’s useful, but I won’t go bankrupt without it. And I’d rather not be pressganged into breaking the law to get it whether I want it or not.
MrFlibble:
Since RobK is whinging about people not posting…). So, what should I do? I don’t want to be a whistleblower and spoil their cozy arrangement, since I don’t really care what they do (and let’s face it, if I did, I wouldn’t really want to be working there again), but I’d rather not be doing it myself. If I submit correct timesheets, people might smell a rat (“why is the agency guy doing it in 2 hours less than all the others?”).
Opinions?
So why put this post up if you Dont want opinions really? And you already know your frame of mind
I used to work for a firm in Warrington Some nights all I had was one drop in Doncaster. I said to the TM what do you want me to do till clocking off time. She said pull onto Hartshead Moor and fill in time till quiting timeZZZZZZZZZ
It’s been a good thread with some interesting opinions (as usual) but it would appear that ‘Risky’ is on his own on this one I’m afraid.
I think that ‘Risky’ is an appropriate nickname for McFlibble as he spends wayyyyyyyyy too much time worrying about the consequences of the tiniest of errors so there’s no way he’ll ever be a risk-taker hence I judge the new nickname perfect
Get to work Neil (I believe it was you I have to blame for the appearance of mine iirc) and do the chap proud
Cheers.
It wasn’t me that did yours Rob, I am only guilty of Margate’s and Kate’s as far as I remember. 
Bones:
MrFlibble:
Since RobK is whinging about people not posting…). So, what should I do? I don’t want to be a whistleblower and spoil their cozy arrangement, since I don’t really care what they do (and let’s face it, if I did, I wouldn’t really want to be working there again), but I’d rather not be doing it myself. If I submit correct timesheets, people might smell a rat (“why is the agency guy doing it in 2 hours less than all the others?”).
Opinions?
So why put this post up if you Dont want opinions really? And you already know your frame of mind
Since
a) I’m looking for a way to avoid doing it myself without dropping the other drivers in the [zb], and wondered if anyone had any opinions on how to do it
and
b) I wanted to find out how common it is.
Fair enough