human cannonball:
If the earnings reflected the hours and conditions then the standards of the drivers would improve.
Spot on mate, too many drivers look at the bottom figure on their payslip, count exs as their wages, and don’t take into consideration the hours they had to put in to achieve that figure.
Granted that long hours are the nature of the job, that does not mean that the drivers have to subsidise the hauliers rates put in to win said job and consequently work for a poor hourly rate, resulting in drivers needing to work said long hours to earn a living wage, let alone a good wage.
Bring into the equation the knobs that are HAPPY to work for [zb] all…as long as they drive a Toplinesuperspacemegacabbed lit up like a Christmas tree chromed up motor in return the problem goes on.
These two posters above should be executed for writing this ridiculous slander about hauliers lowering their rates to get the work, then paying their drivers the lowest hourly wage possible.
This would never happen where I’m currently working (I’m and Agency driver doing class 1 on local work). Most of the employed local drivers here start their shift at up to 45 minutes earlier (unpaid) and are already working ‘‘competitively’’ against each other to see who can get the most loads done in the least time, they appear to be ‘working their unpaid breaks’ (by using the 2nd generation digi tacho, ‘‘push the bed button trick’’ when in queues etc) they’re paid low hourly rates and are working ‘flat out’ to get their job done as soon as possible. (It seems to be ‘top dog’ is all about finishing early) and all for £1.25p above the minimum pay rate. They then moan that they are overworked and on low pay, but they can’t seem to see that they have inflicted and created their own carp job.
They are all British citizens, and are actually all good, decent blokes, most are long term (10 years plus) brainwashed company drivers who work their nads off.
Where as I am the ‘slow’ agency driver (on a substantially higher pay rate) who always finishes last, . The management check my time stamped notes and say say they ‘can’t understand’ how it takes me so long (up to two hours longer) to do the same work as their own drivers.
I’m never going to be the fastest driver at getting around as that’d be impossible as I strap every load, no exceptions, and I do wonder if other drivers out there don’t*. I payed a lot of money to get my licence and it’s my livelihood and no way will I knowingly break the law for the sake of a bit of brown nosing. I’d like to think I’m efficient in securing my load quickly and that I can be trusted as a driver that will do my best to preserve the company’s good name and that that will be appreciated. It’s alright being a hero that gets around the fastest, but the one day that driver gets caught cutting corners he’ll soon realise that all that sucking up meant f all cos no manager is gonna go down with him. Also by getting a reputation as a driver that takes a bit longer strapping up to a high standard you aren’t going to be the ideal person to dump on shunting, but you are the ideal person to send out on long runs. In a nutshell everyone has a choice, it’s lazy drivers/stupid drivers/drivers with no back bone that give everyone else a bad name, but if you become good at doing things the right way then you’ll be the best you can be and that’s where I want to be; a professional at what I do.
Disclaimer *this is just a suspicion and I have no way of corroborating this suspicion as I have never seen this occur
I don’t mind immigrants coming to the UK with their families to work.
What I hate is 10 of them living in a house and working for nuffing.
Working man with a family can’t compete with this and it ain’t fair.
As for wages I don’t see what the big deal is.
I ain’t been driving long I clear between £500-600 a week for 5 days put that in a salary calculator it’s in the late 30s for 5 day week.
Where else am I going make that kind of money?
I’ve accepted the lifestyle as a trucker making what I think is v good money for sitting on my parse doing not a lot of work.
What we seem to have seen since September 2014 is a shortage in “increasing capacity” at short notice.
Supermarkets in particular over Christmas were paying premium rates on agency to get the drivers in. Christmas done - did the rates go back down again?
I’ve only had a single cancelled at last minute shift given to me at any supermarket since the start of the year. There doesn’t seem to be any demand at all at present, even though it’s already march.
Parcel yards? - Plenty of work there, but it’s covering sick, leave, and in my case “sudden resignees”. Even that comes to an end sooner or later though.
General Haulage? - There seems to be too many hanger-on full timers who won’t leave because the redundancy package on offer is too low for them. Too many drivers and not enough work leans towards some kind of “consolidation” within the business. This, is already more than 4 years behind me, but perhaps the “voluntary exit” angle is spreading to more and more yards in the greater transport industry?
What about rigid delivery work? - I’ve ruled that out of my personal itinery - so I wouldn’t be aware of an abundance of work in this area if it came up and slapped me in the face - Anyone like to comment who’s currently flat out in the multidrop side?
My observation of agencies at present suggest that our number is something like 40% “averaged age Brit drivers and older” (including myself), 40% immigrant drivers, who tend to me aged 25-40, and the other 20% consisting of “here today gone tomorrow” applicants who won’t last for one reason or another, the main one being “they’re desperate for full time work or none at all”. None is a lot easier request to fulfil at the current time alas, so that’s what they’ll be ending up with.
human cannonball:
If the earnings reflected the hours and conditions then the standards of the drivers would improve.
Spot on mate, too many drivers look at the bottom figure on their payslip, count exs as their wages, and don’t take into consideration the hours they had to put in to achieve that figure.
Granted that long hours are the nature of the job, that does not mean that the drivers have to subsidise the hauliers rates put in to win said job and consequently work for a poor hourly rate, resulting in drivers needing to work said long hours to earn a living wage, let alone a good wage.
Bring into the equation the knobs that are HAPPY to work for [zb] all…as long as they drive a Toplinesuperspacemegacabbed lit up like a Christmas tree chromed up motor in return the problem goes on.
These two posters above should be executed for writing this ridiculous slander about hauliers lowering their rates to get the work, then paying their drivers the lowest hourly wage possible.
This would never happen where I’m currently working (I’m and Agency driver doing class 1 on local work). Most of the employed local drivers here start their shift at up to 45 minutes earlier (unpaid) and are already working ‘‘competitively’’ against each other to see who can get the most loads done in the least time, they appear to be ‘working their unpaid breaks’ (by using the 2nd generation digi tacho, ‘‘push the bed button trick’’ when in queues etc) they’re paid low hourly rates and are working ‘flat out’ to get their job done as soon as possible. (It seems to be ‘top dog’ is all about finishing early) and all for £1.25p above the minimum pay rate. They then moan that they are overworked and on low pay, but they can’t seem to see that they have inflicted and created their own carp job.
They are all British citizens, and are actually all good, decent blokes, most are long term (10 years plus) brainwashed company drivers who work their nads off.
Where as I am the ‘slow’ agency driver (on a substantially higher pay rate) who always finishes last, . The management check my time stamped notes and say say they ‘can’t understand’ how it takes me so long (up to two hours longer) to do the same work as their own drivers.
i think you might find the difference lies in the fact that all the other drivers in the place your in just now have proper full time jobs and show some interest in getting on with the job,whereas you dont,hence you dont have a recognised full time job if your agency as your on a day to day basis with an employment office. if a job came up where you are,then unless the company is desperate,theres absolutely no chance you would be a successfull applicant as you have marked your card as useless in comparison to the ones working there now.it may suit you to work the way you do,and if i was agency id work the same way,and no doubt drag my heels also,but it dosent make it right other than the uk worker mindset ,how much can i get for doing as little as possible for as long as possible,hence the demise of british leyland,miners and all the rest of the union orienated workshy lemmings who became unemployed as their respective industrys failed and closed.
ROG:
Soon know if the is real shortage come January
If loads of LGV jobs are being advertised at that time of year then there is a shortage
Bearing in mind January has been and gone for this year - I think most people will be more bothered about the rest of 2015 first, before worrying about what they’d be doing in January 2016…
Easter is fast approaching for example. I might normally expect to be busy covering family guys on scheduled leave for whole weeks at a time across the Easter school break…
If, for any reason, that doesn’t materialise - I’m in the crapper along with a lot of other agency people who at present don’t have the supermarket work to fall back on at present. It’s unusual for the pick-up to be so late as it appears to have been so far this year…
April 2015 is likely to see increased council tax bills for most people, reduced travel & food expense claims against agency wages, and there’s even a decent wedge being bet on the financial markets upon VAT being jacked up to 25% which would not do PAYE staff any good at all in this business!
Combine that with NO decrease in heating bills, and the drop in fuel prices seemingly halted for the time being (despite Oil heading back below $50 again) - I’d say there’s a lot of uncertainty about the rest of 2015 at present. There’s no sign around here - the so-called “prosperous south east” of this “Economic Upturn” being under way that Osbourne tells us is the case… Are we really going to re-elect the Tories with a majority because we’d rather believe their lies and anyone else’s truths?
human cannonball:
If the earnings reflected the hours and conditions then the standards of the drivers would improve.
Spot on mate, too many drivers look at the bottom figure on their payslip, count exs as their wages, and don’t take into consideration the hours they had to put in to achieve that figure.
Granted that long hours are the nature of the job, that does not mean that the drivers have to subsidise the hauliers rates put in to win said job and consequently work for a poor hourly rate, resulting in drivers needing to work said long hours to earn a living wage, let alone a good wage.
Bring into the equation the knobs that are HAPPY to work for [zb] all…as long as they drive a Toplinesuperspacemegacabbed lit up like a Christmas tree chromed up motor in return the problem goes on.
These two posters above should be executed for writing this ridiculous slander about hauliers lowering their rates to get the work, then paying their drivers the lowest hourly wage possible.
This would never happen where I’m currently working (I’m and Agency driver doing class 1 on local work). Most of the employed local drivers here start their shift at up to 45 minutes earlier (unpaid) and are already working ‘‘competitively’’ against each other to see who can get the most loads done in the least time, they appear to be ‘working their unpaid breaks’ (by using the 2nd generation digi tacho, ‘‘push the bed button trick’’ when in queues etc) they’re paid low hourly rates and are working ‘flat out’ to get their job done as soon as possible. (It seems to be ‘top dog’ is all about finishing early) and all for £1.25p above the minimum pay rate. They then moan that they are overworked and on low pay, but they can’t seem to see that they have inflicted and created their own carp job.
They are all British citizens, and are actually all good, decent blokes, most are long term (10 years plus) brainwashed company drivers who work their nads off.
Where as I am the ‘slow’ agency driver (on a substantially higher pay rate) who always finishes last, . The management check my time stamped notes and say say they ‘can’t understand’ how it takes me so long (up to two hours longer) to do the same work as their own drivers.
i think you might find the difference lies in the fact that all the other drivers in the place your in just now have proper full time jobs and show some interest in getting on with the job,whereas you dont,hence you dont have a recognised full time job if your agency as your on a day to day basis with an employment office. if a job came up where you are,then unless the company is desperate,theres absolutely no chance you would be a successfull applicant as you have marked your card as useless in comparison to the ones working there now.it may suit you to work the way you do,and if i was agency id work the same way,and no doubt drag my heels also,but it dosent make it right other than the uk worker mindset ,how much can i get for doing as little as possible for as long as possible,hence the demise of british leyland,miners and all the rest of the union orienated workshy lemmings who became unemployed as their respective industrys failed and closed.
What an interesting couple of arguments there!
Are we really talking about Full timers and Agency being as different as Male and Female I wonder?
Take two drivers: If one does twice the work in half the time, but moans about it - he’ll get that job forever and ever amen.
The other driver who is a lot fussier - will pop down the road, work for a competitor, and never go sick or screw up - because they are the professional despite being a fusspot. Being prepared to argue the toss and know your own worth - does not make you a useless driver. Perhaps being prepared to screw over all your other drivers by being prepared to work for less does - especially when it involves illegal acts like working one’s breaks, taking breaks in tip queues, and driving more than 48 hours a week EVERY week non-stop!?..
to me they would be 2 completely poles apart ways of earning…full time direct employment is type 1…agency is the exact opposite irrespective of how long you have been with your respective agency.when on agency work the logic is how long can i drag it out for,and how much of a beancounter can i be. someone in fulltime work for a decent employer is more likely to be a bit more hands on with reality and get the job done.fulltime with a tosco type job would be similar attitude to agency beancounting.the way i would look at it is by asking yourself this question,if you personally were running a smallish fleet of trucks,then would you want to employ, eager hands on type drivers who would at least try and wangle things to suit whether it was absolutely 110% by the book legal or otherwise when its not exactly a big deal,or,some tosco type ■■■■ plobber who will drag the day out into oblivion and use any excuse to defect a truck and basically work to rule wherever possible. if it was your own business,then the choice to me would be a no brainer if i was being honest.
Last time I checked nobody is forcing anyone to drive lorries. If you don’t like the wage structure you signed up for wherever you work then feel free to take up employment in another sector.
Low wages have very little to do with EE drivers as they were poor when I started driving in 1972. They have always been poor and they always will be because there never has been a shortage of drivers and despite all the recent predictions, WTD and CPC, their still isn’t a shortage. It is just propaganda put out by driving schools and agencies.
I gave up HGV driving in 1978 and other than a couple of spells of casual driving have never regretted it. I earned more money doing a job I absolutely detested but it bought me a house and allowed me to retire at 55.
I get a good pension and have a good standard of living, something I would not have if I had carried on driving for a living.
Whats wrong with being on break in a queue? Im sat watching dvd’s and eating to me sounds like a break. Places like Celsa in Cardiff you can normally stop for more then a hour i think my boss would question if i had it on ‘other work’ and then took another 45min break outside after tipping.
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked nobody is forcing anyone to drive lorries. If you don’t like the wage structure you signed up for wherever you work then feel free to take up employment in another sector.
So we’ve found a driver that is happy with the old fashioned exploititive boss’s attitude and mantra of ‘‘Well son if you don’t like the way you are paid/treated just…■■■■ off’’ If drivers can not see anything wrong with this we are all ■■■■ ed
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked nobody is forcing anyone to drive lorries. If you don’t like the wage structure you signed up for wherever you work then feel free to take up employment in another sector.
So we’ve found a driver that is happy with the old fashioned exploititive boss’s attitude and mantra of ‘‘Well son if you don’t like the way you are paid/treated just…[zb] off’’ If drivers can not see anything wrong with this we are all [zb] ed
If you feel that you can change things then good luck to you.
dieseldog999:
to me they would be 2 completely poles apart ways of earning…full time direct employment is type 1…agency is the exact opposite irrespective of how long you have been with your respective agency.when on agency work the logic is how long can i drag it out for,and how much of a beancounter can i be. someone in fulltime work for a decent employer is more likely to be a bit more hands on with reality and get the job done.fulltime with a tosco type job would be similar attitude to agency beancounting.the way i would look at it is by asking yourself this question,if you personally were running a smallish fleet of trucks,then would you want to employ, eager hands on type drivers who would at least try and wangle things to suit whether it was absolutely 110% by the book legal or otherwise when its not exactly a big deal,or,some tosco type ■■■■ plobber who will drag the day out into oblivion and use any excuse to defect a truck and basically work to rule wherever possible. if it was your own business,then the choice to me would be a no brainer if i was being honest.
You talk as if you have to either toss it off and drag the job out, or work like some kind of a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ to pressure handed out, and driving illegally as if you are on an endurance test. one option is for lazy ■■■■■■■■ the other is for downright idiots.
There is a happy medium between the two, get the job done at safe but steady pace legally and efficiently . It ain’t an either/or situation.
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked nobody is forcing anyone to drive lorries. If you don’t like the wage structure you signed up for wherever you work then feel free to take up employment in another sector.
So we’ve found a driver that is happy with the old fashioned exploititive boss’s attitude and mantra of ‘‘Well son if you don’t like the way you are paid/treated just…[zb] off’’ If drivers can not see anything wrong with this we are all [zb] ed
If you feel that you can change things then good luck to you.
Cheers mate, and if you are happy to bend over and take it up the arse without any form of resistance good luck to you too…you’ll need it more than me.
BillyHunt:
Last time I checked nobody is forcing anyone to drive lorries. If you don’t like the wage structure you signed up for wherever you work then feel free to take up employment in another sector.
So we’ve found a driver that is happy with the old fashioned exploititive boss’s attitude and mantra of ‘‘Well son if you don’t like the way you are paid/treated just…[zb] off’’ If drivers can not see anything wrong with this we are all [zb] ed
If you feel that you can change things then good luck to you.
Cheers mate, and if you are happy to bend over and take it up the arse without any form of resistance good luck to you too…you’ll need it more than me.
If you read my previous post you will see that I made alternative arrangements to earn a living.
As commonrail said its simple there is no shortage its scaremongering to have more drivers chasing jobs this keeps the wages down as were then back to if u don’t like it there’s plenty of others who want your job as for agency drivers not getting a lot of shifts in certain areas is this because a lot of the supermarkets etc took on more full timers as it was harder to just pick up the phone and order 50 drivers etc at short notice as others have said a lot of elder drivers who were part time agency retired due to dcpc
Fincham:
If you feel you can change things then good luck to you.
If you read my previous post you will see that I made alternative arrangements to earn a living.
Yeh, sorry mate, I was a bit quick to jump there, I thought the ‘good luck’ thing was a sarcastic comment aimed at me, I see now that it was a genuine comment.
As for changing things, I can only speak from my own perspective, I do the job and get through the workload but answer back if I think I am being shafted. I work with a few guys, not all, that tear arse about like there is no tomorrow, we all get paid the same, they are hassled and I am left alone,…do you see my point.
. The management check my time stamped notes and say say they ‘can’t understand’ how it takes me so long (up to two hours longer) to do the same work as their own drivers.
I was a bit quick to jump there, I thought the ‘good luck’ thing was a sarcastic comment aimed at me, I see now that it was a genuine comment.