hello wondered if anyone could answer my question. currently work a 56 hour shift pattern 6 days and 4 days off … I have recently got my HGV Class C and would like to drive part time in my four days off… is it possible or do would i drive illegally going over the 90 hour fortnight working hours or is there some other way of getting the experience ?
thanks
martin
the 90 hour is part of the eu regs for driving time in any 2 consecutive weeks and 56 in a week (fixed weeks)
the working time directive has a 60 hours a week limit which doesn’t include poa and break, only driving and other work count, using the same criteria your average over the companies reference period (usually 17 weeks if they’re bothered to have one!) must not be over 48 hours
Martinsea:
hello wondered if anyone could answer my question. currently work a 56 hour shift pattern 6 days and 4 days off … I have recently got my HGV Class C and would like to drive part time in my four days off… is it possible or do would i drive illegally going over the 90 hour fortnight working hours or is there some other way of getting the experience ?
thanks
martin
You are getting various laws mixed up
90 hour a fortnight is the max driving time under EU regs - nowt to do with working time regs
you need official records for every day worked in the normal job if you drove under EU regs in a fixed week (week)
Each one of those records must have your name date start and finish time on it - each can be binned after 29 calendar days
Using separate analogue cards or digi printout paper is the easiest way
The normal job is under WTD and the EU driving is under RT(WT)R - I have never seen anything which says the two must be added together under the RT(WT)R - the normal WTD can be opted out of in full
What you are going to have to watch out for is the max 144 hour rule between weekly rests and taking a regular 45 weekly rest for every other week
You would only be able to work two of your days off. But as long as your work does not exceed 60hrs (or 48 average) and your driving not over the 56 (or whatever the limit is based on your previous weeks driving) then you can do what you like.
I use mydrivinghours.co.uk and this keeps me right with all averages and driving time etc.
ROG:
the normal WTD can be opted out of in full
Is there not still a limit for it though,even if you sign the opt out form?
The-Snowman:
ROG:
the normal WTD can be opted out of in fullIs there not still a limit for it though,even if you sign the opt out form?
Not for the normal WTD - it can be opted out of in its entirety
It seems its only companies and not authorities that bother with the RT(WT)R
The UK had to adopt this in order to prevent being fined by the EU but there is no stipulation that they MUST enforce it but be seen to have systems in place should they want to - in other words it a load of hogwash
The-Snowman:
You would only be able to work two of your days off. But as long as your work does not exceed 60hrs (or 48 average) and your driving not over the 56 (or whatever the limit is based on your previous weeks driving) then you can do what you like.
I use mydrivinghours.co.uk and this keeps me right with all averages and driving time etc.
My work includes driving a car most of my shifts sometime i don’t drive and I’m the passenger… its just that i got an offer of a job working part time but HR got involved and said that I could not drive due to working 56 hours shift on my 6 days on and the 4 days off I would not be able to work part time for them… which I personally think is a load of rubbish as I would have had plenty of rest on my first two days off… all very confusing
cheers
martin
ROG:
Martinsea:
hello wondered if anyone could answer my question. currently work a 56 hour shift pattern 6 days and 4 days off … I have recently got my HGV Class C and would like to drive part time in my four days off… is it possible or do would i drive illegally going over the 90 hour fortnight working hours or is there some other way of getting the experience ?
thanks
martinYou are getting various laws mixed up
90 hour a fortnight is the max driving time under EU regs - nowt to do with working time regs
you need official records for every day worked in the normal job if you drove under EU regs in a fixed week (week)
Each one of those records must have your name date start and finish time on it - each can be binned after 29 calendar days
Using separate analogue cards or digi printout paper is the easiest wayThe normal job is under WTD and the EU driving is under RT(WT)R - I have never seen anything which says the two must be added together under the RT(WT)R - the normal WTD can be opted out of in full
What you are going to have to watch out for is the max 144 hour rule between weekly rests and taking a regular 45 weekly rest for every other week
I meant EU regs sorry
Driving a car is other work and under the normal WTD if done in your non EU regs job
Perhaps if you tell us exactly what you want to do in the way of an example it might help …
Mon 9am to 5 pm normal job
Tue as above
Wed as above
Thu as above
Fri as above
Sat as above
Sun off
Mon 6am to 7pm EU driving
Tue off
Wed off
etc etc
ROG:
Martinsea:
hello wondered if anyone could answer my question. currently work a 56 hour shift pattern 6 days and 4 days off … I have recently got my HGV Class C and would like to drive part time in my four days off… is it possible or do would i drive illegally going over the 90 hour fortnight working hours or is there some other way of getting the experience ?
thanks
martinYou are getting various laws mixed up
90 hour a fortnight is the max driving time under EU regs - nowt to do with working time regs
you need official records for every day worked in the normal job if you drove under EU regs in a fixed week (week)
Each one of those records must have your name date start and finish time on it - each can be binned after 29 calendar days
Using separate analogue cards or digi printout paper is the easiest wayThe normal job is under WTD and the EU driving is under RT(WT)R - I have never seen anything which says the two must be added together under the RT(WT)R - the normal WTD can be opted out of in full
What you are going to have to watch out for is the max 144 hour rule between weekly rests and taking a regular 45 weekly rest for every other week
wouldn’t you come completely under the RT(WT)R once you’ve used up your occasional mobile worker allowed days, for that reference period anyway?
if your reference period is shorter than 26 week you’re allowed to work 10 days per reference period and not come under the RT(WT)R
26 and over and it’s 15 days in a reference period
I cannot find where it says that other work done under the normal WTD which has been opted out of completely counts for the RT(WT)R (not the EU tacho regs) - but I am open to be convinced …
ROG:
you need official records for every day worked in the normal job if you drove under EU regs in a fixed week (week)
Each one of those records must have your name date start and finish time on it - each can be binned after 29 calendar days
Using separate analogue cards or digi printout paper is the easiest way
Is it permissible to use a simple spreadsheet with each day’s hours on and signed or are they expecting something on ‘official’ paper ?
Some weeks I help out at another firm , nothing driving consulting work so thought a simple spreadsheet showing these hours would be ok now not so sure! I may drive one day during this week
i’ve got this, but can’t find an equivalent from a gov site
transportsfriend.org/pdf_fil … idance.pdf
1.3 Occasional mobile workers
The Regulations are primarily for the benefit of the drivers and crew of vehicles
participating in road transport activities under the European drivers’ hours rules.
Drivers and crew who only occasionally participate in such activities are exempt from
the Regulations. However, the requirements of the European drivers’ hours rules
continue to apply, as do the requirements of the 1998 Regulations.
A mobile worker would qualify for this exemption if:
they work 10 days or less within scope of the European drivers’ hours rules in
a reference period that is shorter than 26 weeks;
they work 15 days or less within scope of the European drivers’ hours rules in
a reference period that is 26 weeks or longer. [2]
In terms of what constitutes a day for the purpose of this calculation, the Department’s
view is that, in this context, a “day” means a rolling 24 hour period (starting with the
commencement of in-scope work). This applies regardless of the amount of work
done within the course of the day. So for example, if two separate 5 hour shifts of inscope
work occurred within the rolling 24 hour period that would only count as doing
work on one day. No other calculations would be required during this period, and the
next 24 hour calculation would start at commencement of the next period of in-scope
work. Where a period of driving overlaps two 24 hour periods the second calculation
would start immediately at the end of day 1. However, this is only the Department’s
opinion, and ultimately, interpretation of the law remains a matter for the Courts.
Employers of occasional mobile workers may arrange individual reference periods (if
a relevant agreement is in place), or use the company default reference periods -
remembering, of course, that if a worker happens to exceed the above limits then they
will be considered a “mobile worker” for the purposes of the Regulations, and any calculation of working time will be retrospective (i.e. include all hours worked from
the start of the reference period).
edit to add the last bit that the copy and paste didn’t get!
The-Snowman:
You would only be able to work two of your days off. But as long as your work does not exceed 60hrs (or 48 average) and your driving not over the 56 (or whatever the limit is based on your previous weeks driving) then you can do what you like.
I use mydrivinghours.co.uk and this keeps me right with all averages and driving time etc.
I think you may be mistaken for the following reasons.
1 - With 6 consecutive days on shift in his primary job the day before and after each block of shifts has to be rest (144 hours maximum between weekly rest periods).
2 - The requirement to have 45 hours uninterrupted rest every other week leaves only 1 day available to do other work in those weeks when a full weekly rest is needed.
3 - His employer has already said that they don’t want him working another job and, depending on the terms of his contract, may well find himself facing a disciplinary for breach of contract. There may well be an argument about whether that is a fair contract but as the OP is working it I would contend that he has accepted those terms.
dcgpx:
ROG:
you need official records for every day worked in the normal job if you drove under EU regs in a fixed week (week)
Each one of those records must have your name date start and finish time on it - each can be binned after 29 calendar days
Using separate analogue cards or digi printout paper is the easiest wayIs it permissible to use a simple spreadsheet with each day’s hours on and signed or are they expecting something on ‘official’ paper ?
Some weeks I help out at another firm , nothing driving consulting work so thought a simple spreadsheet showing these hours would be ok now not so sure! I may drive one day during this week
The rule state what is permissible - diary and spread sheets are not in that list but often DVSA in UK might accept such
Wiretwister:
The-Snowman:
You would only be able to work two of your days off. But as long as your work does not exceed 60hrs (or 48 average) and your driving not over the 56 (or whatever the limit is based on your previous weeks driving) then you can do what you like.
I use mydrivinghours.co.uk and this keeps me right with all averages and driving time etc.I think you may be mistaken for the following reasons.
1 - With 6 consecutive days on shift in his primary job the day before and after each block of shifts has to be rest (144 hours maximum between weekly rest periods).
2 - The requirement to have 45 hours uninterrupted rest every other week leaves only 1 day available to do other work in those weeks when a full weekly rest is needed.
3 - His employer has already said that they don’t want him working another job and, depending on the terms of his contract, may well find himself facing a disciplinary for breach of contract. There may well be an argument about whether that is a fair contract but as the OP is working it I would contend that he has accepted those terms.
Not sure what you mean by points 1 and 2 but I think you might be right. I assumed he would have his 45 hrs but wasn’t thinking about week 3
Point three pretty much makes it all redundant anyway
This is an interesting thread and thanks for you input.
My shifts are as follow
6am to 1600 pm x 2
1400 to midnight x 2
Midnight to 6am x2
Then four days off the the cycle starts again
Cheers
Martin
Martinsea:
My shifts are as follow
6am to 1600 pm x 2
1400 to midnight x 2
Midnight to 6am x2
Then four days off the the cycle starts again
So you start at 6am on day 1 and finish the 6 shifts at 6am on day 7 = 144 hours between start and finish which just happens to be the maximum allowed between weekly rests for the EU tacho regs so you cannot do a driving shift that is less than 24 hours each side of them
Depending how those shifts and days off fit in with the tacho fixed weeks will depend when any weekly rests have to be taken which in turn will leave open areas for driving