Time for another Scottish Referendum?

[dolph]

Carryfast:

Dolph:
That ought to be fun, Scots vs English, let me get popcorn, that’s even better then UK vs EU debate.
Whats next - clashes/civil war in Northern Ireland for its break up - independence - unification with Eire?
Wells anyone?

In the end England is independent country, out of EU and UK. Scotland, NI and Wells form the new UK of Scotland, Wells and Norther Ireland member of EU. And every Englishman will need visa to enter any of the states above, including mainland EU. Now that’s gonna be hilarious

Firstly it’s obvious that the UK can’t survive in an environment in which England goes for independence and decides to dump it .

As for a visa being required to travel to the EU we didn’t need a visa before 1973 so why now assuming we leave ?.

While assuming a breakup of the UK where’s the difference between that and the agreement between Norway and Sweden since October 1905 or the Irish Republic and the UK since December 1921 ?.

Well isn’t that what nationalists like you CF want, independent England?
Again, as I have told you several times it is not 1970’s anymore. If you are out of EU, you may need tourist visa like Turkish citizens need or you may not and have 90 days visa free travel like American, Canadians etc. Its up to EU to decide. Please note, that’s only for tourism travel. If you want to work or live you will need work visa or investor visa etc. Ask any American for example how long it takes to get British work visa. Or how easy is to obtain Schengen visa.
Can you imagine England being subject to visa rules across EU, including Bulgaria and Romania, rules like this:
bulgarianembassy-london.org/ … Itemid=164
you will become laughing stock of the world. From one of the leading nations to who knows what. Leaving EU, leaving UK union, that’s sounds like self destruction and its obvious that is not going to happen. I don’t believe majority of British people to be so dumb like some crazy ultra nationalist UKIP type. Thats why we so UKIP results in the summer to be a joke as well.

[carryfast]

Dolph:

Carryfast:

Dolph:
That ought to be fun, Scots vs English, let me get popcorn, that’s even better then UK vs EU debate.
Whats next - clashes/civil war in Northern Ireland for its break up - independence - unification with Eire?
Wells anyone?

In the end England is independent country, out of EU and UK. Scotland, NI and Wells form the new UK of Scotland, Wells and Norther Ireland member of EU. And every Englishman will need visa to enter any of the states above, including mainland EU. Now that’s gonna be hilarious

Firstly it’s obvious that the UK can’t survive in an environment in which England goes for independence and decides to dump it .

As for a visa being required to travel to the EU we didn’t need a visa before 1973 so why now assuming we leave ?.

While assuming a breakup of the UK where’s the difference between that and the agreement between Norway and Sweden since October 1905 or the Irish Republic and the UK since December 1921 ?.

Well isn’t that what nationalists like you CF want, independent England?
Again, as I have told you several times it is not 1970’s anymore. If you are out of EU, you may need tourist visa like Turkish citizens need or you may not and have 90 days visa free travel like American, Canadians etc. Its up to EU to decide. Please note, that’s only for tourism travel. If you want to work or live you will need work visa or investor visa etc. Ask any American for example how long it takes to get British work visa. Or how easy is to obtain Schengen visa.
Can you imagine England being subject to visa rules across EU, including Bulgaria and Romania, rules like this:
bulgarianembassy-london.org/ … Itemid=164
you will become laughing stock of the world. From one of the leading nations to who knows what. Leaving EU, leaving UK union, that’s sounds like self destruction and its obvious that is not going to happen. I don’t believe majority of British people to be so dumb like some crazy ultra nationalist UKIP type. Thats why we so UKIP results in the summer to be a joke as well.

Define ‘crazy’ ‘ultra’ nationalist v just ordinary nationalist.

While it’s clear from the inference of sanctions,against anyone expressing the right of self determination,contained in your ideas,that it’s the crazy ultra Federalists who we need to be worried about.

[dolph]

Carryfast:

Dolph:

Carryfast:

Dolph:
That ought to be fun, Scots vs English, let me get popcorn, that’s even better then UK vs EU debate.
Whats next - clashes/civil war in Northern Ireland for its break up - independence - unification with Eire?
Wells anyone?

In the end England is independent country, out of EU and UK. Scotland, NI and Wells form the new UK of Scotland, Wells and Norther Ireland member of EU. And every Englishman will need visa to enter any of the states above, including mainland EU. Now that’s gonna be hilarious

Firstly it’s obvious that the UK can’t survive in an environment in which England goes for independence and decides to dump it .

As for a visa being required to travel to the EU we didn’t need a visa before 1973 so why now assuming we leave ?.

While assuming a breakup of the UK where’s the difference between that and the agreement between Norway and Sweden since October 1905 or the Irish Republic and the UK since December 1921 ?.

Well isn’t that what nationalists like you CF want, independent England?
Again, as I have told you several times it is not 1970’s anymore. If you are out of EU, you may need tourist visa like Turkish citizens need or you may not and have 90 days visa free travel like American, Canadians etc. Its up to EU to decide. Please note, that’s only for tourism travel. If you want to work or live you will need work visa or investor visa etc. Ask any American for example how long it takes to get British work visa. Or how easy is to obtain Schengen visa.
Can you imagine England being subject to visa rules across EU, including Bulgaria and Romania, rules like this:
bulgarianembassy-london.org/ … Itemid=164
you will become laughing stock of the world. From one of the leading nations to who knows what. Leaving EU, leaving UK union, that’s sounds like self destruction and its obvious that is not going to happen. I don’t believe majority of British people to be so dumb like some crazy ultra nationalist UKIP type. Thats why we so UKIP results in the summer to be a joke as well.

Define ‘crazy’ ‘ultra’ nationalist v just ordinary nationalist.

While it’s clear from the inference of sanctions,against anyone expressing the right of self determination,contained in your ideas,that it’s the crazy ultra Federalists who we need to be worried about.

People who not only want UK out of EU, but they want Scotland and/or Wells out of UK as well. If Im not mistaken Scotland and England are in a union for 300 years.
This is crazy and ultra nationalistic in my view, you are one country(union) for 3/three/ centuries and some of you want to split…

[carryfast]

Dolph:
Define ‘crazy’ ‘ultra’ nationalist v just ordinary nationalist.

While it’s clear from the inference of sanctions,against anyone expressing the right of self determination,contained in your ideas,that it’s the crazy ultra Federalists who we need to be worried about.

People who not only want UK out of EU, but they want Scotland and/or Wells out of UK as well. If Im not mistaken Scotland and England are in a union for 300 years.
This is crazy and ultra nationalistic in my view, you are one country(union) for 3/three/ centuries and some of you want to split…
[/quote]
Absolutely.It’s called local democracy and democratic accountability among other financial arrangement ‘disagreements’.

While the fact is it’s a bit more complicated than the typically deluded simplistic federalist idea of saying we’ve been a happy Union brought together by choice.On that note you’re obviously conveniently over looking first the Franco Norman take over of England which effectively wiped out the English identity and everything which took place since regarding the ( justified ) continuing calls for and historic wars of secession,regarding the forced Federalisation of the rest of the British Isles.

On that note people like King Harold,William Wallace,Robert the Bruce and later Michael Collins certainly didn’t fit the description of crazy.Unlike the crazy Federalists like William the Conqueror and his Plantagenet successors among others who’ve caused loads of suffering in their Federalist crusade to impose the foreign Franco/Norman etc bs UK Union on us all.As expected of a dictatorial undemocratic type of government that despises the idea of self determination and which usually/always resorts to force to get its way.

[lightforce]

Tris, you really are a full on fanny!

[boredwivdrivin]

the english deserve a referendum on UK BEFORE the EU referendum .

we can assume that parts of UK ( scotland gibraltar NI ) are going to vote to remain in EU madness . we can not allow the tail to wag the dog anymore !.

if we lose the EU vote because of daft scots i forecast civil war .

and altho CF is scared of the crankies dude , i remind him of a far scarier scottish politician ; who despite never having won a vote as even a parish councillor in England , was able to wage a war of destruction against the english for over a decade :

during 10 years as chancellor this monumental pillock engineered the biggest banking crash since the south sea bubble …

made our tax laws so complicated the rich could avoid any tax …

refused to equip our forces with the tools they needed to fight Bliars wars …

caused an unprecedented housing cost boom …

sold all our gold reserves at their lowest value in 50 years …

subsidised big business profits ,enforced worker poverty and bankrupted the country with tax credits …

continued paying corrupt EU even tho they hadnt got theirs books past the auditors in a decade …

insisted on opening the flood gates to uncontrolled immigration to reduce wage demand and therefore control inflation …

expanded john majors PFI scheme to fund schools and hospitals on the never never …

increased national debt during ‘boom’ years …

bailed out the bust banks with our cash after abolishing their regulation …

failed to invest in our infrastructure …

insisted M6 toll was funded by private money as an investment , thus condemning it to remaining a toll road and not a functioning relief motorway …

gave scotland a parliament but left england paying the bill …

insisted on spending more than 0.7% GDP on overseas aid …

not content with that sorry tale , he then embarked on nearly 3 years as a totally unelected PM …

signing , despite never even being elected as a lollipop lady in england , the hugely damaging lisbon treaty , which sowed the seeds for the terrible situation we find our selves in today .

this alone is a gordon brown horror story sufficient to convince any sensible englishman than being ruled by scotland is not a viable situation …

it is absolutely vital that england gains her independence from UK and EU

and can then negotiate future relationships from a democratically accountable position of strength

[boredwivdrivin]

Dolph:
In the end England is independent country, out of EU and UK. Scotland, NI and Wells form the new UK of Scotland, Wells and Norther Ireland member of EU. And every Englishman will need visa to enter any of the states above, including mainland EU. Now that’s gonna be hilarious

Wells is Englands smallest city in Somerset .

Wales is a beautiful proud and surprisingly eurosceptic country , on the western side of England . Also known as Cymru in Welsh . I have no objection to Wales remaining in union with England , should they so wish .

and i will be more than happy to need a visa to visit scotland or europe as requirements will be reciprocal .

[peterm]

From far far away in Oz and in my ■■■■■■ state, I agree with the second post above. Just need a PM with balls.

[alamcculloch]

The last ballsy P.M. that we had was called Margaret.

[bazza123]

I do wonder how poor old Scotland would cope having split off from the UK?

Oil prices have tumbled, shipbuilding would be finished with no warship building taking place post independence. Scotland’s fishing fleet is tied in knots literally by stupid EU fishing quotas.

One of the biggest things is the support that the state provides to Scottish people, including

Free prescriptions
Free eye tests
Free elderly care (a massive expense)
Two free ferry trips for island residents a year
Over 60’s able to travel on a bus at ANY time free
No tuition fees - more huge expense

I don’t understand how Scots could afford all these without UK’s support??

Whiskey and Tourism seem their only other reliable income sources… But can all that free stuff still be maintained?

As an Englishman I’m rightly aggrieved that I’m not entitled to those things.

There was also quite a lot of nasty anti English sentiment from some Scots during the previous referendum - this wasn’t discouraged IMHO from Salmond and his deputy either.

If Scots want independence let them have it - I’m sure ship yard workers south of the border won’t complain.

This isn’t a jingoistic post - I’m just tired of this issue dragging on

[boredwivdrivin]

A very thoughtful and sensible post bazza .

But 1 thing , it was the Scots who voted to remain as a pampered party in the UK .

You and I werent asked !

I think everyone knows if english are asked whether they they want to remain sugar daddies to scotch or irish the answer will be emphatic

NO !

[raymundo]

After doing a wee bit of financial digging I’ve managed to work out approximately how much of Scotland’s taxes are actually given back to the Scottish Government as our block grant.
After seeing the figures from the early part of the 20th century, where between 40% and 75% of scots tax money was spent in England or Wales, I was curious to discover just why Westminster is so unwilling to tell us just how much of OUR money is spent on other people and in other parts of the UK.
So, it seems we take about £40 billion in taxes and duties, including modest oil revenues.
The block grant last year, was £28 billion. So that means about 30% of our taxes never come back to Scotland!
Considering we make up only 9% of the population, we pay three times more per head than we should. Effectively our taxes are TAXED at 30%!
Figures were obtained from the IFS and OBR and were for the 2014 period. I have reduced the oil revenue due to lower oil prices.

[the-snowman]

raymundo:
After doing a wee bit of financial digging I’ve managed to work out approximately how much of Scotland’s taxes are actually given back to the Scottish Government as our block grant.
After seeing the figures from the early part of the 20th century, where between 40% and 75% of scots tax money was spent in England or Wales, I was curious to discover just why Westminster is so unwilling to tell us just how much of OUR money is spent on other people and in other parts of the UK.
So, it seems we take about £40 billion in taxes and duties, including modest oil revenues.
The block grant last year, was £28 billion. So that means about 30% of our taxes never come back to Scotland!
Considering we make up only 9% of the population, we pay three times more per head than we should. Effectively our taxes are TAXED at 30%!
Figures were obtained from the IFS and OBR and were for the 2014 period. I have reduced the oil revenue due to lower oil prices.

It would explain why Cameron and Co were so desperate for Scotland to remain in the UK,deploying their scare tactics and issuing the scare stories, and its why England will never get a vote to depart from Scotland because there are too many people who cant see the wood for the trees and would vote to leave. The government know full well England cant survive without the rest of us but some people are so small minded and arrogant they think England rules the roost. Only a few hundred thousand more voted to stay in the UK andI put that down to Camerons scare stories in the two weeks leading up to the vote frightening people that it was bad and it was “better together”.
But im willing to bet what you’ve put here will STILL be ignored by some who will instead come up with all sorts of made up guff to say its wrong. Despite it being the truth. I remember reading years ago that London alone was mre heavily subsidised than Scotland as a whole. Yet STILL you get the usual “we are sick of supporting Scotland” mince. Usually from people who THINK they know what they are talking about but actually dont

[boredwivdrivin]

raymundo , think you are going wrong by describing oil income as scottish income .

personally i would like Scotland to keep all this revenue in return for leaving UK and stopping interfering in English matters .

i realise the SnowGranny is unable to distinguish between Scotland/England/Wales/NI as individual countries and Britain and the UK as a mishmash federation . He also is ignorant that all 4 main English parties are UK Unionist and their reason to exist is to maintain UK Status Quo . there simply is no English nationalist party , and there is no English Parliament . its about time there was .

BUT , in answer to your financial query …

what you need to consider is the Barnett Formula which provides 120% /capita spending compared to England . Wales and NI receive more than England too , but less than Scotland .

devolutionmatters.wordpress.com … evolution/

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … works.html

happy reading

[raymundo]

raymundo , think you are going wrong by describing oil income as scottish income .

Who would you describe as being the rightful owner of the massive oil reserves (that Cameron said didn’t exist when he paid a surprise visit to Lerwick) to the west of the Shetlands then ? would you consider it belongs to Norway as it’s nearer to there than London !

[carryfast]

raymundo:
Who would you describe as being the rightful owner of the massive oil reserves (that Cameron said didn’t exist when he paid a surprise visit to Lerwick) to the west of the Shetlands then ? would you consider it belongs to Norway as it’s nearer to there than London !

Unlike OPEC countries like Saudi the ‘rightful owner’ will be the large multi national oil companies who hold the licences provided by the government in exchange for whatever cash return from its sale on the world markets is agreed.All based on the same bs idea that its better to turn useful oil into worthless cash than burn it ourselves.

On that note a good luck with being ruled by a pro EU Federalist Nationalist Party.That wants to base its economic policy on worthless paper oil revenues to pay for cheap Chinese imports.While at the same time calling for a halt to fossil fuel use.Just like Cameron and the rest.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s … s-35087241

[boredwivdrivin]

raymundo:

bwd:
raymundo , think you are going wrong by describing oil income as scottish income .

Who would you describe as being the rightful owner of the massive oil reserves … to the west of the Shetlands then ? would you consider it belongs to Norway as it’s nearer to there than London !

i described the scottish as the appropriate owners .

bwd:
personally i would like Scotland to keep all this revenue in return for leaving UK and stopping interfering in English matters .

but only when independant . at the moment whilst we still suffer being in UK it it UK income , and as such is irrelevant to your above calculations , and gave you false figures